Rhienne Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I feel like I am really missing something about the value of riding dragons into battle. As far as I can tell, Jon and Dany have no way of communicating with the dragons or directing them. We hear Dany shout 'Drakarys' once, but beyond that they don't seem to direct them by voice (and wouldn't be heard in the storm/above the noise of battle anyway), and they don't use any kind of reigns of other riding equipment so I don't see how else they would do it. It also seems to be a massive liability to the dragons having a very vulnerable human riding on their back - surely it must limit the kind of aerobatics they can pull, and I really don't understanding how Jon survived the mauling by Viserion. Do the dragons not have enough innate intelligence to roast a few wights with fire on their own!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madarjeen Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Riding a dragon is great for quick travel, but I agree it doesn't make sense in battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 They show them directing the dragons in flight, so yes they do control them. Jon dives with his dragon to the waterfall last episode Dany sees this and follows, then this episode they rise up in the clouds, hover, dive back again trying to get the NK. The dragons if let to their own wouldn't do these things. If you don't think directing dragon fire where it's needed, or being able to see that a Wight is throwing an ice spear up and try to avoid it is important then I guess we will disagree. The dragons are not human level intelligent, or mind linked, they are dragons, wild animals to a degree. Remember them roasting and eating that child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, Madarjeen said: Riding a dragon is great for quick travel, but I agree it doesn't make sense in battle. Westeros was conquered by dragon riders, but I guess they don't make sense in battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madarjeen Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 52 minutes ago, dbunting said: Westeros was conquered by dragon riders, but I guess they don't make sense in battle. Well I suppose it depends on many things whether it's relevant or not to ride the dragons. The dragon riders who conquered Westeros probably trained better than Daenerys and Jon (granted, Daenerys does have some training), which would make up for the liability of making yourself vulnerable. Plus, these dragons riders didn't fight other dragon riders. On the specific matter of the battle of Winterfell, maybe one dragon rider and one assisted dragon with no rider would have been a more sensible strategy. Or maybe they didn't need riders at all when it came to fighting Viseryon. Idk, I think Rhienne does have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, Madarjeen said: Well I suppose it depends on many things whether it's relevant or not to ride the dragons. The dragon riders who conquered Westeros probably trained better than Daenerys and Jon (granted, Daenerys does have some training), which would make up for the liability of making yourself vulnerable. Plus, these dragons riders didn't fight other dragon riders. On the specific matter of the battle of Winterfell, maybe one dragon rider and one assisted dragon with no rider would have been a more sensible strategy. Or maybe they didn't need riders at all when it came to fighting Viseryon. Idk, I think Rhienne does have a point. On the Dragons vs dragons point, they did battle other dragons later, several times in Westeros history with riders on them. Last point, When Dany went to save them north of the wall she lost a dragon that wasn't ridden. When he threw a spear at her dragon she steered drogon away from it, saving it. The dragons aren't all knowing, they have to be steered and or told what to do. They do have a bond but it's not like a mind meld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerson Luiz Godinho Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 7 hours ago, Rhienne said: I feel like I am really missing something about the value of riding dragons into battle. As far as I can tell, Jon and Dany have no way of communicating with the dragons or directing them. We hear Dany shout 'Drakarys' once, but beyond that they don't seem to direct them by voice (and wouldn't be heard in the storm/above the noise of battle anyway), and they don't use any kind of reigns of other riding equipment so I don't see how else they would do it. It also seems to be a massive liability to the dragons having a very vulnerable human riding on their back - surely it must limit the kind of aerobatics they can pull, and I really don't understanding how Jon survived the mauling by Viserion. Do the dragons not have enough innate intelligence to roast a few wights with fire on their own!? there was a king of the reach who tought so aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinscS2 Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I was under the impression that a dragon with a rider performs much better than a dragon without one, and it seems that way as well. Makes sense and would hardly make GoT the only fictitious world where this is the case. It's the same in Warhammer for instance. Dragons are smart, but they're not that smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Tytosson Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 53 minutes ago, Emerson Luiz Godinho said: there was a king of the reach who