Let's speculate about Illyrio's chests

[rotting sea cow]

I haven't seen a discussion about so here we go

When Tyrion and Illyrio meet Duck and Haldon, Illyrio gives six chests to them

Quote

The man called Haldon studied Tyrion with cool grey eyes before turning back to Illyrio. "You have some chests for us?"

....

"How fares our lad?" asked Illyrio as the chests were being secured. Tyrion counted six, oaken chests with iron hasps. Duck shifted them easily enough, hoisting them on one shoulder.

....

"There is a gift for the boy in one of the chests. Some candied ginger. He was always fond of it."

Tyrion II, ADWD

First confirmed item: Candied ginger

Later

Quote

"Those chests we brought you," he said as they were chewing. "Gold for the Golden Company, I thought at first, until I saw Ser Rolly hoist a chest onto one shoulder. If it were full of coin, he could never have lifted it so easily."

"It's just armor," said Duck, with a shrug.

"Clothing as well," Haldon broke in. "Court clothes, for all our party. Fine woolens, velvets, silken cloaks. One does not come before a queen looking shabby … nor empty-handed. The magister has been kind enough to provide us with suitable gifts." - Tyrion III

So, according to Haldon and Duck, the chests contain armor, proper court clothing and gifts for Daenerys (more on that later)

The clothing

Quote

One of Illyrio's chests had been packed with a child's clothing, musty but well made. Septa Lemore had slit each garment apart, then sewn them back together, joining half of this to half of that to fashion a crude motley. Griff had even insisted that Tyrion help with the cutting and sewing. No doubt he meant for it to be humbling, but Tyrion enjoyed the needlework. - Tyrion IV, ADWD

So, the clothes meant for Tyrion were from some child and they sewed in the form of a motley. But also:

Quote

When the lad emerged from the cabin with Lemore by his side, Griff looked him over carefully from head to heel. The prince wore sword and dagger, black boots polished to a high sheen, a black cloak lined with blood-red silk. With his hair washed and cut and freshly dyed a deep, dark blue, his eyes looked blue as well. At his throat he wore three huge square-cut rubies on a chain of black iron, a gift from Magister Illyrio. Red and black. Dragon colors. That was good. "You look a proper prince," he told the boy. "Your father would be proud if he could see you." - The Lost Lord

So, also high quality clothes for Aegon and even jewels

Quote

Haldon donned a hooded cloak, and Tyrion shed his homemade motley for something drab and grey. Griff allowed them each a purse of silver from Illyrio's chests. "To loosen tongues." - Tyrion VI

So, in the end there was some coin in the chests. They used that money to bet with Qavos and get some more reliable info re Daenerys.

Finally

Quote

When they were gone, Griff turned to the Halfmaester. "Ride back to the Shy Maid and return with Lady Lemore and Ser Rolly. We'll need Illyrio's chests as well. All the coin, and the armor.  - The Lost Lord

Confirmed items

- Candied ginger

- Clown clothes for Tyrion

- A chain of rubies for Aegon as well as fine clothes

- Very likely, fine clothes for everyone as well as armor

- Travel money to cover any eventuality, like hiring guards, buy horses or passage in another ship, bribe some lesser officials (the big fish is bribed by Illyrion himself), etc. Not enough to hire a free company.

What else?

There is mention of gifts for Daenerys, what are those.

Well, the first "gift" is that his "nephew", the last of his family is alive. The second is that a professional army has been hired to help them to conquest the IT. But I think there are other presents.

- One can be some extra dragon eggs, which (in Illyrio's mind) can be hatched as easily as the one he gave to her for first time.

- A crown. Which one? I don't know which crown Aegon VI will use but I'm sure that Illyrio recovered Rhaella's crown for Dany, which should have been relatively easy for him. Dany would have been truly grateful for that in case Aegon and Dany met as planned but now, it is probably that Aegon will give that crown to Arianne, adding insult to the injury.

[Euron III Greyjoy]

I like the idea that Blackfyre is in one of the chests. Though I don't know whether that would be a good thing or a bad thing. On one hand, he'd ride into Westeros as a savior wielding the sword of the conqueror, but on the other hand, the last few times that sword has been used, it was in the hands of House Blackfyre. 

[Moiraine Sedai]

Rhaella's crown was most likely melted down years ago.  Regardless, Daenerys already has the most convincing symbols of power and Targaryens royalty, HER dragons.  Gifts no matter how lavish just cannot compare.  What they meant to do is to avoid Aegon coming to Daenerys as a beggar.  His impulsivity and temper got the better of him and he comes to Westeros depending on handouts. 

[rotting sea cow]

4 minutes ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

I like the idea that Blackfyre is in one of the chests. Though I don't know whether that would be a good thing or a bad thing. On one hand, he'd ride into Westeros as a savior wielding the sword of the conqueror, but on the other hand, the last few times that sword has been used, it was in the hands of House Blackfyre. 

I forgot about Blackfyre! Yeah, that too.

4 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Rhaella's crown was most likely melted down years ago.  Regardless, Daenerys already has the most convincing symbols of power and Targaryens royalty, HER dragons.  Gifts no matter how lavish just cannot compare.  What they meant to do is to avoid Aegon coming to Daenerys as a beggar.  His impulsivity and temper got the better of him and he comes to Westeros depending on handouts. 

