The Anti-Targ Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 28 minutes ago, Raja said: Do you mean the one during the final fight? There have been several female critics that feel that that moment was pretty hollow. Calling them 'neanderthals' is a bit weird and offensive, in my opinion. And I totally get it, you might not agree with it but it's difficult to argue against those criticisms. I'm linking a piece that does a decent job in explaining why that might be problematic. ( If you're talking about a different scene, then fair enough, but honestly I don't think calling out Marvel's treatment of it's female characters is out of bounds or uncalled for at all) On reflection, I think the world was ready for the MCU to give us either Spider Gwen or Jessica Drew in Civil War rather than another Peter Parker reboot, and I wish Sony and Disney had been willing to take that risk. If the Venom-verse is different to the MCU / Peter Parker-verse maybe Gwen or Jessica can be introduced and get a solo gig through that route. Sony really needs a plan to bring one or both of them in as the main character in her own trilogy. But I wonder how a 3rd (or 4th if you consider Into the Spiderverse as being the main - current - vehicle for Miles Morales) continuity would work with audiences. Amy Pascal must have plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, felice said: Yes, some people do have legitimate issues with that shot. There are also misogynist assholes who hate it for other reasons, and calling them neanderthals is offensive to our prehistoric cousins! That's fair if the poster was calling out said misogynists, then clearly I've taken it the wrong way. My twitter-verse is a bit of a bubble so the criticism I've seen of that shot is the legitimate issues that article I linked brings up, as opposed to the misogynist takes ( I'm sure those takes are rather prevalent, even though I haven't seen them) 6 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: On reflection, I think the world was ready for the MCU to give us either Spider Gwen or Jessica Drew in Civil War rather than another Peter Parker reboot Yeah, I think that would have been rather cool. I'm not a comic book or marvel gun at all, so I don't know what the alternatives could have been, but honestly the into the spiderverse spiderman is really the only one I need. I think Tom Holland is good, but not great and the alternatives you mentioned would have been a really interesting direction to go in as we've seen the Peter Parker story *plenty* of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: On reflection, I think the world was ready for the MCU to give us either Spider Gwen or Jessica Drew in Civil War rather than another Peter Parker reboot, and I wish Sony and Disney had been willing to take that risk. If the Venom-verse is different to the MCU / Peter Parker-verse maybe Gwen or Jessica can be introduced and get a solo gig through that route. Sony really needs a plan to bring one or both of them in as the main character in her own trilogy. But I wonder how a 3rd (or 4th if you consider Into the Spiderverse as being the main - current - vehicle for Miles Morales) continuity would work with audiences. Amy Pascal must have plans. Pretty sure the reason is that the deal doesn't include any of the other spiders. Marvel gets to use Peter (and maybe green goblin, if phase 4 rumours are true). Additionally only the peter parker parker spider films are in the MCU. Spider-verse and venom are separate entities and while Peter is in spider-verse, Holland's version is pointedly left out. Jessica Drew is a very different character to Peter in terms of tone - she may fit the Avengers/Shield better but she isn't really a "fun" character. Spider-gwen may have worked as a substitute but then her origin would have to be the MCUs official Spidey world with warpred versions of antagonists. I think she works much better in spider-verse tbh and would rather we get solo films on the sony side. They still have to come up with a better name than spider-gwen/ghost-spider too. Spider(woman/girl) seem more natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 44 minutes ago, red snow said: Jessica Drew is a very different character to Peter in terms of tone - she may fit the Avengers/Shield better but she isn't really a "fun" character. Eh. I think if executed well, there's no reason ( except the rights issues you bring up) for it not to be the other characters. I mean, it's all a moot point right now but I think it would have been so refreshing to see a spider-women, no matter which character they would have gone for. Plus, the superheros on screen they don't have to follow their comic-books counterparts that closely, as long as it's executed well, I don't think anyone will have concerns re: someone not being a 'fun' character in the comics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 5 hours ago, Raja said: Eh. I think if executed well, there's no reason ( except the rights issues you bring up) for it not to be the other characters. I mean, it's all a moot point right now but I think it would have been so refreshing to see a spider-women, no matter which character they would have gone for. Plus, the superheros on screen they don't have to follow their comic-books counterparts that closely, as long as it's executed well, I