MCUniverse: Phase Four and Beyond(er) **maybe spoilers**

[sologdin]

Like earth and asgard are on the same dimension but different realms.

the mythology is laden with ambiguity.  voluspa in the elder edda records:

Quote

I remember yet | the giants of yore,
Who gave me bread | in the days gone by;
Nine worlds I knew, | the nine in the tree
With mighty roots | beneath the mold.

that's fairly opaque--a literal reading is that niflheim and jotunheim and asgarth and whatnot are all fruits hanging from a big ash that is the universe. i guess that's not more implausible than turtles all the way down.

there's some suggestion in the ancient writings that hel is underground and asgarth is in the sky, sorta, and maybe alfheim is a physical place. but it's all translucent, like maybe we don't care so much to nail down the locations, muspelheim could be a physical place, as surt is said to be from "the south," whatever that may mean.  maybe they're all in the same place but mostly invisible to each other unless illuminated by a rainbow, or something. odin rides to niflheim on sleipnir in one episode.

but separate planets in space works fine too.

[red snow]

3 hours ago, Werthead said:

The Phase 4 roster appears to be as follows:

 

Black Widow

The Eternals

Black Panther 2

Doctor Strange 2

Spider-Man 3

Shang-Chi

Captain Marvel 2

The Avengers 5 (probably)

Ant-Man 3

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3

Thor 4

The Thunderbolts (possibly)

 

That takes us through to 2023 and the end of Phase 4. There physically isn't much release room for any X-Verse or FF movies, unless they go beyond 3 movies a year which I think would be a challenge.

There were 11 films in phase 3 and there's only 10 confirmed films in your list and I could see FF being interchangeable with Thunderbolts (or Thunderbolts being interchangeable with Avengers 5 - as the thunderbolts twist might work even better if it's under the guise of Avengers)

I have a feeling the last two fox x-men films will probably stink enough that no-one will want to see any x-men for a few years outside of deadpool

[The Anti-Targ]

So, spoilers officially lifted by the Russo's, but I guess I'll still spoiler this about Captain America in the fight

Spoiler

The Russo's answered someone's question about Cap being worthy in Endgame, by saying that Cap was worthy in Age of Ultron, but chose not to lift Mjolnir so as to not hurt Thor's feelings. Maybe Cap was always worthy, even before he was Cap. Though maybe also being worthy isn;t only about character, but also about the physical capability of wielding it. So puny Steve only met half of the worthiness criteria.

 

[karaddin]

5 hours ago, Guy Kilmore said:

I just thought they were different places and the bifrost is a way of traveling vast distances swiftly.  Like earth and asgard are on the same dimension but different realms.

I could be wrong. 

If you look at Asgard in all its movie appearances it isn't a regular planet - it's essentially an island suspended in the void yet somehow with atmosphere and light from a star. I think that's enough to think it may be either in another dimension or somehow on the border of our dimension so a regular ship can still get to it somehow. Watch the end of Ragnarok, you can see the ocean cascading at the edge of the disc.

I'm not sure Jotunheim is necessarily in our universe either, but the place they're fighting at the start of TDW is probably just another regular planet.

[Bastard of Boston]

Variety is reporting that Robb Stark, also known as Richard Madden, is in talks to portray Ikaris in Eternals.

[Darth Richard II]

4 minutes ago, Bastard of Boston said:

Variety is reporting that Robb Stark, also known as Richard Madden, is in talks to portray Ikaris in Eternals.

Ha! That's who that is! I was sitting there looking at his pic trying to think why he looked so familiar.

[Guy Kilmore]

21 minutes ago, karaddin said:

If you look at Asgard in all its movie appearances it isn't a regular planet - it's essentially an island suspended in the void yet somehow with atmosphere and light from a star. I think that's enough to think it may be either in another dimension or somehow on the border of our dimension so a regular ship can still get to it somehow. Watch the end of Ragnarok, you can see the ocean cascading at the edge of the disc.

I'm not sure Jotunheim is necessarily in our universe either, but the place they're fighting at the start of TDW is probably just another regular planet.

Not sure about Jotunheim, but we know space travel to Asgard is possible.  The Dark Elves do it in Thor 2 (They even go from Asgard to Earth, so their home world, Asgard and Earth are connected by some kind of space travel.)  Loki traveled to Asgard via ship in Thor Ragnarok, they also left by ship and crossed paths with both Thanos/GotG.

I guess it doesn't feel like a huge Stretch for Captain Marvel to get to these places.

[karaddin]

Yeah I meant the part about space travel as a statement, not a question - it's weird and ambiguous but it's not a planet and it is reachable by space ships.

[Guest]

On 5/6/2019 at 4:07 PM, Darth Richard II said:

God, I love the scene in homecoming where Michael Keaton character figures it out in like 10 seconds.

I think Michael Keaton gets criminally overlooked when it comes to "best of MCU villains" lists. He has a backstory, a reasonable motive to turn to villainy, has a family and so is relatable, and that fucking scene with him, Peter and Liz on the way to the prom scared the shit out of me. He's probably 3rd best villain after Thanos and Loki.