The point of Rhaella's crown is not it's a symbol of power, but a valuable possession for Dany. She herself remembers that Viserys started to go mad when she sold his mother's crown. Now, imagine what Dany is going to think and do when she finds another woman wearing that crown.

[CAllDSmith]

1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

The prince wore sword and dagger, black boots polished to a high sheen, a black cloak lined with blood-red silk.

This provides more hints for Illyrio's motivations and reach. That blood-red silk sounds a lot like the silk that was used to mend Mance's cloak. That would put proof to the idea that he has had business ventures in Asshai like he claimed the dragons were from. 

 

1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

- One can be some extra dragon eggs, which (in Illyrio's mind) can be hatched as easily as the one he gave to her for first time.

I doubt there being eggs unless there's a big revelation that is counter to the hints in F&B. I think that ,while leaving out Qarth has drawn a lot of  attention, there's a good bit of recent history of the Free Cities that we have been denied. We know that Pentos lost to Braavos in a war that made Pentos essentially a client state of Braavos, but we don't know when for sure this happened. We also don't know the ages of Illyrio and Varys. This is really important considering how much their plans depend on the context they grew up in.  

 

1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

- A crown. Which one? I don't know which crown Aegon VI will use but I'm sure that Illyrio recovered Rhaella's crown for Dany, which should have been relatively easy for him. Dany would have been truly grateful for that in case Aegon and Dany met as planned but now, it is probably that Aegon will give that crown to Arianne, adding insult to the injury.

This seems obvious to me that Rhaella's crown is in there, but also Aegon needs a crown. Like say, Jaehaerys I's crown sold to some Braavosi ages ago? 

Illyrio really needs and audit, but there's another entity that needs an audit as well. Daenaerys herself. Khal Drogo was well near the top of the Fiction 500 even before he married Dany. (Considering the fact that the Iron Bank has invented many of the staples of medieval and modern banking and that these ideas have spread to Oldtown and the other Free Cities I think we'll find that they've also invented the personal capital loan.) Drogo's property is now Dany's property, which includes his manse in Pentos, his palace in Vaes Dothrak, and the other things Free Cities have given him, because she's a little girl and ignorant in the ways of the world she doesn't even understand how wealthy she became hatching those dragons. She just needs to press her claims in order to have enough money to make some pretty big business decisions. 

I would also like to put forward three more suggestions. 

1. There's dragonbone in those chests. Illyrio is explicitly stated from day one to be a dealer in dragonbone. it would make perfect sense that he would give Aegon or Dany dragonbone weapons or other items (whips, horns, jewelry etc.) 

2.The armor isn't normal armor. Crow's Eye really only has two options for where he came across his Valyrian steel either he actually found some way to get onto Valyria and do some searching or the Iron Bank had it. If it's possible to obtain Valyrian steel armor we can assume that Illyrio would be the person to be able to get it. 

3. Books. GRRM has mentioned that Dany would be not having many problems if she had read Yandel's work. Illyrio's biggest mistake so far has been keeping Dany in the dark and only sending Belwas and Barristan to her. He obviously couldn't have come himself but he should have known to send her some kind of adviser. He's now correcting that mistake, sending the next best thing. Letters and books explaining his plans, educating Dany about the terrain and helping her know how best to use that terrain. For all the impact Dany is having, she's really just floundering in the dark. Part of her and Aegon's training would need to be knowing the principal figures in the politics in the free cities and who actually rules. Illyrio knows that Dany is freeing slaves, which means Illyrio NEEDS her to know that that's hurting him. 

[Megorova]

6 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Quote

"There is a gift for the boy in one of the chests. Some candied ginger. He was always fond of it."

Tyrion II, ADWD

First confirmed item: Candied ginger

I think that "candied ginger" is a metaphor for Blackfyre sword. The boy was always fond of that sword, so Illyrio is giving it to him. And the gift for Dany could be Dark Sister.

Basis for this theory, can of worms tinfoil:

Spoiler

Blackfyre sword could have been stolen by Blackfyres from Summerhall, together with Jenny of Oldstones, that later was impregnated by the last Blackfyre, and in 260 AC gave birth to Varys, grandson of the Ghost of High Heart/Rohanne Webber-Lannister. The kidnapping was arranged by Shiera Seastar, and the purpose of it was to give to Blackfyres magically potent blood, such as blood of Rohanne's descendant. Rohanne is a witch, and a very powerfull prophet, so her blood is as good as blood of dragonseeds. So in combination with blood of Blackfyres it was supposed to produce the Promised Prince (or his ancestors). Though, probably, Shiera had an agreement with Daemon, but Daemon was killed by Maelys, who later had broken an agreement that Blackfyres had with Shiera. After Maelys' death, his twin-children (Varys and Serra / parallel to Aerys and Rhaella) were sold into slavery by people of Golden Company, or by Maelys' comrades from the Band of Nine (or something like that).

And Dark Sister was taken by Shiera from Bloodraven, after she used magic on him, and binded him to the Weirwood tree in that cave with the Children. She took that sword with her to Essos, and gave it as a gift to Blackfyres, to be able to negotiate with them a shared project - she needed from them a dragonblood/seed, and in exchange for helping her to fulfill the prophecy about the Promised Prince, she promised to them Iron Throne, in some foreseeable future (Targaryen crown for Daemon's/or Maelys' grandson, child of Varys and Serra). Though the children were separated, later Varys got gelded, and Serra married with Illyrio and then died. But there was two more branches with the same witch+dragon bloodline, and thus Shiera went after both of them.