don't think anyone will have concerns re: someone not being a 'fun' character in the comics. I'm all for other spider characters getting involved. Like i said, spider-woman is a better fit for the avengers - especially as a replacement for a recently deceased spider hero. But there's no way you do a deal with Sony and not put the worlds biggest selling merch superhero in the spotlight. And that's Peter Parker Spider-man. It would be like the MCU somehow getting hold of the batman rights and deciding to make a film about Robin joining the avengers and getting a solo film before doing bruce wayne Bat-man. This is ultimately a business decision. Hopefully some of the extended spider-verse characters will get to interact with the MCU but it all depends in the deal with Sony. If Sony manage to make more films as strong as into spider-verse, they may not want/need to share characters with the MCU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 16 hours ago, Raja said: Do you mean the one during the final fight? There have been several female critics that feel that that moment was pretty hollow. Calling them 'neanderthals' is a bit weird and offensive, in my opinion. And I totally get it, you might not agree with it but it's difficult to argue against those criticisms. I'm linking a piece that does a decent job in explaining why that might be problematic. ( If you're talking about a different scene, then fair enough, but honestly I don't think calling out Marvel's treatment of it's female characters is out of bounds or uncalled for at all) Yes, I was thinking about that scene, and I wasn't making a general assessment, as much as describing some people around me who had issues with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 15 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: On reflection, I think the world was ready for the MCU to give us either Spider Gwen or Jessica Drew in Civil War rather than another Peter Parker reboot, and I wish Sony and Disney had been willing to take that risk. If the Venom-verse is different to the MCU / Peter Parker-verse maybe Gwen or Jessica can be introduced and get a solo gig through that route. Sony really needs a plan to bring one or both of them in as the main character in her own trilogy. But I wonder how a 3rd (or 4th if you consider Into the Spiderverse as being the main - current - vehicle for Miles Morales) continuity would work with audiences. Amy Pascal must have plans. If I am completely honest, the most feminist thing Marvel has done was "Agent Carter". That said, movies with Peggy at the center would be both progressive and awesome. And having watched Captain Marvel, I would have preferred having her interacting with Carol than Fury. As great as Samuel L. Jackson was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Risto said: If I am completely honest, the most feminist thing Marvel has done was "Agent Carter". That said, movies with Peggy at the center would be both progressive and awesome. And having watched Captain Marvel, I would have preferred having her interacting with Carol than Fury. As great as Samuel L. Jackson was. For Phase 4 is makes sense for Carol to have Fury as her SHIELD liaison, since Carter is dead in the present time. So establishing the Fury-Danvers relationship was necessary. it would have been good for Carter to have been in the movie as a senior SHIELD agent and be in a scene or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Risto said: If I am completely honest, the most feminist thing Marvel has done was "Agent Carter". That said, movies with Peggy at the center would be both progressive and awesome. And having watched Captain Marvel, I would have preferred having her interacting with Carol than Fury. As great as Samuel L. Jackson was. On the one hand it's a shame the show never got to play more with hydra but if it had been on air until now it would have been derailed by endgame as there's not much chance chris evans would be in the show and they would have probably developed a romantic interest for carter in thr TV show which would have made things awkward whenever steve turned up. I'd never thought about having her in captain marvel. It would have been a nice counterpoint to deaging fury to have her bring aged. I'm trying to think of a case of digital ageing? Guess it's easier to smooth the face than wrinkle it but it might be an improvement over the usually ridiculous make-up they use to make people appear older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, red snow said: On the one hand it's a shame the show never got to play more with hydra but if it had been on air until now it would have been derailed by endgame as there's not much chance chris evans would be in the show and they would have probably developed a romantic interest for carter in thr TV show which would have made things awkward whenever steve turned up. I'd never thought about having her in captain marvel. It would have been a nice counterpoint to deaging fury to have her bring aged. I'm trying to think of a case of digital ageing? Guess it's easier to smooth the face than wrinkle it but it might be an improvement over the usually ridiculous make-up they use to make people appear older. Didn't they digital age her for Ant Man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Boston Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Robert Downey Jr. Announces Footprint Coalition to Clean Up the World With Advanced Tech I love Chris Evans and RDJ's attempts at becoming their characters in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 8 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: Didn't they digital age her for Ant Man? I can't even remember her being in Ant-man. Guess it was a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 2 hours ago, red snow said: I can't even remember her being in Ant-man. Guess it was a few years ago. She was at the beginning, with Howard when Pim came in and quit SHIELD. 