MCUniverse: Phase Four and Beyond(er) **maybe spoilers**

[DaveSumm]

47 minutes ago, john said:

Man, every time the Russo’s “reveal” something it’s like the opposite interpretation from what I had.  Haven’t they ever heard of death of the author?!

Spoiler

Thing is, they had nothing to do with Age of Ultron. Did Joss Whedon intend for Cap to be protecting Thor’s feelings at the time? I doubt it. I don’t see why the Russo’s get to decide otherwise. I really never thought this would become a big question, he wasn’t worthy, then he was. 

 

[red snow]

5 hours ago, Leofric said:

With half the population suddenly gone with the snap, the prisons may have been emptied as part of some kind of work release program to keep things running, especially prisoners that had useful skills.

I agree - there's some useful folk especially in super prisons. I could imagine the Vulture being someone who'd be relatively trustworthy. Give him a well paid contract and his family back and he'd probably tow the line.

[Winterfell is Burning]

17 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

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Thing is, they had nothing to do with Age of Ultron. Did Joss Whedon intend for Cap to be protecting Thor’s feelings at the time? I doubt it. I don’t see why the Russo’s get to decide otherwise. I really never thought this would become a big question, he wasn’t worthy, then he was. 

 

Yeah, not only they weren't involved then, but it's a VERY stupid explanation. I have a much simpler one

In AoU, Cap didn't have a noble goal in mind to raise Mjolnir, he just wanted to win a bet, so his motivation was selfish, which made him unworthy.

[Darth Richard II]

I'm not 100 percent positive on this one but I thought Whedon had confirmed that above theory the Russos are parading around at one point.

[Corvinus85]

I rather prefer my theory on what happened in AoU. 

[Rhom]

36 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Yeah, not only they weren't involved then, but it's a VERY stupid explanation. I have a much simpler one

  Hide contents

In AoU, Cap didn't have a noble goal in mind to raise Mjolnir, he just wanted to win a bet, so his motivation was selfish, which made him unworthy.

 

If that’s the case, Thor was the one betting they couldn’t do it and essentially lording it over them... shouldn’t that disqualify him from lifting it???

[SpaceChampion]

Agents of Shield clip

Are they part of the multiverse I wonder?

[Winterfell is Burning]

4 hours ago, Rhom said:

If that’s the case, Thor was the one betting they couldn’t do it and essentially lording it over them... shouldn’t that disqualify him from lifting it???

He already "qualified" to lift it before. But remember he only got it back after essentially sacrificing himself.

[The Anti-Targ]

Saw a headline saying Marvel is about to reveal one of the MCU characters is gay. Might as well concentrate all of the hate from conservatives and MRAs into one character I suppose and make it Captain Marvel. She's pretty much the half of all the most popular gay ships, I'm guessing. Though if they are only revealing one character as gay does that mean it can't be both Carol and Valkyrie, or does Valkyrie not count because technically she's never been an Avenger?

Another possibility would be Bucky I suppose. Shuri or Okoye could be too. Falcon and Rhody haven't had any romantic scenes one way or the other either, I think. Wanda has only been in love with a robot that looks male, so she might be pretty fluid.

Okoye was (is?) married to W'Kabe. I guess she can still be bi-but I doubt they are going to bi-ify characters with established hetero "cred"

[karaddin]

Given the online reactions already and the way it has been fanned by Brie and Tessa I think it makes the most sense for it to be one or both of them. I think the point against Bucky is that a) that fandom was specifically linking him with Cap and that's out of the question now and b) he also has that "hetero cred" in the first CA iirc?

[Darth Richard II]

Eh, Valkyrie was confirmed bi a while ago. Where are you reading this information? The only thing I’ve seen is that the Eternals is going to have a gay character in it.

[felice]

7 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I'm not 100 percent positive on this one but I thought Whedon had confirmed that above theory the Russos are parading around at one point.

It certainly looked like that to me at the time. Mjolnir did move, and I don't think there's much evidence to support the idea that ease-of-weilding scales proportionally to degree of worthiness rather than being a binary state, or that it's capable of determining that someone is not-quite-worthy-but-close-enough-to-deserve-encouragement.