Johanna Swann the Black Swan of Lys had three daughters. One of them was Larra Rogare; the other was ancestor of Rohanne of Tyrosh, future wife of Daemon I Blackfyre; and the third one married back into House Swann, and one of her descendants is Lady Jeyne Swann/Septa Lemore/mother of fAegon (the father is Barristan Selmy, grandson of Aenys Blackfyre and great-nephew of Duncan the Tall, son of Daemon I Blackfyre and Daenerys Targaryen).

Serenei of Lys was mother of Shiera Seastar, and also she used to be Larra Rogare. One of two remaining magical bloodlines were descendants of Larra, such as Aerys and Rhaella, and their children, and grandchildren (only one for now - Rhaego). And the other one was line of House Swann. So Varys made an agreement with Shiera, that she will fulfill her promise, given to Daemon Blackfyre, and will give to Varys the Prince that was Promised, that will become King of 7K. So she was supposed to cut off possibility of the Promised Prince being produced from Larra's side, and to guarantee that he will be born on Swann-side. So Varys and Shiera hired Kingswood Brotherhood, that went after two targets - Rhaegar's fiancee, Elia Martell, and grandson of Aenys Blackfyre, Barristan Selmy (because he was a carrier of dragon-genes from the same line (as Rhaegar and Varys) of Johanna Swann-Larra Rogare-Aegon IV). Shiera casted some sort of magic on Ulmer, and when he kissed Princess Elia, she became nearly infertile. Besides kissing her, Ulmer also stole from Elia her jewels and chest of golden dragons <- jewels and dragons is a metaphor for children. Then Shiera glamoured herself to look like a septa, and escorted Lady Jeyne Swann thru Kingswood, where they were (not for real) assaulted by Kingswood Brotherhood, and saved by Barristan Selmy. Then septa/Shiera gave a love potion to Barristan, and Jeyne Swann seduced him. Later Jeyne went to Essos, where she gave birth to fAegon. First five years after his birth, they were living in Illyrio's mansion. And while fAegon was growing up there, he was occasionally allowed to play with Blackfyre sword. So that's the real meaning of candied ginger. Because if it wasn't something meaningful and important, then GRRM wouldn't have wrote about it.

Call it fanfiction, but there is a possibility, that it could be correct.

[Karneol]

I could imagine a lot of letters

Letters for friends of Illyrio, for people who get money from Illyrio and people who get blackmailed by Illyrio. Something like don't "mess up with them or I will take you off my payroll". 

Letters for Dany: "Hey your last husband is dead but do not worry I brought you a new one" 

Letters for Belwas and the other ones who look after Dany with new instructions.

This is the middle age: Cellphones are not invented and trustworthy messangers for such dangerous letzers are a rariety

[Hugorfonics]

6 hours ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

I like the idea that Blackfyre is in one of the chests. Though I don't know whether that would be a good thing or a bad thing. On one hand, he'd ride into Westeros as a savior wielding the sword of the conqueror, but on the other hand, the last few times that sword has been used, it was in the hands of House Blackfyre. 

Wow. Never thought of that. Your totally right.

I mean whos really mad at the black dragon?  Only the Targaryens were and theyre gone (except...) As far as these lords and such theyre mostly old history whos names are not Frey. No reason to hate. After all, its a good looking sword.

Im curious about Young Griff. Changing stories from a Rhaegars baby switcheroo to some Blackfrye baby would set its toll (Barri capped the last male Fyre, so maybe his mom was pregnant or hes not actually a "Blackfyre" but still Blackfyre heir) I wonder how Aegon would react to finding his sword Blackfyre.

Who I dont wonder, but anxiously anticipate, is Griff. Like the man dedicated his life to raising his princes son, ran when the realm needed him, sullied his name, wasted his life. Lmao. Good riddance, hes an asshole. But a dangerous asshole. I do not see Jon smiling at the sight of Blackfyre, and that should be more dangerous then all the Westerosi lords and Dany put together

 

[Lord Varys]

@rotting sea cow

Great list up there!

I'd say that what you listed up there couldn't have taken up more than 3-4 chests. Clothes can be stuffed together very efficiently, as can not that much money, jewels, and sweets - so I think there is a chance that all that stuff really fits in just one of the chests. The armor - likely only some for Connington, Duck, and Aegon (or perhaps only for Aegon himself, if it is rather special armor) - would take more space, especially if it were plate armor - hence the 3-4 chests.

8 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

What else?

- One can be some extra dragon eggs, which (in Illyrio's mind) can be hatched as easily as the one he gave to her for first time.

I think George really dealt our favorite theory a devastating blow with FaB when he had Elissa Farman steal three dragon eggs from Dragonstone and sell them to an unnamed (!) Sealord of Braavos. My own new pet theory is that the family name of said Sealord is going to turn out to be ... Mopatis. Wouldn't even surprise me if another Mopatis was the wastrel son of another Sealord once betrothed to Lady Laena Velaryon (those dragon eggs would have made a fine wedding gift for the rightful Queen of the Seven Kingdoms...), with this era perhaps marking the beginning (or end) of the decline of House Mopatis in Braavos.