12 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: For Phase 4 is makes sense for Carol to have Fury as her SHIELD liaison, since Carter is dead in the present time. So establishing the Fury-Danvers relationship was necessary. it would have been good for Carter to have been in the movie as a senior SHIELD agent and be in a scene or two. I understand... I only wish we had more Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 2 hours ago, red snow said: I can't even remember her being in Ant-man. Guess it was a few years ago. Hardly surprising, its a forgettable film. With the sequel being another great example of Marvel mishandling or not knowing what to do with female characters, i.e. Evangeline Lily and Michelle Pfeiffer who they made a glorified extra. Still annoyed by that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said: Hardly surprising, its a forgettable film. With the sequel being another great example of Marvel mishandling or not knowing what to do with female characters, i.e. Evangeline Lily and Michelle Pfeiffer who they made a glorified extra. Still annoyed by that I was going to make the forgetable dig myself but resisted. Ant-man and the wasp is the only MCU film I haven't watched in the cinema (ant Man was only because it was a free ticket). The waste of Michelle Pfeiffer stood out the most for me - what a waste. Also, just making wasp a better fighter does not mean she has equal standing in the film. This was of "and robin" where wasp is just a sidekick and the film was still very much ant-man's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I'm going to assume that there will be another Ant Man movie and that it will mainly feature Hope Van Dyne, in fact I think I saw rumours it would simply be a Wasp movie. I've got no problems with that, except that her character really hasn't been well written up to this point, and Evangeline Lilly is not on the same level of comedic charm as the wonderful Paul Rudd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I've no problem with Paul Rudd getting a lead role, he is undeniably charming in the role and a fun addition to the MCU. Doesn't mean the criminal waste of Michelle Pfeiffer should be overlooked though. And don't call your film "Ant Man and the Wasp" if 'the Wasp' is barely a character in it. Ant Man and the Wasp was a distinctly average and forgettable film but I get more annoyed by it in hindsight because of all the wasted opportunities and the talented cast. Walton Goggins man, why waster him on such a crap role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 27 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said: I've no problem with Paul Rudd getting a lead role, he is undeniably charming in the role and a fun addition to the MCU. Doesn't mean the criminal waste of Michelle Pfeiffer should be overlooked though. And don't call your film "Ant Man and the Wasp" if 'the Wasp' is barely a character in it. Evangeline Lilly was The Wasp, and she was in it plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I don't remember anything from that one. And i can't find the neil gaiman [stardust?] movie on TV anywhere, where Pfiefer was a witch and some stuff happened that was fly but which i also can't remember. One problem is they spend money on giving the microscopic world lots of nice visuals, but it stays just that, like a tour of various screensavers. Nobody cared to plot out what it would MEAN to interact with that miniverse, or what it would require of the traveler physically & mentally, or what its topography would imply for the future of science (would you return to normal space and say OMG, i see now how everything in our world is a bloated fractal of the microcosm, and the micro is a horror of absolute chaos with no secure harbor.... What would tiny worlds open up in the mind to traverse things on that scale, what exists there to be found and learned from and explored in any meaningful way. What we got was the special effects team tripping out like a cheech & chong lightshow. It was a shallow experience in the end, when a more George Martin realism approach could have made the microverse an infinitely more palpable and engrossing enigma to fear and wonder at long after viewing the movie. (back to the refrain: i instantly forgot whatever it was they served up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, The Mother of The Others said: And i can't find the neil gaiman [stardust?] movie on TV anywhere, where Pfiefer was a witch and some stuff happened that was fly but which i also can't remember. Please... Don't speak badly of Stardust. That one was... CLASSIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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