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Mon ami

Bowen's next decision

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Thread title: Bowen's next decision.

Crying Bowen is not in charge of nuttin'.

Bowen is a lackey.

There was a plan afoot to rid the NW of the Iron Throne's traitorous Eddard's bastard son long before Marsh stabbed Jon while shedding a tear.


Marsh isn't the brains behind the stabbing of LC Snow.

Knife one was Wick.     Knife two was crying Marsh.    Who welded knife three and four?

Interesting ideas, except I do not believe Jon died until martin writes it and I definitely do not believe Marsh orchestrated the attack. 

 

Completely agree. Marsh aint in charge of nuttin'.

I mean, hes in charge of counting turnips and he proved himself brave against the Weeper.  But I dont see any leadership qualities in him. Certainly not enough to convince three brothers to "regicide" in the span of what, 3 minutes? 

19 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

There was a plan afoot to rid the NW of the Iron Throne's traitorous Eddard's bastard son long before Marsh stabbed Jon while shedding a tear.

I can think of the 24 hours that Janos Slynt was supposed to get ready for his departure, that scene where he rambled on about his many friends. (He certainly had more CB votes then Jon) 

And Cersei made plans to send false brothers to the fall with the goal of killing Jon.

.

So to the op, if Bowen organized the coup immediately after the pink letter then hes a dead man, but thats extremely unlikely and im pretty sure he already made plans for 1, 3 and 4

Edited by Hugorfonics

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On 5/3/2019 at 5:56 PM, Mon ami said:

What needs to get accomplished within a short time:

  1. Bring the Night's Watch to order.
  2. Calm the feud between the Night's Watch and the House of Bolton.
  3. Get the Wildlings under control.
  4. Prepare for the Others.

#4 is not going to happen unless 1-3 have been addressed.

The brothers of the watch are not going to be a problem.  The watch will regroup quickly.  Bowen can't stop the Wildlings from going to war with the Boltons but he can send a raven to Winterfell with a warning.  The Wildlings are too wild to get in control.  Bowen doesn't have enough men to force them to stay and guard the wall.  

The only way he can calm the feud is send proof of Jon's death to the Boltons and tell the truth.  It was all Jon's doing.  He can send Jon's head to Ramsay.  But I don't know if the two bastards have met.  How would Ramsay know Jon's head?  How about sending Ghost's head with Jon's head.  That's strong proof it's Jon.  Is that enough?  I think so.  

 

All of the crows will support Bowen because anybody with sense know how destructive Jon's war with Ramsay would have been.  Jon was the one at fault.

The wildlings will ride to battle.  Bowen can't stop them but he can kill the berserk giant before it does any further harm. 

Ramsay and Jon possess conspicuously unusual physical traits.  Ramsay has his father's eyes and Jon has his father's long face.  One bastard will know the other.  Sending Jon's corpse to Ramsay is a good idea.  It's assurance of no further interference from the watch.  Bowen has no choice but to clean up Jon's mess.  He can't defend the wall without repairing Jon's damage. 

It's too late to annul the marriage of Lady Karstark to the Thenn but he can lay the blame on Jon.  Poor Aliser is missing two eyes now.  His was a suicide mission.  The Weeper got him.  Bowen can't rely on his help. 

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The first thing he will need to deal with is the riot that occurs moments after Jon is killed.  The wildings are going to go crazy, and Jon will still have loyal friends in the Watch.  Bowen is dead by sunrise.

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Completely agree. Marsh aint in charge of nuttin'.

I mean, hes in charge of counting turnips and he proved himself brave against the Weeper.  But I dont see any leadership qualities in him. Certainly not enough to convince three brothers to "regicide" in the span of what, 3 minutes? 

Thanks I think.   Hugo, me and ewe have bantered :D before. There are times that I dunna use proper english on porpoise. There are times I mess up and try to clean it up. :blush:

Sometimes I find it really difficult to stay on track with martin's books and ignore the you know what influence. Back before the you know what overtook the books there were posters, myself included, that thought Thorne was somehow involved in the attack on the LC.

As you may or may not have noticed no one has yapped about the third and forth knife.

In my opinion Marsh isn't the brains behind the plot of the stabbing of LC Snow.

The plot was in the works before the pink/bastard letter arrived.