But, of course, Illyrio Mopatis could just be a recently impoverished scion of a Braavosi family who happened to make a new life and fortune in Pentos - where he clearly is a new man. And the Blackfyre daughter Illyrio may be descended from may not exactly have married into House Mopatis but rather some other prominent and wealthy house some Blackfyre wanted to make an alliance with, and a daughter from that union could have then ended up with Illyrio's father or grandfather.

It is also possible, of course, that Illyrio was merely able to track down the three dragon eggs in Braavos and buy them after he had acquired his vast wealth. Then they wouldn't have been in the possession of his family the entire time. This may be the more probable scenario.

But in any case - the fact that Elissa stole and sold three dragon eggs makes it increasingly unlikely that Illyrio Mopatis ever possessed more than just the three dragon eggs he gave Dany as a wedding gift - although he would have still changed the story, claiming the eggs came from Asshai, so that Viserys III doesn't claim they were his property since they were stolen from Queen Rhaena and King Jaehaerys I, and thus no fitting gift for Dany.

However, this scenario would force to really radically change the more common interpretations of the motivations of Varys and Illyrio, shifting them more into the direction of Varys/Illyrio actually believing or expecting that Dany would hatch the eggs (never mind what Illyrio told Tyrion in ADwD) because if he had only three dragon eggs and had no reason to believe Dany might hatch the eggs it feels really, really weird that he would have dumped the eggs on Dany rather than giving them to Aegon in one of those chests to add more legitimacy to his identity and claim. Targaryen children had dragon eggs put in their cradles for century, so if Aegon were to show up with some eggs of his own people would see him with different eyes than they would see him without such eggs - even if the eggs never hatched.

But then, ADwD made it very clear that the question as to why Dany got her dragon eggs is still a crucial question in her (and the author's) mind, so we certainly can hope this question is eventually going to be answered.

8 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

- A crown. Which one? I don't know which crown Aegon VI will use but I'm sure that Illyrio recovered Rhaella's crown for Dany, which should have been relatively easy for him. Dany would have been truly grateful for that in case Aegon and Dany met as planned but now, it is probably that Aegon will give that crown to Arianne, adding insult to the injury.

That is a good idea. Viserys III only sold his mother's crown quite recently, so chances are not that bad that Illyrio had the opportunity to purchase it.

Insofar as crowns are concerned I expect either the original or a replica of the Conqueror's crown to be in one of the chests. If the Dornish still had said crown - or had secured it after the death of the Young Dragon - one assumes Prince Maron or Princess Myriah would have returned it to King Daeron II long ago. It could have helped Daeron II to smoothen out the loss of Blackfyre by wearing the Conqueror's own crown after he had brought Dorne into the Realm...

Of the other crowns the crown of Jaehaerys I could have been recovered, too, assuming the Braavosi who bought it never had it melted to sell the gold and the jewels piecemeal. Varys could, of course, also have stolen some of the other crowns still at the Red Keep - Aenys' golden crown with the inlaid figurines of the Seven (that one would be really pleasing to the Faith and new High Septon!), Maekar's warrior-crown (which would be a good replacement for the Conqueror's crown if that were truly lost), although that may also have been the crown Robert wore (assuming he didn't have a new crown made), the Unworthy's crown is also still around, having been last worn by Aerys II, but one guesses he may have worn that one when he was killed, making it very unlikely Varys could quietly steal it. Aegon III's crown I think was destroyed at Summerhall.

9 hours ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

I like the idea that Blackfyre is in one of the chests. Though I don't know whether that would be a good thing or a bad thing. On one hand, he'd ride into Westeros as a savior wielding the sword of the conqueror, but on the other hand, the last few times that sword has been used, it was in the hands of House Blackfyre. 

Blackfyre is, of course, the main candidate for the artifacts in the chests, especially since it has actually already been implicitly confirmed in an earlier version of the Tyrion chapter that was read at a convention ages ago. Back in that version, Tyrion overhears Illyrio and Haldon talk in a Valyrian dialect, he doesn't understand much but he can make out the word 'sword'.

However, we can be actually be reasonably sure that Blackfyre did not remain in the possession of the Blackfyres until the days of Maelys the Monstrous. After all, we do know that Haegon Blackfyre actually gave up his sword when he was captured at the end of the Third Blackfyre Rebellion. Said sword almost certainly was Blackfyre. So chances are pretty high that the Targaryen kings actually wielded the sword of the kings again, from the late years of Aerys I to the death of Aerys II. If that were the case then Prince Aegon wielding the sword of the kings again wouldn't hint at his (possible) descent from Daemon Blackfyre but rather strengthen his claim to be the son of Rhaegar. After all, if Aegon has Blackfyre he would have likely gotten it through Varys who would have stolen it during/after the Sack. And if Varys can and did steal a sword, he could certainly also steal an infant prince.

[asongofheresy]

I think Aegon will wear Maekar's crown, and I agree Illyrio could have Rhaella's crown... But about dragon eggs how tinfoily it is to think candied ginger stands for Aegon's dragon egg, is it possible "real" Aegon had one since he was supposed to be PTWP? Will Rhaegar gift his future savior a dragon along with two sisters to accompany his future reign? 

[Lost Melnibonean]

A pair of heavy breasts that sag like sacks of suet covered with coarse yellow hair. ...

Oh, wait... you're talking about the six chests with no gold for the Golden Company. 

Beneath the gold the bitter steel. 

[The Map Guy]

I always thought that "candied ginger" meant the ruby on the sword Blackfyre. Unless I'm wrong and Blackfrye doesn't have a ruby.