[Werthead]

17 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I think Michael Keaton gets criminally overlooked when it comes to "best of MCU villains" lists. He has a backstory, a reasonable motive to turn to villainy, has a family and so is relatable, and that fucking scene with him, Peter and Liz on the way to the prom scared the shit out of me. He's probably 3rd best villain after Thanos and Loki.

Yeah, that's why I think he's a shoe-in for Thunderbolts and possibly Spider-Man 3 (he'll still be in jail in 2, but can see him getting out in the post-credits).

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Yeah, that's why I think he's a shoe-in for Thunderbolts and possibly Spider-Man 3 (he'll still be in jail in 2, but can see him getting out in the post-credits).

Seems weird that a guy dealing in black market Alien tech weapons (and other tools for criminals) manufacture gets to have a prison sentence with an end date within a natural life span. I would have thought it would be worth one of those 150-200 year type sentences that American courts like to hand out. I would have kinda liked for Vulture's crew to also be supplying shady govt military black ops (or black ops contractors to the military) with some of their sweet tech. And this is the reason why Vulture gets a sentence which lets him out of prison while he still has some productive life span remaining, because the "deep state" wants him to get back to work on the things they want.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Yeah, that's why I think he's a shoe-in for Thunderbolts and possibly Spider-Man 3 (he'll still be in jail in 2, but can see him getting out in the post-credits).

I'm really glad they didn't kill him off, which is something else Marvel does that I don't agree with, for that very reason. 

[Darth Richard II]

Was there talk of a Thunderbolts film or is wert just speculating?

[red snow]

4 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Was there talk of a Thunderbolts film or is wert just speculating?

I've seen lots of internet columns about thunderbolts but I don't recall any MCU people mention it.

I think a lot of it stems from Spidey joining the MCU and people thinking his villains could/would play a larger role in the MCU. Osborn/goblin is a clear candidate for that. However, it seems to be one-way outside of spidey in the sense his villains have stayed in his films. I think vulture is being kept in play solely for a sinister six team-up.

Lots of people have also speculated that the avengers would be "rested" after phase 4 and thought "thunderbolts" or "defenders" would make a good alternative. I don't really want ro spoil what made the original " thunderbolts" concept so fun but a lot of the talk is actually referring to a later warren ellis version of the comic where all the big villains form an evil team. The problem already is that green goblin and venom are key members (venom is definitely problematic) and bullseye (more complicated in terms of Netflix continuity) too. Plus, it seems an odd move to make a film about a team of villains when the biggest criticism about the MCU is the quality of villains. A lot of the good ones are dead eg killmonger and thanos (who'd be ridiculously overpowered). That leaves loki and vulture. I can see loki being a BTS character bringing villains together.

So i think we'd have to be seeing a string of well executed villains in upcoming films for there to be an Ellis version of thunderbolts.

[polishgenius]

Ellis's version of the Thunderbolts doesn't make sense without the context of the comic version of Civil War and its aftermath anyway. Without it it's basically just the Suicide Squad, which is fine, but not necessarily something Marvel are going to want to be doing. And, as you say, difficult to assemble a relevant team at this point.

[Werthead]

12 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Seems weird that a guy dealing in black market Alien tech weapons (and other tools for criminals) manufacture gets to have a prison sentence with an end date within a natural life span. I would have thought it would be worth one of those 150-200 year type sentences that American courts like to hand out. I would have kinda liked for Vulture's crew to also be supplying shady govt military black ops (or black ops contractors to the military) with some of their sweet tech. And this is the reason why Vulture gets a sentence which lets him out of prison while he still has some productive life span remaining, because the "deep state" wants him to get back to work on the things they want.

I assume he breaks out, gets rescued or somehow escaped during the Snap. Maybe 50% of the prison guards vanished (or more, depending on the statistical quirk) and the prisoners didn't suffer as badly and managed to break out?

[red snow]

13 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I assume he breaks out, gets rescued or somehow escaped during the Snap. Maybe 50% of the prison guards vanished (or more, depending on the statistical quirk) and the prisoners didn't suffer as badly and managed to break out?

I imagine break-out is an option. Folk probably wouldn't have prisons top of their priority if half the world had just vanished. Shit luck if he was one of the snapped although they might knock 5 years off his sentence.

[Leofric]

36 minutes ago, red snow said:

I imagine break-out is an option. Folk probably wouldn't have prisons top of their priority if half the world had just vanished. Shit luck if he was one of the snapped although they might knock 5 years off his sentence.

With half the population suddenly gone with the snap, the prisons may have been emptied as part of some kind of work release program to keep things running, especially prisoners that had useful skills.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Maybe he appealed, and won because most of the prosecution witnesses had snapped?

 

[john]

22 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

So, spoilers officially lifted by the Russo's, but I guess I'll still spoiler this about Captain America in the fight

  Reveal hidden contents

The Russo's answered someone's question about Cap being worthy in Endgame, by saying that Cap was worthy in Age of Ultron, but chose not to lift Mjolnir so as to not hurt Thor's feelings. Maybe Cap was always worthy, even before he was Cap. Though maybe also being worthy isn;t only about character, but also about the physical capability of wielding it. So puny Steve only met half of the worthiness criteria.

 

Man, every time the Russo’s “reveal” something it’s like the opposite interpretation from what I had.  Haven’t they ever heard of death of the author?!