Knife one was Wick.     Knife two was crying Marsh.    Who welded knife three and four?

If I backup a bit I notice that the giant is raging and men pored out of keeps and towers --- northmen, free folk, queen's men --- LC gives orders.

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII    Wun Wun did not hear or did not understand. The giant was bleeding himself, with sword cuts on his belly and his arm. He swung the dead knight against the grey stone of the tower, again and again and again, until the man's head was red and pulpy as a summer melon. The knight's cloak flapped in the cold air. Of white wool it had been, bordered in cloth-of-silver and patterned with blue stars. Blood and bone were flying everywhere.     Men poured from the surrounding keeps and towers. Northmen, free folk, queen's men … "Form a line," Jon Snow commanded them. "Keep them back. Everyone, but especially the queen's men." The dead man was Ser Patrek of King's Mountain; his head was largely gone, but his heraldry was as distinctive as his face. Jon did not want to risk Ser Malegorn or Ser Brus or any of the queen's other knights trying to avenge him.    Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun howled again and gave Ser Patrek's other arm a twist and pull. It tore loose from his shoulder with a spray of bright red blood. Like a child pulling petals off a daisy, thought Jon. "Leathers, talk to him, calm him. The Old Tongue, he understands the Old Tongue. Keep back, the rest of you. Put away your steel, we're scaring him." Couldn't they see the giant had been cut? Jon had to put an end to this or more men would die. They had no idea of Wun Wun's strength. A horn, I need a horn. He saw the glint of steel, turned toward it. "No blades!" he screamed. "Wick, put that knife …"/

What I have noticed dear Hugo is that the majority of thread posters now a day try to justify their opinions by using the you know what.

It ain't over till the fat man sings/writes.  But I will be gettin' me an ending soon.   :cheers:

 

 

 

Edited by Clegane'sPup

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Thanks I think.   Hugo, me and ewe have bantered :D before. There are times that I dunna use proper english on porpoise. There are times I mess up and try to clean it up. :blush:

Sometimes I find it really difficult to stay on track with martin's books and ignore the you know what influence. Back before the you know what overtook the books there were posters, myself included, that thought Thorne was somehow involved in the attack on the LC.

As you may or may not have noticed no one has yapped about the third and forth knife.

In my opinion Marsh isn't the brains behind the plot of the stabbing of LC Snow.

The plot was in the works before the pink/bastard letter arrived.

Knife one was Wick.     Knife two was crying Marsh.    Who welded knife three and four?

If I backup a bit I notice that the giant is raging and men pored out of keeps and towers --- northmen, free folk, queen's men --- LC gives orders.

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII    Wun Wun did not hear or did not understand. The giant was bleeding himself, with sword cuts on his belly and his arm. He swung the dead knight against the grey stone of the tower, again and again and again, until the man's head was red and pulpy as a summer melon. The knight's cloak flapped in the cold air. Of white wool it had been, bordered in cloth-of-silver and patterned with blue stars. Blood and bone were flying everywhere.     Men poured from the surrounding keeps and towers. Northmen, free folk, queen's men … "Form a line," Jon Snow commanded them. "Keep them back. Everyone, but especially the queen's men." The dead man was Ser Patrek of King's Mountain; his head was largely gone, but his heraldry was as distinctive as his face. Jon did not want to risk Ser Malegorn or Ser Brus or any of the queen's other knights trying to avenge him.    Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun howled again and gave Ser Patrek's other arm a twist and pull. It tore loose from his shoulder with a spray of bright red blood. Like a child pulling petals off a daisy, thought Jon. "Leathers, talk to him, calm him. The Old Tongue, he understands the Old Tongue. Keep back, the rest of you. Put away your steel, we're scaring him." Couldn't they see the giant had been cut? Jon had to put an end to this or more men would die. They had no idea of Wun Wun's strength. A horn, I need a horn. He saw the glint of steel, turned toward it. "No blades!" he screamed. "Wick, put that knife …"/

What I have noticed dear Hugo is that the majority of thread posters now a day try to justify their opinions by using the you know what.

It ain't over till the fat man sings/writes.  But I will be gettin' me an ending soon.   :cheers:

Nuttin but respect, young Clegane. We may banter but its all done for the dissection study and glory of asoiaf.