Quote

There is a gift for the boy in one of the chests. Some candied ginger. He was always fond of it." Illyrio sounded oddly sad. "I thought I might continue on to Ghoyan Drohe with you. A farewell feast before you start downriver.

Tyrion III ADWD

A farewell = death

downriver = Rhaegar's rubies at the Trident

Illyrio sounded oddly sad => Blackfyre sword = failed Blackfyre Rebellions

[rotting sea cow]

11 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

But in any case - the fact that Elissa stole and sold three dragon eggs makes it increasingly unlikely that Illyrio Mopatis ever possessed more than just the three dragon eggs he gave Dany as a wedding gift - although he would have still changed the story, claiming the eggs came from Asshai, so that Viserys III doesn't claim they were his property since they were stolen from Queen Rhaena and King Jaehaerys I, and thus no fitting gift for Dany.

However, this scenario would force to really radically change the more common interpretations of the motivations of Varys and Illyrio, shifting them more into the direction of Varys/Illyrio actually believing or expecting that Dany would hatch the eggs (never mind what Illyrio told Tyrion in ADwD) because if he had only three dragon eggs and had no reason to believe Dany might hatch the eggs it feels really, really weird that he would have dumped the eggs on Dany rather than giving them to Aegon in one of those chests to add more legitimacy to his identity and claim. Targaryen children had dragon eggs put in their cradles for century, so if Aegon were to show up with some eggs of his own people would see him with different eyes than they would see him without such eggs - even if the eggs never hatched.

I agree, it would be kind of a plot hole if Aegon shows up without dragon eggs.

In retrospective I think it should have been Drogo who gave the dragon's eggs to Dany. I'll make a thread about it.

 

Quote

That is a good idea. Viserys III only sold his mother's crown quite recently, so chances are not that bad that Illyrio had the opportunity to purchase it.

Insofar as crowns are concerned I expect either the original or a replica of the Conqueror's crown to be in one of the chests. If the Dornish still had said crown - or had secured it after the death of the Young Dragon - one assumes Prince Maron or Princess Myriah would have returned it to King Daeron II long ago. It could have helped Daeron II to smoothen out the loss of Blackfyre by wearing the Conqueror's own crown after he had brought Dorne into the Realm...

Of the other crowns the crown of Jaehaerys I could have been recovered, too, assuming the Braavosi who bought it never had it melted to sell the gold and the jewels piecemeal. Varys could, of course, also have stolen some of the other crowns still at the Red Keep - Aenys' golden crown with the inlaid figurines of the Seven (that one would be really pleasing to the Faith and new High Septon!), Maekar's warrior-crown (which would be a good replacement for the Conqueror's crown if that were truly lost), although that may also have been the crown Robert wore (assuming he didn't have a new crown made), the Unworthy's crown is also still around, having been last worn by Aerys II, but one guesses he may have worn that one when he was killed, making it very unlikely Varys could quietly steal it. Aegon III's crown I think was destroyed at Summerhall.

I think they would try the most symbolic crown possible. Aenys and  Jaehaerys I are good candidates. Maybe Aegon I crown will be found by Dany when she reaches Westeros (or not)

I remember reading somewhere that Robert had a new crown, but can't find the info right now.

 

Quote

However, we can be actually be reasonably sure that Blackfyre did not remain in the possession of the Blackfyres until the days of Maelys the Monstrous. After all, we do know that Haegon Blackfyre actually gave up his sword when he was captured at the end of the Third Blackfyre Rebellion. Said sword almost certainly was Blackfyre. So chances are pretty high that the Targaryen kings actually wielded the sword of the kings again, from the late years of Aerys I to the death of Aerys II. If that were the case then Prince Aegon wielding the sword of the kings again wouldn't hint at his (possible) descent from Daemon Blackfyre but rather strengthen his claim to be the son of Rhaegar. After all, if Aegon has Blackfyre he would have likely gotten it through Varys who would have stolen it during/after the Sack. And if Varys can and did steal a sword, he could certainly also steal an infant prince.

That is interesting info although we need confirmation. Do you think that Rhaegar might have used Blackfyre on the Trident and lost it when he fell? In that case, it might be found again by <insert favorite character>. Another possibility is that Aegon V had it with himself at Summerhall and thus was lost in the wildfire inferno. The last possibility is that it remained at KL with Aerys and was  - as you say - stolen by Varys.

 

[rotting sea cow]

15 hours ago, Megorova said:

think that "candied ginger" is a metaphor for Blackfyre sword. The boy was always fond of that sword, so Illyrio is giving it to him. And the gift for Dany could be Dark Sister.

 

11 hours ago, Jova Snow said:

I think Aegon will wear Maekar's crown, and I agree Illyrio could have Rhaella's crown... But about dragon eggs how tinfoily it is to think candied ginger stands for Aegon's dragon egg, is it possible "real" Aegon had one since he was supposed to be PTWP? Will Rhaegar gift his future savior a dragon along with two sisters to accompany his future reign? 

 

6 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

I always thought that "candied ginger" meant the ruby on the sword Blackfyre. Unless I'm wrong and Blackfrye doesn't have a ruby

Regarding candied ginger. We do not need to look to deep at every detail. That scene is meant to show that Illyrion knows quite deeply "Aegon" and has a emotional bond with him. This should lead us to think more about Aegon's true identity.

