MCUniverse: Phase Four and Beyond(er) **maybe spoilers**

[Winterfell is Burning]

Also, Doom has a kind of unique code of honor (even if he breaks himself from time to time).  If he says he'll work with the heroes on something and gives his word won't attack them in the next 24 hours, he won't, because he will not break his word, even if he has the perfect opportunity, because he really sees himself as a hero and a man of honor.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Just occurred to me: if making big changes to timeline makes a splinter timeline, did this happen when Thanos reversed time to take Vision’s stone before SW killed him? Is the’real’ timeline the one where Thanos looks at Vision’s corpse, realises he failed, and then got whacked by Thor?

[DaveSumm]

2 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Just occurred to me: if making big changes to timeline makes a splinter timeline, did this happen when Thanos reversed time to take Vision’s stone before SW killed him? Is the’real’ timeline the one where Thanos looks at Vision’s corpse, realises he failed, and then got whacked by Thor?

From what we’ve seen of the time stone, it seems to isolate what you point it at and reverse just one bubble of stuff, like Strange did with the apple. Nobody else on the battlefield went back in time, just Wanda and Vision.

Endgame spoilers:

Spoiler

But it raises an interesting possibility: if the time stone doesn’t play by time travel rules (and that’s pretty much the only time we see it used ... it travels through time, but never under its own power) then Cap could’ve fixed the Tesseract with it (or The Ancient One could, at Cap’s request), then said “hey, this doesn’t seem to break any timelines ... does that mean  there’s a way for me to go back to 1945 and also not break any timelines?” Ancient One does some spell or other, uses the stone to put Cap back in our timeline, not a splinter one.

 

[Rhom]

I’m not posting in spoiler text.  It’s been more than a month and the thread title gives warning.

I know what they said in interviews outside of what’s on film, but for me it still makes the most sense to have Steve in our universe and he just lived his life here then on the appointed day walked to that park bench and waited for everyone to notice him.  Don’t overcomplicate what is simple.

[red snow]

13 minutes ago, Rhom said:

I’m not posting in spoiler text.  It’s been more than a month and the thread title gives warning.

I know what they said in interviews outside of what’s on film, but for me it still makes the most sense to have Steve in our universe and he just lived his life here then on the appointed day walked to that park bench and waited for everyone to notice him.  Don’t overcomplicate what is simple.

Seems the easiest option. I also think he probably did get involved in saving the earth type things too when required. The Hydra thing is tricky but i guess they hadn't caused too much harm prior to winter soldier anyhow.

[DaveSumm]

36 minutes ago, Rhom said:

I’m not posting in spoiler text.  It’s been more than a month and the thread title gives warning.

I know what they said in interviews outside of what’s on film, but for me it still makes the most sense to have Steve in our universe and he just lived his life here then on the appointed day walked to that park bench and waited for everyone to notice him.  Don’t overcomplicate what is simple.

Yea that’s what I’m advocating. That Old Cap was always there in the background, I just thought it was a possible mechanism as to how he did that.

Also worth noting that the Russo’s said he lived in an alternate timeline, but the scriptwriters said the opposite. It would’ve been them who wrote that he appeared on the bench not the platform, them who wrote Winter Soldier and thus the Peggy’s bedside scene with the photo of her kids, and her saying “you came back to me”. I prefer their version.

[TrueMetis]

People might then just be like "why didn't he save Bucky and Howard then" but honestly I'm fine with him just having decided he did enough and it was time for him to live his life. Who with an opinion we care about is really going to object?

[Corvinus85]

If Old Cap lived in the same time, I wonder if he silently followed Sam's career, and maybe even made small interventions to make sure Sam was on the path that led up to that moment. It's interesting what he says when he gives Sam the shield, that it always belonged to him.

[The Anti-Targ]

15 hours ago, red snow said:

Seems the easiest option. I also think he probably did get involved in saving the earth type things too when required. The Hydra thing is tricky but i guess they hadn't caused too much harm prior to winter soldier anyhow.