I typically write like I talk. In broken english and New York slang lol (speakin of ny, and this scene. Fun fact, GRRM had a bet with a friend of his, a Dallas Cowboy fan, the result was Ser Patrek wearing a blue star getting destroyed by a giant whos name sounds like veteran Phil Simms numbers. Nice nfl/jon becoming azor ahai easter egg; Go G-men!)

I stopped watching GoT before Jon got stabbed(, although I started again) but back in, idk maybe S3, alotta years ago, I tried studying the scene in question. And my main takeaway was where the fuck is Ser Alliser. 

So, Wun Wun, or Patrek, good distraction. Was it supposed to be? Its hard to proove one way or another. But it worked. No time for Longclaw. That warg who owned a boar was he in on it? Again, impossible to tell, but no Ghost.

Ok, knife 3 and 4. Wait backtrack. Clydas comes trembling over with Rams' letter, Jon reads it to Giantsbane. Jon and Giantsbane go to the main hall where Jon gives a not so well thought out speech. He leaves thinking super confident and overhears the screams of Patrek. 

Clydas makes a good case of being number 3, the ides of marsh as they say so it makes sense for Clydas to be a Brutus type. Enough of Snows tyranny of helping all humans and defending all sides of the wall, or whatever. 

Plausable theory, but its kinda stupid. The OP listed why. Like, angry wildlings are amassing their strength right now, and now they wanna kill their boss? Clydas? Lol the trembling guy who looks not so old when he stamds next to Aemon? And Marsh aint a fighter either, just a Turnipmonger. So, plans stupid. So we're left with whos 3 and 4. Well who hates Jon? Good old Ser "I promise ill be back" Thorne.

A friend and I once talked of the needless death in asoiaf. She said its not, every character dies to enhance the plot, from Ned to Nurse with all the Balons and Cleos Freys in between. But what about Janos? The man just lost a head.

Although... He lost the election because Pyke and Mallister (?) voted for themselves, and their entire garrison left behind(Marsh endorsed Janos, Clydas did not). He loved talking about his friends and Jon being ineligible for life let alone rule. He was given 24 hrs to pack where he swore hed be plotting. When push came to shove all eyes were on Ser Alliser. Jon wanted him to draw steel, he did not. 

What was Janos plotting? Idk. It didnt work well for him. All I know is if Janos was plotting, so was Thorne. (Janos was sent to the Wall along with a few of his friends, one was lost at sea, the others?)

Edited by Hugorfonics

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The allusions to Shakespear's Julius Caesar are too strong to ignore...

Just as Wick Whittlestick barely grazed Jon's neck with the first dagger, Casca was the first to cut Ceaser with a glancing cut to the neck. Just as Caesar caught Casca by the arm, Jon caught Wick's wrist. Just as Wick retreated and put his arms up, Casca was frighted and shouted for help. (That Jon understood this to mean that Wick was denying involvement was very curious. I'm not sure what to make of that other than Jon might have been mistaken.) That Bowen Marsh wept and claimed to be doing it for the Watch clearly alluded to Brutus...

Quote

"Let's kill him boldly, but not wrathfully; Let's carve him as a dish fit for the gods, Not hew him as a carcass fit for hounds:"

Wm Shakespeare, Julius Caesar 

And Brutus expected his fellow Romans to be glad, going so far as to persuade his fellow conspirators to ignore Mark Antony. Given the strong allusion to the assassination of Julius Caesar I'm assuming that Bowen will expect his brothers to be glad. I don't think he has a plan.

And much like Brutus was forced to flee Rome in short order I think Bowen is in a very, very tight spot, because Tormund is set to play the role of Mark Antony. I would expect him to whip the wildings into a frenzy against Marsh and the other conspirators. 

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On 5/3/2019 at 10:56 PM, Mon ami said:

What needs to get accomplished within a short time:

  1. Bring the Night's Watch to order.
  2. Calm the feud between the Night's Watch and the House of Bolton.
  3. Get the Wildlings under control.
  4. Prepare for the Others.

#4 is not going to happen unless 1-3 have been addressed.