[Which Tyler]

Quote from the originator:

I had a moment today while watching a whiny shitlord complain about the injustice of a new sci-fi media having more female leads, I suddenly felt the strangest sense of deja vu. I couldn't pinpoint it at first but then out of nowhere, it ******* dawned on me

 

[red snow]

9 hours ago, felice said:

It certainly looked like that to me at the time. Mjolnir did move, and I don't think there's much evidence to support the idea that ease-of-weilding scales proportionally to degree of worthiness rather than being a binary state, or that it's capable of determining that someone is not-quite-worthy-but-close-enough-to-deserve-encouragement.

Probably stuck in a mjolnir worthy infinity loop - pretending not to be able to lift it to spare Thor's feelings made him worthy but the dishonesty made him unworthy. Hence the wobble.

[The Mother of The Others]

 young Thor was worthy and he lived for the fight, so immature war mongering can't be Cap's unworthy thing in avengers2.   Even though avengers2 kind of led you to believe that, like Cap had some personality things preventing him from lifting it, and once he worked through it.....

But no, he was always selfless.  So it makes sense that he just didn't want it.

 

[red snow]

15 minutes ago, The Mother of The Others said:

 young Thor was worthy and he lived for the fight, so immature war mongering can't be Cap's unworthy thing in avengers2.   Even though avengers2 kind of led you to believe that, like Cap had some personality things preventing him from lifting it, and once he worked through it.....

But no, he was always selfless.  So it makes sense that he just didn't want it.

 

I think norse worthy also quite different so war mongering maybe not a bad thing. Being a virgin may have held cap back so maybe he solved that during the 5 year gap? 

I guess it's "Disney" worthy not norse worthy though

[The Mother of The Others]

Now for the version i really like:  Cap passed Odin's old-world test for worthiness ("have you bashed in lots of skulls...and, uhhhh, also displayed some finer qualities?") in Age of Ultron.   But Cap's own definition of Worthiness was a higher bar that disqualified people like young Thor and himself, as he felt he was still too much of a jarhead to be entrusted with such power at that point.  So he refused to take up the hammer even though it would have let him. 

Then, the next couple movies' worth of hero journey grew his personality beyond "nice guy / asskicker."   He had also showed resolve, broke away from being a government puppet and began defining right from wrong himself, had courage to go alone against the world, all that nice proof of awesomeness.  Then, in Endgame, he felt worthy of a legendary weapon, because a legendary opponent had just refuted his shield-only combat style.  So even then Cap didn't pick up the hammer for himself, but for the world, Jim, he did it for the world.

[sologdin]

 guess it's "Disney" worthy not norse worthy though

totally. the norse requirement does not involve 'worthiness' in the sense of moral virtue, or, if it does, it is alien to us.  consider:

Quote

Then he gave the hammer to Thor, and said that Thor might smite as hard as he desired, whatsoever might be before him, and the hammer would not fail; and if he threw it at anything, it would never miss, and never fly so far as not to return to his hand; and if be desired, he might keep it in his sark, it was so small; but indeed it was a flaw in the hammer that the fore-haft was somewhat short.

skalskaparmal XXXV. loki had casued a fuckup in the creation of mjolnir here, which leads it to being short-hafted. apparently this means that it must be wielded one-handed.

Quote

He has also three things of great price: one is the hammer Mjöllnir, which the Rime-Giants and the Hill-Giants know, when it is raised on high; and that is no wonder, it has bruised many a skull among their fathers or their kinsmen. He has a second costly thing, best of all: the girdle of might; and when he clasps it about him, then the godlike strength within him is increased by half. Yet a third thing he has, in which there is much virtue: his iron gloves; he cannot do without them when he uses his hammer-shaft.

gylfaginning XXI. to wield it one-handed, the interpretation runs, he needs the girdle ('megingjörð')and gloves('járngreipr'), which convey the necessary strength or skill or whatever to handle it.  

Quote

I have Hloritha's

Hammer hidden: 
Under eight miles

of earth it lies, 
And such no one

shall see again 
Save he first bring me

Freyja to wife.

Þrymskviða 7. here some other guy has stolen the hammer and is using it to extort freyja as though she were a possession to trade.  i think that pretty much kills a moral requirement in the underlying scriptural materials.

 

[mormont]

Yeah, the 'worthiness' requirement is all Stan and Jack. It's not a thing in the original myths. 

[Kalbear]

On 5/7/2019 at 4:08 AM, BigFatCoward said:

Multiverses suck, nothing good has ever come from one, ever. 

Into the spiderverse is the best spidey movie ever and one of if not the best superhero movies ever.