 

 

[rotting sea cow]

15 hours ago, Megorova said:

I think that "candied ginger" is a metaphor for Blackfyre sword. The boy was always fond of that sword, so Illyrio is giving it to him. And the gift for Dany could be Dark Sister. 

Dark Sister is most likely at the cave with Bloodraven. GRRM recently confirmed that Brynden Rivers took it to the Wall and if he took there, against any possible logic, then he took it beyond the Wall.

[Farstrider]

21 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Confirmed items

- Candied ginger

- Clown clothes for Tyrion

- A chain of rubies for Aegon as well as fine clothes

- Very likely, fine clothes for everyone as well as armor

- Travel money to cover any eventuality, like hiring guards, buy horses or passage in another ship, bribe some lesser officials (the big fish is bribed by Illyrion himself), etc. Not enough to hire a free company.

What else?

There is mention of gifts for Daenerys, what are those.

Well, the first "gift" is that his "nephew", the last of his family is alive. The second is that a professional army has been hired to help them to conquest the IT. But I think there are other presents.

- One can be some extra dragon eggs, which (in Illyrio's mind) can be hatched as easily as the one he gave to her for first time.

- A crown. Which one? I don't know which crown Aegon VI will use but I'm sure that Illyrio recovered Rhaella's crown for Dany, which should have been relatively easy for him. Dany would have been truly grateful for that in case Aegon and Dany met as planned but now, it is probably that Aegon will give that crown to Arianne, adding insult to the injury.

More Dragon eggs are too good of a gift to hope for.  Yet that is what I wish for Daenerys to have more of.  I've got a feeling the gifts are generously fit for a Targaryen Dragon Queen.  Certainly silks.  Maybe the tapestry from the throne room at King's Landing.  I also wish Littlefinger is secretly working for Targaryen restoration to return Westeros back to the Targaryen siblings all along.  

[Megorova]

1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

Regarding candied ginger. We do not need to look to deep at every detail. That scene is meant to show that Illyrion knows quite deeply "Aegon" and has a emotional bond with him. This should lead us to think more about Aegon's true identity.

Though later none of them were eating candied ginger, or even mentioning it.

And it's not like candied ginger is something exclusive and available only in Pentos, so it's not like it was necessary for fAegon to get that candied ginger delivered to him all the way from Pentos, if he wanted to eat some.

And it's not like in those 12 years, that he was separated from Illyrio, his tastes and preferences didn't changed.

And it's not like after 12 years of separation, the thing, that Illyrio is sending to fAegon, is something as insignificant as candied ginger, and not something, that will be useful for fAegon in his upcoming battle to win Iron Throne, such as Blackfyre sword.

So no, I don't think that "candied ginger", mentioned by Illyrio, was really just a candied ginger.

1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

Dark Sister is most likely at the cave with Bloodraven. GRRM recently confirmed that Brynden Rivers took it to the Wall and if he took there, against any possible logic, then he took it beyond the Wall.

Just because Brynden took Dark Sister with him beyond the Wall, doesn't mean, that he still has it, doesn't mean that it's still in that cave.

I think that Shiera Seastar, who is a shadowbinder Quaithe, is also the Three-Eyed Crow. She lured Bloodraven beyond the Wall, into that cave, and made him eat weirwood seedpaste. He fell asleep, and when he woke up, the tree was growing out from his body, thru his bones and muscles, from that seedpaste in his stomach (same thing will happen to Bran), roots binding him to that cave. Afterwards Shiera took his sword, and left.

Shiera/Quaithe/3EC is GRRM's parallel to water fairy Nimue (Lady of the Lake from Arthurian legends), queen of phantoms Morrigan/Nemain, and battle crow Badb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Morrígan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badb

And Bloodraven is a parallel to Merlin.

It seems, that GRRM even used in his books Badb's prophecy about the end of the world:

"I shall not see a world which will be dear to me:
Summer without blossoms, (Summers in The North.)
Cattle will be without milk,
Women without modesty,
Men without valour.
Conquests without a king... (The War of the Five Kings, all of which are either dead, or not on the Throne. Euron's conquest. fAegon's conquest. Neither are Kings.)
Woods without mast. (To build his Iron Fleet Euron has cut down a lot of trees.)
Sea without produce...
False judgements of old men. (Small Council's decision to kill Daenerys, etc.)
False precedents of lawyers, (Tyrion's corrupted trial for Joffrey's poisoning.)
Every man
a betrayer.
Every son a reaver. (Ironborn)
The son will go to the bed of his father, (Serenei of Lys is Larra Rogare. So when her son, Aegon IV, made her his mistress, he "went into his father's bed".)
The father
will go to the bed of his son. (Tywin and Shae)
Each his brother's brother-in-law. (Jaime and Cersei - "husband and wife", so Tyrion is Jaime's brother-in-law. And Targaryen incest.)
He will not seek any woman outside his
house... (Targaryen incest)
An evil time,
Son will deceive his father,
Daughter will deceive..."

Merlin died the same way as Bloodraven - his lover binded him to a magical tree in a cave, and left him there.

[Lord Varys]

4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

I agree, it would be kind of a plot hole if Aegon shows up without dragon eggs.

In retrospective I think it should have been Drogo who gave the dragon's eggs to Dany. I'll make a thread about it.