The brothers of the watch are not going to be a problem.  The watch will regroup quickly.  Bowen can't stop the Wildlings from going to war with the Boltons but he can send a raven to Winterfell with a warning.  The Wildlings are too wild to get in control.  Bowen doesn't have enough men to force them to stay and guard the wall.  

The only way he can calm the feud is send proof of Jon's death to the Boltons and tell the truth.  It was all Jon's doing.  He can send Jon's head to Ramsay.  But I don't know if the two bastards have met.  How would Ramsay know Jon's head?  How about sending Ghost's head with Jon's head.  That's strong proof it's Jon.  Is that enough?  I think so.  

 


1. I don't believe it's possible to restore order. I suspect Bowen has a plan but Jon's murder seemed like a desperate act. It would of been smarter to do it somewhere out of the way. He could of bought some time. Instead, he will certainly be answering to Mel and her Queens men, the Free Folk, Ghost and maybe even Stannis if he is at all successful. Wun Wun too, I hope.

2. Again, I just do not believe it is possible. The Boltons will expect 'something' from Marsh. If the letter is to be believed, then Ramsey wants what Bowen does not possess. He can't make Selyse or Mel or anyone march off to WF without first fighting them and the wildlings too.

3. I don't think a man like Marsh could ever endear himself to the Wildlings. He'd need to find a person they would listen to.

4. I suspect Bowen is perfect for setting up the defences and running the Wall on a day to day basis. But preparing for the ultimate enemy is clearly beyond him. He isn't prepared to break tradition in order to achieve their goals.  

You say he needs to accomplish 1 - 3 in order to achieve no.4. But i think achieving the first three will make no. 4 impossible. The alliance at the wall exists primarily because of Jon. The Pink letter was addressed to a person who could meet the demands. Bowen simply cannot meet them.
Bowen doesn't value any of the alliances that Jon has made. And throughout adwd, Bowen opposed almost everything Jon wanted to do. He never provides a viable alternative. His solution is to just go back to the way things were. Team Jon, for lack of a better term, need to act fast.

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3 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

4. I suspect Bowen is perfect for setting up the defences and running the Wall on a day to day basis. But preparing for the ultimate enemy is clearly beyond him. He isn't prepared to break tradition in order to achieve their goals.  

I would say that he's not actually perfect for setting up the defense. Almost half of Jon's comments when he's in command of the Wall are "We (Bowen Marsh) should have built these things. Or done this thing." The trebuchets were set up poorly, there were many different pieces of counter-siege equipment that should have been built and weren't. He left Castle Black with a pitiful garrison that would not have been able to hold the Wall without Donal Noye's ability and Jon Snow's training and leadership. (the second factor he could not predict.) Ironically, Bowen Marsh's complaints are largely self-defeating. Jon/Stannis's policy of settling wildlings in the Gift is the answer to the problem of not having enough turnips. They also solve the problem of not having enough stewards and builders to repair the Wall, that's thousands of people able to cut back the woods and haul lumber and stone to build things. 

You're right about the tradition thing. At some point people who can read need to sit down with a map and look at the Wall and the map of Beyond-the-Wall. 

They need to ask themselves "If the Wall was meant to stop these wildlings why doesn't it go through the Frostfangs to the western shore? Why is the Gorge left unblocked? Why aren't there forts and watchtowers in the Frostfangs? Most importantly explain the Fist of the First Men, It's existence does not line up with the known history of the Age of Heroes and the Dawn Age. 

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5 hours ago, CAllDSmith said:

I would say that he's not actually perfect for setting up the defense. Almost half of Jon's comments when he's in command of the Wall are "We (Bowen Marsh) should have built these things. Or done this thing." The trebuchets were set up poorly, there were many different pieces of counter-siege equipment that should have been built and weren't. He left Castle Black with a pitiful garrison that would not have been able to hold the Wall without Donal Noye's ability and Jon Snow's training and leadership. (the second factor he could not predict.) Ironically, Bowen Marsh's complaints are largely self-defeating. Jon/Stannis's policy of settling wildlings in the Gift is the answer to the problem of not having enough turnips. They also solve the problem of not having enough stewards and builders to repair the Wall, that's thousands of people able to cut back the woods and haul lumber and stone to build things. 

You're right about the tradition thing. At some point people who can read need to sit down with a map and look at the Wall and the map of Beyond-the-Wall. 

