Erkan12 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 It worked on King Renly, even when Brienne was guarding him. Do you think Melisandre knew that it wouldn't work on the Night King or she (or any other red priestesses) tried that before and they failed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTFanatic Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 She mentions in the show that making a shadow baby is very draining on the King who "fathers" it, and it also takes someone of special blood to do so. I think it wasn't a very well thought out magical plot device to be honest, neither was the three leech curses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figdoni Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Melissandre was so caught up in her interpretation of the prophecies that she wouldn’t have even tried a shadow baby... nothing short of a prophecy foretelling the shadow baby that was promised would have made her consider it methinks. She was convinced that a battle in the north was inevitable because of what she saw in the flames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkan12 Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 7 hours ago, GOTFanatic said: She mentions in the show that making a shadow baby is very draining on the King who "fathers" it, and it also takes someone of special blood to do so. I think it wasn't a very well thought out magical plot device to be honest, neither was the three leech curses. Yeah, but considering this is the Night King, I think it would worth for the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 None of it makes any sense any more. If Mel knew that Arya was going to close blue eyes (meaning the Night King's) why did she bother with Stannis? Why did she bother trying to bring Jon back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deminelle Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, ummester said: None of it makes any sense any more. If Mel knew that Arya was going to close blue eyes (meaning the Night King's) why did she bother with Stannis? Why did she bother trying to bring Jon back? They had to have the boatsex-scene. Then they needed to have Bran act as a family counselor letting Jon know it's not quite right to bang your aunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 39 minutes ago, ummester said: None of it makes any sense any more. If Mel knew that Arya was going to close blue eyes (meaning the Night King's) why did she bother with Stannis? Why did she bother trying to bring Jon back? Because she is fallible. And even a clear prophecy (XYZ will shut brown, green, blue eyes") needs an interpretation. Who do they belong to? Heck, the Good Omens cover this quite nicely (even with extremely accurate prophecies most of them can be interpreted correctly only after the deed happened). At the time she knew Arya will close those eyes. Without context. She was also heavily invested in believing Stannis is the PTWP/AAR and explained all prophecies to fit that. She DID have power of foreseeing the future - she did correctly giude Stannis to the Wall - but she believed he is there because he is the PTWP, not because he went there to save the PTWP. Later she has more visions (presumably) and reinteprets the old ones and the prophecies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Runaway Penguin said: Because she is fallible. And even a clear prophecy (XYZ will shut brown, green, blue eyes") needs an interpretation. Who do they belong to? Heck, the Good Omens cover this quite nicely (even with extremely accurate prophecies most of them can be interpreted correctly only after the deed happened). At the time she knew Arya will close those eyes. Without context. She was also heavily invested in believing Stannis is the PTWP/AAR and explained all prophecies to fit that. She DID have power of foreseeing the future - she did correctly giude Stannis to the Wall - but she believed he is there because he is the PTWP, not because he went there to save the PTWP. Later she has more visions (presumably) and reinteprets the old ones and the prophecies. Meh, it seems like any excuse/interpretation could work if that is the case. A prophecy that can only be interpreted accurately after the fact is not a prophecy, it's hindsight. And, for the record, I don't really have an issue with Arya killing the NK - I have more of an issue with the NK dying without any reasonable explanation for not only his existence but how any of the magic works in the show. Exactly how did that magic in the wall keep things out again? Oh, that's right, it doesn't matter - coz blue dragon shit. Exactly why is the Lord of Light supposed to be trusted as a source of magical power over the Knights King again? I mean, the Knight's King doesn't require little girls burnt at the stake - and I guess you can blame that on Mel's interpretation of what the Lord of Light wants but then if it is all interpretation, then there is nothing divine or magical about Arya killing the NK at all. It's all just random luck - frozen weapon dude made by Asian lady hobbits hangs around for 1000s of years, generating all this mythology, until one a day a bratty assassin who failed at her training stabs him. Great, so glad I invested 10 years of my life invested in this stupid fucking mythology - its all total pretense, there is nothing deep or involved about how the universe is constructed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timm Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, ummester said: Meh, it seems like any excuse/interpretation could work if that is the case. A prophecy that can only be interpreted accurately after the fact is not a prophecy, it's hindsight. And, for the record, I don't really have an issue with Arya killing the NK - I have more of an issue with the NK dying without any reasonable explanation for not only his existence but how any of the magic works in the show. Exactly how did that magic in the wall keep things out again? Oh, that's right, it doesn't matter - coz blue dragon shit. Exactly why is the Lord of Light supposed to be trusted as a source of magical power over the Knights King again? I mean, the Knight's King doesn't require little girls burnt at the stake - and I guess you can blame that on Mel's interpretation of what the Lord of Light wants but then if it is all interpretation, then there is nothing divine or magical about Arya killing the NK at all. It's all just random luck - frozen weapon dude made by Asian lady hobbits hangs around for 1000s of years, generating all this mythology, until one a day a bratty assassin who failed at her training stabs him. Great, so glad I invested 10 years of my life invested in this stupid fucking mythology - its all total pretense, there is nothing deep or involved about how the universe is constructed at all. It's like LOST all over again. They chuck in all this cool stuff and mysteries and everyone watches to find out how on earth they will resolve everything and tie up all the arcs. But of course, they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Timm said: It's like LOST all over again. They chuck in all this cool stuff and mysteries and everyone watches to find out how on earth they will resolve everything and tie up all the arcs. But of course, they don't. Ha - I was smart enough to hive up on lost before it reached the midway point. This show stayed good up until the mid way point, so it duped me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibberish Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 3 hours ago, ummester said: None of it makes any sense any more. If Mel knew that Arya was going to close blue eyes (meaning the Night King's) why did she bother with Stannis? Why did she bother trying to bring Jon back? Mel is a charlatan, she can do some magic and sees some visions but she doesn't know how, or what the visions really mean, just like Thoros. She only " knew" it was going to be Arya when she sees her at Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 27 minutes ago, ummester said: Meh, it seems like any excuse/interpretation could work if that is the case. A prophecy that can only be interpreted accurately after the fact is not a prophecy, it's hindsight. But that's the friggin' point of prophecies and people trying to make them happen or to prevent them Prohphecies are not a manual. The visions are not specific and are way too easy to misinterpret. Not least because such prophecy would be very bad from narrative standpoint. Heck, take the Witch King in LoTR. A prophecy tells no living man can defeat him. He is defeated by a halfling and a woman. So yes, out of the various interpretations there was one that really works - but did anyone interpret it accurately before the event? Even Gandalf was surprised. Does it make the prophecy hindsight? No, the future was predicted - nobody managed to interpret it accurately. Same thing here. Prophecies simply do not work if you try to brute force your way into them. Melissandre tried few times until she realised - as the event was unfolding - what was she seeing all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaretto Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Even in a land of magic, I still find this ability of hers hard to take. It's odd that she never tried it again. This and Arya shapeshifting into Walder Frey for days would preferably have been left on the cutting room floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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