I'm pretty sure George thought a lot about the thing before writing the Elissa episode into FaB. That is a rather recent development. Prior to that, the last hint was from TWoIaF, implying - or at least making it possible - that Varys stole those dragon eggs Aerys II tried to hatch after Duskendale. Those could have been more than just three - and perhaps there are some such as well. After all, we did learn that the Targaryens still had dragon eggs as late as shortly before the Rebellion. But the Baratheons - Robert, Stannis, Renly, Joffrey, Tommen, etc. - do not have dragon eggs, so I think there needs to be an explanation for that.

Might turn out that Varys gives Aegon some of Aerys II's Dragonstonian dragon eggs as a present during his coronation.

But I think the fact that Illyrio likely gave all his eggs to Dany does suggest that he might have had a hunch that she would hatch those eggs. This is the only good reason that could explain why he would have wasted the eggs on Dany. In the end it could turn out that Varys/Illyrio had a reason that marrying Dany to Drogo could bring the Targaryen dragons back somehow.

After all, we still have no clue why and how the original plan to marry Dany to Drogo and ally Viserys III with the Dothraki was made. Who came up with that and why? Viserys III himself most definitely not. Thus it was likely Illyrio's brainchild - but what exactly made him believe this was a good idea? Up to this point nobody had ever included the Dothraki in a political scheme (outside the Grasslands, at least) and most definitely in as mad an enterprise as invading Westeros.

4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

I remember reading somewhere that Robert had a new crown, but can't find the info right now.

I don't recall anything from George about Robert's crown. We only know - or can deduce - that Cersei had a new crown made for Joffrey because when Tommen wears Joff's crown it is pointed out that it is too large for him. That implies that neither Joff nor Tommen ever wore Robert's crown.

4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

That is interesting info although we need confirmation. Do you think that Rhaegar might have used Blackfyre on the Trident and lost it when he fell? In that case, it might be found again by <insert favorite character>. Another possibility is that Aegon V had it with himself at Summerhall and thus was lost in the wildfire inferno. The last possibility is that it remained at KL with Aerys and was  - as you say - stolen by Varys.

Since Blackfyre was the sword of kings I doubt Aerys II would have ever given it to Rhaegar. I've suggested that Rhaegar may have wielded Dark Sister - because the sword in the illustration of the duel in TWoIaF is dark but not as large as Blackfyre would be - but that idea is less likely now that George has implied Bloodraven may have taken Dark Sister to the Wall. If he left it at Castle Black Aegon V may have taken it back after his disappearance, though.

A pity, though, to waste Dark Sister on Bloodraven. I'd have liked it if Egg had given the sword to his son Daeron, and Aerys II later to Rhaegar.

Considering that Blackfyre wasn't destroyed by the fires of the Conqueror's pyre I expect that they would have been able to retrieve it after Summerhall. Aegon V's crown would have melted, but Blackfyre would have just been buried under the rabble. Considering that they may have been interested to recover the remains of the king and whoever else of the royal family had died in the catastrophe, I'm pretty confident that they would have found the sword.

The seven dragon eggs may have been crushed when the castle collapsed in the inferno.

[Megorova]

17 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

However, we can be actually be reasonably sure that Blackfyre did not remain in the possession of the Blackfyres until the days of Maelys the Monstrous. After all, we do know that Haegon Blackfyre actually gave up his sword when he was captured at the end of the Third Blackfyre Rebellion. Said sword almost certainly was Blackfyre. So chances are pretty high that the Targaryen kings actually wielded the sword of the kings again, from the late years of Aerys I to the death of Aerys II. If that were the case then Prince Aegon wielding the sword of the kings again wouldn't hint at his (possible) descent from Daemon Blackfyre but rather strengthen his claim to be the son of Rhaegar.

Most likely, general public of 7K believes that the sword had perished at Summerhall. But actually it was stolen from there together with Jenny of Oldstones. Though Maelys didn't took Blackfyre with him to battlefield, in span of War of the Ninepenny Kings. It was unsuitable weapon for him, he was too big for it. He preferred different kind of weapon, like Robert Baratheon preferred war-hammer, and Bloodraven preferred weirwood bow instead of Dark Sister. On Maelys' picture in the World Book, where he's fighting against Barristan Selmy, the weapon that he uses, is not a sword. So the sword was left with Jenny, and Maelys' children, Varys and Serra (until the children were sold to slavers by Silvertongue). And when Varys met Illyrio, and reunited with his sister, they also found where the sword was. And years later gave it to fAegon, in one of those chests.

Though fAegon will claim, that supposedly it was Prince Rhaegar, who found Blackfyre on ruins of Summerhall, and left it for his son, Elia's Aegon. So fAegon will use Blackfyre as a prove, that he is Rhaegar's son (while actually he isn't).

[Seams]

12 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

There is a gift for the boy in one of the chests. Some candied ginger. He was always fond of it." Illyrio sounded oddly sad. "I thought I might continue on to Ghoyan Drohe with you. A farewell feast before you start downriver.

Tyrion III ADWD

Illyrio's tone here is an important clue. I think he knows (or suspects) that this Young Griff / Aegon is fated to die young. Maybe the death of Aegon / Young Griff is even part of a plan Illyrio has hatched - we know that only death can pay for life and, so far, Viserys, Drogo and Rhaego died to move Dany's cyvasse piece closer to the throne. Maybe the plan is to sacrifice Young Griff for the next step in Dany's journey. Or to allow Tyrion to advance in the game. (Doesn't Tyrion like to open a game of cyvasse by sending a dragon flying toward his opponent? Is fAegon his "dragon" cyvasse piece, sent toward Westeros?)

