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Han Snow

Conclusion of the tale - Cersei as the ultimate Villain - problems galore.

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I would say there is still a chance for a twist, not for the Dany and Jon side, but at the Cersei and Euron side, Cersei was never any good in a war time, so what can you do with her? Is she going to blow another place in the KL? As others said, all she can do sit and wait until her army defeats Dany's army.

Euron can take the stage in here, instead of being Cersei's puppet, why not kill Cersei and take the Iron Throne for himself?

Euron would be a better villain, at least someone who you can use in the battles unlike Cersei. And I think that's why they killed Theon, to prevent a confrontation between Euron and Theon instead leaving it to Jon.

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9 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

I would say there is still a chance for a twist, not for the Dany and Jon side, but at the Cersei and Euron side, Cersei was never any good in a war time, so what can you do with her? Is she going to blow another place in the KL? As others said, all she can do sit and wait until her army defeats Dany's army.

Euron can take the stage in here, instead of being Cersei's puppet, why not kill Cersei and take the Iron Throne for himself?

Euron would be a better villain, at least someone who you can use in the battles unlike Cersei. And I think that's why they killed Theon, to prevent a confrontation between Euron and Theon instead leaving it to Jon.

It is still anticlimatic as all hell in the overall structure of the story. Cleaning up loose ends after the battle for Life itself could have been an interesting epilogue taking place in the second part of the last episode.

Does anyone truly cares who sits in the Iron Throne? I mean, they could have Cersei WIN in the end, and it would be just meh after what they did in episode 3. It's just bad writing. Simply that.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Han Snow said:

It is still anticlimatic as all hell in the overall structure of the story. Cleaning up loose ends after the battle for Life itself could have been an interesting epilogue taking place in the second part of the last episode.

Does anyone truly cares who sits in the Iron Throne? I mean, they could have Cersei WIN in the end, and it would be just meh after what they did in episode 3. It's just bad writing. Simply that.

It was foreshadowed in that meeting when Jon said he will join Dany after the great war if they win. Why would they bother with that drama if it's not important who sits in the Iron Throne? Of course it's important.

There is no guarantee that they will not face a similar supernatural threat like this again, and when that happens a weak kingdom is doomed to lose.

If we go by that logic, Jon should've bent the knee and join House Bolton, after all it's not important that who holds the North. It was important because they knew they couldn't defeat the Night King with Ramsay Bolton leading them. It's the same with Cersei.

But I understand they could switch the order, like first 3 episode is defeating Cersei and Euron, then the last 3 episode is defeating the Night King and his zombies. After all, Night King was actually powerful enough to resist Dany's Dragons and he even had a zombie Dragon.

If they decided to do this way, then they better give us even better action scenes and battles than the one with the Night King.

Edited by Erkan12

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The only way I can see this "improved" is to have Cersei dealt with in Episodes 4 and first half of episode 5 and then to have one and a half episode of Dance of Dragons. 

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19 minutes ago, Risto said:

The only way I can see this "improved" is to have Cersei dealt with in Episodes 4 and first half of episode 5 and then to have one and a half episode of Dance of Dragons. 

I more or less agree.

It seems to me that most of the next episode will deal with some politics, gathering up Dany's remaining "army" and trying to get new allies (Yara's Ironborn and whatever is left in the Vale, and some of the other lords of Westeros that we somehow haven't heard of for quite some time now). I'm assuming towards the end they might already reach KL or at the very least Dragonstone, assuming Euron hasn't claimed it for Cersei. Hopefully she will be defeated during ep5, perhaps by both Lannister bros (with Jaime delivering the last "blow" and dying as well). If this scene happens, hopefully it will be given its own space and time instead of being a quick stabby-stabby like we just saw with the NK. The dialogue has the potential to be one of the most powerful in the whole series. Clegane-bowl could be happening sort of parallel to this scene, assuming that the Hound plays a key role in getting Jaime (and Tyrion) to Cersei. Meanwhile, Dany, Jon and their forces deal with Euron and the Lannister army. They are initially outnumbered just like during their last battle, but there could be another, ah, shocking twist if the Golden Company turns their cloaks to favor the Targaryen heir (aka Jon, which would give Dany even more reason to see him as a threat and turn against him in the final act).

The end of ep5 could see Dany turning on Jon. Ep6 would see the Dance, and hopefully a more impressive dragon-on-dragon battle than the last episode. I'm assuming Dany will perish - not because I don't like the character, I just think that's where her story should be going. 

Since the NK was defeated the way he was, I'm still hoping that D&D might actually redeem themselves by revealing that actually there is one more thing that needs to be done in order to prevent the NK from rising again. Hopefully that will include Bran and make him finally appear useful. That will probably remain a short subplot and happen during episode 5 or 6.