But he also knew exactly who the Hydra movers and shakers inside SHIELD were and yet didn't stop Winter Soldier from happening. He knew Bucky killed Tony's parents, where and when but didn't stop it. However the laws of time pretty much dictate that Winter Soldier would happen, and Bucky would kill Stark's parents. Because as Banner said, all that stuff is Steve's past and he can't change the past. Indeed all of the shit Hydra did over 60 years or so couldn't be prevented. Endgame time travel doesn't even permit Steve to have stopped stuff that might have happened in the original timeline. Because is didn't happen in his past.

The biggest problem with what universe / timeline Cap was in is his shield. Where did the second shield come from?

Also, isn't cap like way old, like far over 100 years old, because the SSS prolongs his life? He's much older than the straight time between 1950 and 2025.

On a different topic, people think David Harbor is playing The Thing in Black Widow. That would be interesting, because it means F4 are in the MCU before the Avengers. Are they going to use the BW movie to have the F4 end up going on a space mission for 15 years?

[Darth Richard II]

The Black Widow movie is (reportedly) going to be set between Civil War and Infinity War, so it would be more like, hrmm, 10? Math late night hard.

[red snow]

1 hour ago, Darth Richard II said:

The Black Widow movie is (reportedly) going to be set between Civil War and Infinity War, so it would be more like, hrmm, 10? Math late night hard.

Pesky 5 year jump makes it tricky to calculate.

 

1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

But he also knew exactly who the Hydra movers and shakers inside SHIELD were and yet didn't stop Winter Soldier from happening. He knew Bucky killed Tony's parents, where and when but didn't stop it. However the laws of time pretty much dictate that Winter Soldier would happen, and Bucky would kill Stark's parents. Because as Banner said, all that stuff is Steve's past and he can't change the past. Indeed all of the shit Hydra did over 60 years or so couldn't be prevented. Endgame time travel doesn't even permit Steve to have stopped stuff that might have happened in the original timeline. Because is didn't happen in his past.

The biggest problem with what universe / timeline Cap was in is his shield. Where did the second shield come from?

Also, isn't cap like way old, like far over 100 years old, because the SSS prolongs his life? He's much older than the straight time between 1950 and 2025.

On a different topic, people think David Harbor is playing The Thing in Black Widow. That would be interesting, because it means F4 are in the MCU before the Avengers. Are they going to use the BW movie to have the F4 end up going on a space mission for 15 years?

Much like the comics thry emulate, i think the bottom line is the MCU is more about entertainment than makung sense. That's especially true of all the time travel stuff. They can have banner/tilda Swinton and tge directors waving their hands all over the place but i think any explanation can be shook apart either based on their "rules" or that Steve Rogers would sit back and do nothing simply because he cant.

A funny explanation could be that he didn't remember what day Starks parents died and he didn't know where Bucky was kept.

[DaveSumm]

I’m entirely happy with: by some miracle, they managed to stop Thanos. It was 14million to one. Anything at all that jeopardises that, like any minor detail being different, isn’t worth the risk. All this stuff is small potatoes compared to the whole universe.

[Mladen]

I finally watched this last week and boy, was it epic fan service.

That is the thing, if you are going to do fan service, do it right and they did. The portals scene was the Rohirrim charge of MCU. #nerdgasm

The sheer number of character that was incorporated into this movie is incredible. It was so sweet to see Frigga, The Ancient One... But, my God, Peggy Carter <3 And James D'Arcy as Jarvis. 

The ending... I think Steve understood the necessity of keeping low profile. And doing nothing. But that certainly raises one question. How is Sharon Peggy's niece? Her brother died, so I always assumed that it was niece from her husband's side, but then again, she wouldn't be Carter... So, I assume Peggy had a cousin or something?

Also, some neanderthals were annoyed by THAT female moment. I liked it. It was a nice call back to Infinity Wars and Black Widow and Okoye protecting Wanda.

I like that Tony and Peter had their moment. I only wish we had Tony saying "with great power..." line. I have no idea whether we'll have Uncle Ben down the road in Spidey movies, but Tony was the best father figure. 

Simply put, people who did this worked hard and loved what they were doing. You could feel that in every frame. That is why it was so damn epic. 

[williamjm]

12 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I’m entirely happy with: by some miracle, they managed to stop Thanos. It was 14million to one. Anything at all that jeopardises that, like any minor detail being different, isn’t worth the risk. All this stuff is small potatoes compared to the whole universe.