tought so aswell And thus ended House Gardner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loge Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 In the books, dragons are very effective. You can burn down entire armies(field of fire) and destroy castles (Harrenhal). On the show, not so much. The showrunners have no idea what to do with them. They used un-Viserion to bring down the Wall, but that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I believe there was a line cut from just after Jon's first dragon ride. "He seemed to know where I wanted to go" I'm imagining it like a low level warging - like how the Direwolves are connected to their Starks and take on their personalities even if the Starks don't realize or understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Maybe I am just imagining this but I swear I remember seeing them "steer" with the spikes they are holding. Like they move them to a direction and lean their bodies and that's what tells the dragons where to go? Could totally be wrong on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loverofcats Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 17 hours ago, Loge said: In the books, dragons are very effective. You can burn down entire armies(field of fire) and destroy castles (Harrenhal). On the show, not so much. The showrunners have no idea what to do with them. They used un-Viserion to bring down the Wall, but that's about it. Look again at season 7 ep.4 The Spoils of War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Kitten Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 hour ago, dbunting said: [...]Like they move them to a direction and lean their bodies and that's what tells the dragons where to go? [...] That's exactly how riding works. Even riding horses in RL. You don't just pull the reins and your horse goes that way. Working with your bodyweight is the biggest part of riding. So you're not wrong at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hedge of Hog Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 what gets me, is that no one has questioned jon about his ability to ride dragons! not even talked about to him it - perhaps this will come - I hope so, but everything that was special about jon has been completely neglected, with the exception of the reveal. I guess the WW/Nk was just a plot device to stop dany/jon talking about it/resolving stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Purple Kitten said: That's exactly how riding works. Even riding horses in RL. You don't just pull the reins and your horse goes that way. Working with your bodyweight is the biggest part of riding. So you're not wrong at all! True, but how effective is that when the dragons barely feel your weight at all? I'm not saying it's not a component, but think about Balerion who is enormous - much bigger than the show dragons, who are quite large as it is. Would he even notice that? I honestly think the largest component is an affinity somehow with the dragon. Otherwise why do dragons only accept one rider at a time? Why did Targs try to bond eggs to their children by putting them in their cradles? Then again, this isn't something the show has explored. Drogon has no problem being an airbus for the Wight Hunters. Granted, Dany was driving, so maybe that's the key there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loge Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 In the books it's actually a plot point that Dany can't control her dragons. We don't know what the solution will be but there's almost certainly some kind of magic involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 8 hours ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said: what gets me, is that no one has questioned jon about his ability to ride dragons! not even talked about to him it - perhaps this will come - I hope so, but everything that was special about jon has been completely neglected, with the exception of the reveal. I guess the WW/Nk was just a plot device to stop dany/jon talking about it/resolving stuff. Don't hold your breath. Nobody talks to anybody about anything. Like the strategy for that battle, for example, or who was in command, if anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#teamNightking Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 6 hours ago, Gertrude said: I honestly think the largest component is an affinity somehow with the dragon. Otherwise why do dragons only accept one rider at a time? Why did Targs try to bond eggs to their children by putting them in their cradles? I think the rider and dragon clearly share some kind of psychic bond like a lesser form of warging. But we know nothing about it because it's apparently deemed unimportant by the show runners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 In the books the old dragon rider had "saddles" which allowed a rider to be able to do more then hold on. I think that it's important when it comes to noticing things like scorpions and also what to actually burn. Dragons don't recognize what army belongs to who and such. Think of it this way. The dragon with a rider is a gun and the dragon without a rider is a bomb that goes off randomly. They both kill and destroy but you decide what they kill and can use it to your benefit. Although they rode into battle wearing armor not regular clothes. So unless and arrow hit them in the eye slit they were all but invincible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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