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Sorry but I’m glad It is turning out like this.

 

Cersei is the most well developed villain. 

 

It also symbolises that amongst monsters walking around - the worst threat is still a human 

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5 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

Sorry but I’m glad It is turning out like this.

 

Cersei is the most well developed villain. 

 

It also symbolises that amongst monsters walking around - the worst threat is still a human 

I am glad the night king is done too. I’m also glad I have no idea how this ends.  

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

Sorry but I’m glad It is turning out like this.

 

Cersei is the most well developed villain. 

 

It also symbolises that amongst monsters walking around - the worst threat is still a human 

Well, they created the Night King from a human and the reason was to use it against the human kind.

It's basically the same. Both Aerys and Cersei was fine at the beginning, the certain events turned them into crazy, just like Night King turned into a killing machine while he was a human at the beginning.

Edited by Erkan12

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Posted (edited)

I wouldn't mind Cersei being the final villain if it were in someway earned. She has made a series of idiotic decisions and somehow benefited from a seemingly never ending stream of coincidences that weakened her opponents. 

Also, who is she even ruling at this point? Not the North, the Vale, Dorne, the Iron Islands or Dragonstone. With the Freys gone, presumably she has lost the Riverlands as well. Are the majority of the Reach following her? If so why- considering she murdered their leaders and stole their money? Didn't she also lose Casterly Rock to the Unsullied- I've lost track. Even the people of King's Landing should logically hate her after she murdered their religious leaders and the popular Tyrells. Even her army is almost entirely made up of foreigners. They could just lay siege to King's Landing with the dragons and that would be that. 

Edited by Amaretto

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1 hour ago, Amaretto said:

I wouldn't mind Cersei being the final villain if it were in someway earned. She has made a series of idiotic decisions and somehow benefited from a seemingly never ending stream of coincidences that weakened her opponents. 

Also, who is she even ruling at this point? Not the North, the Vale, Dorne, the Iron Islands or Dragonstone. With the Freys gone, presumably she has lost the Riverlands as well. Are the majority of the Reach following her? If so why- considering she murdered their leaders and stole their money? Didn't she also lose Casterly Rock to the Unsullied- I've lost track. Even the people of King's Landing should logically hate her after she murdered their religious leaders and the popular Tyrells. Even her army is almost entirely made up of foreigners. They could just lay siege to King's Landing with the dragons and that would be that. 

Cersei is literally Aerys. She rules with fear. Remember the look on the people’s face during her coronation? 

 

The commonfolk probably are too scared to mess with her, knowing that wildfire is possibly still planted throughout the city 

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2 hours ago, Amaretto said:

I wouldn't mind Cersei being the final villain if it were in someway earned. She has made a series of idiotic decisions and somehow benefited from a seemingly never ending stream of coincidences that weakened her opponents. 

Also, who is she even ruling at this point? Not the North, the Vale, Dorne, the Iron Islands or Dragonstone. With the Freys gone, presumably she has lost the Riverlands as well. Are the majority of the Reach following her? If so why- considering she murdered their leaders and stole their money? Didn't she also lose Casterly Rock to the Unsullied- I've lost track. Even the people of King's Landing should logically hate her after she murdered their religious leaders and the popular Tyrells. Even her army is almost entirely made up of foreigners. They could just lay siege to King's Landing with the dragons and that would be that. 

Agreed 100%. Doesn’t feel earned. 

1 hour ago, Kaguya said:

Cersei is literally Aerys. She rules with fear. Remember the look on the people’s face during her coronation? 

 

The commonfolk probably are too scared to mess with her, knowing that wildfire is possibly still planted throughout the city 

Fear can be an effective deterrent to an uprising. But there are stark differences between Aerys’ reign and Cersei’s.

The majority of Aerys’ reign was peaceful and prosperous. He had hundreds of years of Targaryen dynasty cementing his rule. He wasn’t despised since day one. Cersei can’t claim any of these things. She’s fear and fear alone. She has no allies in Westeros outside of the Lannister army. Aerys was only fear at the end, and even then he had the willing support of some houses until the bitter end. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, UnViserion said:

Agreed 100%. Doesn’t feel earned. 

Fear can be an effective deterrent to an uprising. But there are stark differences between Aerys’ reign and Cersei’s.

The majority of Aerys’ reign was peaceful and prosperous. He had hundreds of years of Targaryen dynasty cementing his rule. He wasn’t despised since day one. Cersei can’t claim any of these things. She’s fear and fear alone. She has no allies in Westeros outside of the Lannister army. Aerys was only fear at the end, and even then he had the willing support of some houses until the bitter end. 