I agree, and the examples that tend to be brought up aren't minor details. Someone as powerful and influential as Howard Stark living a few more years could have a big and completely unpredictable effect on the world, and Tony could well make different choices in his life if he wasn't orphaned.

11 hours ago, Risto said:

But that certainly raises one question. How is Sharon Peggy's niece? Her brother died, so I always assumed that it was niece from her husband's side, but then again, she wouldn't be Carter... So, I assume Peggy had a cousin or something?

We know Peggy has a brother who died, but I don't remember whether they ever say he was her only sibling. She could also potentially have had younger siblings born after the events in the first Captain America film.

[red snow]

12 hours ago, Risto said:

I finally watched this last week and boy, was it epic fan service.

That is the thing, if you are going to do fan service, do it right and they did. The portals scene was the Rohirrim charge of MCU. #nerdgasm

The sheer number of character that was incorporated into this movie is incredible. It was so sweet to see Frigga, The Ancient One... But, my God, Peggy Carter <3 And James D'Arcy as Jarvis. 

The ending... I think Steve understood the necessity of keeping low profile. And doing nothing. But that certainly raises one question. How is Sharon Peggy's niece? Her brother died, so I always assumed that it was niece from her husband's side, but then again, she wouldn't be Carter... So, I assume Peggy had a cousin or something?

Also, some neanderthals were annoyed by THAT female moment. I liked it. It was a nice call back to Infinity Wars and Black Widow and Okoye protecting Wanda.

I like that Tony and Peter had their moment. I only wish we had Tony saying "with great power..." line. I have no idea whether we'll have Uncle Ben down the road in Spidey movies, but Tony was the best father figure. 

Simply put, people who did this worked hard and loved what they were doing. You could feel that in every frame. That is why it was so damn epic. 

I thought uncle Ben was already dead in MCU? Pretty sure it was mentioned in civil war. 

Some interesting rumours going around regarding who owns stark towers now. I'm with holding judgement as it's an old rumour and sometimes it's hard to tell what was an accurate, early leak from a solid fan theory that starts gathering its own momentum.

[Darth Richard II]

Yeah uncle Ben is dead. Doesn’t mean they can’t flash back to him though.

also they should totally cast Sean bean 

[Jaxom 1974]

19 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

 

Also, isn't cap like way old, like far over 100 years old, because the SSS prolongs his life? He's much older than the straight time between 1950 and 2025.

 

See that's where they're going to simply ignore that the MCU is currently 5 years ahead of "real time".  It's going to be less and less impactful and mean nothing going forward.  They should have reset back to closer to 2019...

[Raja]

18 hours ago, Risto said:

 

Also, some neanderthals were annoyed by THAT female moment. I liked it. It was a nice call back to Infinity Wars and Black Widow and Okoye protecting Wanda.

 

Do you mean the one during the final fight? There have been several female critics that feel that that moment was pretty hollow. Calling them 'neanderthals' is a bit weird and offensive, in my opinion. And I totally get it, you might not agree with it but it's difficult to argue against those criticisms. 

I'm linking a piece that does a decent job in explaining why that might be problematic. 

( If you're talking about a different scene, then fair enough, but honestly I don't think calling out Marvel's treatment of it's female characters is out of bounds or uncalled for at all)  

[HokieStone]

6 hours ago, williamjm said:

We know Peggy has a brother who died, but I don't remember whether they ever say he was her only sibling. She could also potentially have had younger siblings born after the events in the first Captain America film.

Well, it was always weird that she was Peggy's niece, given that Peggy was an adult in the 1940s...and Sharon is about 30, which has her born in the 80s.  (Emily Van de Camp, the actress was born in 1986.)  So, let's just go with Peggy had a much younger sibling.  Or maybe Peggy was get great-Aunt - it wouldn't be unusual for someone to call their Great-Aunt just "Aunt".

[felice]

23 minutes ago, Raja said:

Do you mean the one during the final fight? There have been several female critics that feel that that moment was pretty hollow. Calling them 'neanderthals' is a bit weird and offensive, in my opinion.

Yes, some people do have legitimate issues with that shot. There are also misogynist assholes who hate it for other reasons, and calling them neanderthals is offensive to our prehistoric cousins!