Ginger. Keep in mind that Hansel and Gretl were attracted to the witch's gingerbread house before they were put in a cage and fattened up for her singer stew gingerbread cookies. Kind of sinister, that candied ginger.

Because of the consistent description of baby Aegon's head being dashed against a wall by Gregor Clegane, I have always suspected a Humpty Dumpty ending (a nursery rhyme in English speaking countries) is in store for this fAegon. Whether it will come at The Wall in the north or at a smaller wall, I suspect that all the king's horses and all the king's men won't be able to put him together again. It is known.

Ghoyan Drohe is another weird hint. It is a ruined place, destroyed by dragon fire like some of the other key landmarks in ASOIAF history. I can believe that Illyrio and Griff chose it for this rendezvous because it is deserted and they didn't want a lot of people to see them together, or to see the fugitive Tyrion. But it is also a dead place, and that is always where rebirth starts in ASOIAF. I suspect the name of the place is an anagram: Ghoyan Drohe = Dragon Hey Ho. This does not necessarily spell doom for Young Griff in and of itself. I do think it spells a beginning of Tyrion's journey to fulfilling the Targ side of his heritage, which might necessitate a death paying for his new life.

(As I'm writing, I'm also pondering the "grey hand oho" possibility in the name Ghoyan Drohe. Is Illyrio a variation on the Coldhands archetype in this excerpt? Coldhands is able to meet people at a door and guide them to the next door, but he can't go through those doors. Coldhands also met Bran and his companions at a dead place: the Night Fort and Black Gate. Illyrio meets Tyrion when he emerges from his wine cask hiding place and delivers him to Ghoyan Drohe, but apparently goes no further. The name holds other possibilities as well - I think ambiguity may be a hallmark of GRRM's wordplay.)

Gifts and feasts are often fraught with peril in ASOIAF. Here we have Illyrio bearing gifts and offering to share a feast. Uh oh.

We know that Illyrio gave Dany three dragon eggs in a chest, along with some lovely silk fabric, as wedding gifts. We soon learn that the six chests he has given this group contain fabric (clothing) and . . . ginger? armor? silver coins?

As others have already wondered, where are the eggs? I suspect armor is linked to eggs because it is a type of shell. Basically, Illyrio is giving this group egg shells, but not the inner yolk and albumen necessary to hatch a living dragon. He doesn't even provide the gold coins known as dragons - the coins in the chests are specifically described as being silver.

I know that few people share the depth and breadth of my wordplay obsession, but I am intrigued by the "egg" anagram possibilities in the ginger phrase: "some candied ginger." It's another phrase with so many anagram possibilities that it's difficult to pin down any specific clue. Taken together with Illyrio's "oddly sad" tone, I think there is a strong possibility that the coded hint in "some candied ginger" might have to do with "dead egg" or "Aegon receding" or some other sad fate. (I am open to other suggestions, though - gems? diamonds? ice dragon? grace? It's fun to play with the anagram generator, if anyone else cares to experiment with other possibilities.)

For those not open to anagram hints, of course, "ginger" is also a nickname for a person with red hair. We know that Jon Snow had a memorable encounter with a red haired woman who was "kissed by fire" and then moved on to encounter Melisandre who seems to do a lot with red and with fire kisses. Catelyn has auburn (reddish brown) hair of which, we are told, Ned is very fond. She is kissed by fire when Beric Dondarrion passes along his fire kiss and brings her back to life. Tyrion is married to Sansa who also has auburn hair. So Illyrio commenting on fAegon's supposed fondness for candied ginger could be thrown in for the sake of symbolism: fAegon needed some "ginger" in his arc as he makes a journey comparable to the journeys of other Iron Throne aspirants in his generation.

On the positive side, perhaps, ginger is also a root. We know through Davos that roots in the form of onions can represent life. Bran sends a dish of root vegetables to Little and Big Walder at the harvest feast at Winterfell but that is because he doesn't like them. Turnips (also known as neeps) may symbolize an entrance to the Otherworld (Pennytree = neep entry). Maybe Illyrio is providing ginger so fAegon can enter the Otherworld. What will happen there, we do not know.

More potential symbolism: "oaken chests with iron hasps." If you are a Dunk and Egg fan, as I am, you will remember the "shield rhyme" that is like Dunk's prayer: "Oak and iron, guard me well or else I'm dead and doomed to hell." Ser Robyn Rhysling, of House Rhysling, is part of Dunk's team in the Trial of Seven. House Rhysling members blazon their arms with an oaken door banded with iron, in a grey stone doorway, on black masonry. I apologize if I'm belaboring this point made elsewhere, but I think the oak and iron combination is indicative of a strong shield; shields are symbolic doors; and only certain people can open doors. (Just recently, in another thread, I've been pondering Victarion and Jon Snow as door-openers with Victarion attacking the Shield Islands and Jon Snow reopening the Shield Hall.) The six oak and iron chests may represent the opening of six doors - Illyrio couldn't open them, but someone in Jon Connington's group (or the combination of people) can do it. Similarly, Dany is able to hatch the eggs that no one else could hatch and she seems to be uniquely qualified to open the doors in the House of the Undying. There is probably Pandora's Box symbolism at work here, though: what evils are unloosed when each chest or door is opened?