Still. If you were among the common folk and you saw the sept explosion. Would you try and rebel or submit and hope you’re not next? 

Edited by Kaguya

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16 hours ago, Essan said:

It is called A Game of Thrones.  

 

13 hours ago, Erkan12 said:

It's Game of Thrones, not Walking Dead after all.

Yeah, but we want A Song of Ice and Fire. Maybe it's not fair to want a book themed resolution to a Hollywood show, but that's the problem. By all means, keep enjoying it, but please don't throw your disdain in our faces. We're still grieving for the lost potential.

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12 hours ago, Erkan12 said:

Eh, I don't think it will be that easy :D

First of all, Saruman lost almost all of his army after the Sauron's defeat, he had only 100 ruffians garbage at Shire, a place that almost no one cares about.

While Cersei has still Golden Company (20.000 men strong) + Euron's fleet (1.000 ships) + remaining Lannister forces (I am guessing that at least 2.000 men or more) and holding the Iron Throne and the city of King's Landing at this point after the Night King's defeat.

That LotR afterward story was so unimportant that Peter Jackson didn't even care to show it to the viewers.

While we still have 3 episodes left for Game of Thrones.

It wasn't uniportant. It was extremely important to finish all hobbit's character arcs.

It just did not sound cinematic enough and would require some time otherwise spent on long takes of our heroes staring or brooding :D

 

Then again I feel the GoT is set closer to Babylon 5. There, after concluding the Shadows war in a rather surprising fashion (not defeating the Shadows, but publicly shaming them and the Vorlons as the failures they were)... Rest of the Season 4 was spent settling down "human affairs" and going against the Earth government and its powerful military, finishing with the bad guy politician trying to immolate Earth when he failed to stop the heroes. Kinda sounds like Cersei and Wildfire come to think of it...

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I can see something similar happen in the books. But I think the final villain will be Euron instead of Cersei , book Euron is a much bigger deal than his show counterpart , imo using Euron as the final villain in the books makes more sense than Cersei. 

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Don't really think so. It would be same as having a "sudden savior ex machina" - the final conclusion should rest mostly on the characters/forces that were there since the beginning.

The Episode 1 involved the Others and the Lannisters as opponents. Others were dealt with and Cersei is the last Lannister standing on the original side.

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23 hours ago, Essan said:

It is called A Game of Thrones.   Not The Return of the King.    So I am not disappointed to see we're not getting the generic fantasy story - about the rise of a hero who against all odds saves the world, the end - that GRRM has always made clear he is not writing.  

It's worth re-reading GRRM's Rolling Stone interview from 2014.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/george-r-r-martin-the-rolling-stone-interview-242487/

Actually this is very much following the structure of the Return of the King. We have just seen the defeat of Sauron. Now comes the Scouring of the Shire

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17 hours ago, Kaguya said:

Sorry but I’m glad It is turning out like this.

 

Cersei is the most well developed villain. 

 

It also symbolises that amongst monsters walking around - the worst threat is still a human 

Do you really think that of Cersei?  As a viewer, I find her not very smart, reliably cruel, and not all that successful.  I mean, the only way she can win is to kill you.  She is not going to outsmart you, not going to out-policy you, and not going to beat you on the battle ground.  There is nothing clever or smart or flashy about her and I don't think her skills travel well.  In the way that viewers got a bit tired of Ramsay's endless bullying, I feel that way about Cersei.  I actually thought the death of magic and fantasy and the NK was a fitting big and final bad.  Cersei is the tedious human who stinks at being human.

I do agree that we are down to human level cruelty and intolerability.  However, with climate change in our faces, icebergs sliding into the oceans, idiot political leaders worldwide, and global stress, do we need any more of this as it has already crept into our daily lives?  I for one would be perfectly happy with dragons and enchanted swords, and heroes unexpectedly coming in to save us.

*****************************************
Where have all the good men gone

And where are all the gods?
Where's the streetwise Hercules to fight the rising odds?
Isn't there a white knight upon a fiery steed?

Bonnie Tyler

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Actually this is very much following the structure of the Return of the King. We have just seen the defeat of Sauron. Now comes the Scouring of the Shire

No one important died in the scouring of the shire.  So, unless you think that no one important is going to die in the back half of the final season, then as a parallel, it doesn't really fit.  Cersei isn't portrayed as a washed up evil doer getting a last dig in, she's got a fresh army, a mad scientist, a zombie warrior,  and several dragon killing machines.  I expect the death toll fighting her will be higher than fighting the Night King, so it would be like if Frodo or Sam or Aegon died cleaning up the Shire.

Edited by Cas Stark

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