They need to ask themselves "If the Wall was meant to stop these wildlings why doesn't it go through the Frostfangs to the western shore? Why is the Gorge left unblocked? Why aren't there forts and watchtowers in the Frostfangs? Most importantly explain the Fist of the First Men, It's existence does not line up with the known history of the Age of Heroes and the Dawn Age. 


I was being far too nice to Bowen, there. You are correct in that he didn't make a good job of holding the wall in Joer's absence. I suppose I sympathise with Bowen to some extent. I see him as that guy who dutifully kept up with his tasks until one day a magical teenager comes along and basically surpasses him. My point would be that if we remove the threat of the 'Others', then there is no Mance gathering FF to move south, no 'Great Ranging'. Mormont remains at the wall; They continue to deflect the Wildings. The Wall remains in decline, but it wouldn't be Bowen's fault. I don't think he'd be a bad LC. It'd just be more of the same. Which incidentally, is bad. 

And I agree re the turnips. How people in a feudal time allowed such a vast amount of land to become so unproductive is a bit of a mystery to me. 

I think you're shooting fish in a barrel with with any criticism, of the wall itself. It's absolutely f*cking indefensible and clearly not meant to act as a physical barrier when you can just sail around the bloody thing. What I choose to take from it is this. The Targaryens went through a lot in-order to bring Dorne under their control. But not so with north of the wall. It was just left as something the northerners do. Comparatively, north of the wall is far richer in resources than Dorne. What's the deal with that? Alysanne's dragon refused to fly over the thing. And that's all we know. 

And I'm curious. What do you mean re: The Fist of the First Men? 

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4 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

And I agree re the turnips. How people in a feudal time allowed such a vast amount of land to become so unproductive is a bit of a mystery to me. 

I think you're shooting fish in a barrel with with any criticism, of the wall itself. It's absolutely f*cking indefensible and clearly not meant to act as a physical barrier when you can just sail around the bloody thing. What I choose to take from it is this. The Targaryens went through a lot in-order to bring Dorne under their control. But not so with north of the wall. It was just left as something the northerners do. Comparatively, north of the wall is far richer in resources than Dorne. What's the deal with that? Alysanne's dragon refused to fly over the thing. And that's all we know. 

And I'm curious. What do you mean re: The Fist of the First Men? 

As for the first part the raiding and the raping. Plus winters would be harder and no net to catch them. I'd guess it actually happened during the Dance. The resettlement in the Riverlands pulled the resources and people away. My point was that obviously it wasn't meant to stop wildlings so that should be taken as proof by the NW that the wildings aren't the biggest problem. North is only richer in some resources. Dorne has luxuries but not huge amounts of staples. 

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Bowen might have a choice.Where he wants to be buried.The Wall or somewhere near the Wall.

No,they should be pragmatic and just burn his remains.

Why are we wasting time over this turnip counting fuckwit?

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I think Satin was a conspirator.Jon said he was being a little bit off lately,not being a good steward.

I think he drugged  Jon and stabbed him (the 3rd knife).That stupid kid in the tv show had a similar role.

 

Maybe he was a littlefinger agent since the beginning,maybe he betrayed Jon to be accepted by older members of the watch,who knows?

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On 5/3/2019 at 5:56 PM, Mon ami said:

 

Jon looks like a Stark male.  Ramsay would know that look.  The long face is a dead give away.  

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Marsh and his cronies stabbed Jon in front of his good friend Wun Wun, outside of a mess hall filled with angry wildlings (Jon had just read them the pink letter and there was an uproar) who are friends with the Lord Commander. 

I don't see many scenarios where any of the mutineers survive.

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Bowen and co are dead meat. Between the crows loyal to Jon + the free folk, it will be a bloodbath, and it will be delightful to see it play out. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/7/2019 at 10:08 PM, redriver said:

Bowen might have a choice.Where he wants to be buried.The Wall or somewhere near the Wall.

No,they should be pragmatic and just burn his remains.

Why are we wasting time over this turnip counting fuckwit?

Because it had been almost a month since the last Jon/Stark hate thread, and the Bowen fans, Janos Slynt supporters, and Ramsay is awesome club thought that was way too long.  :dunno:

Edited by kissdbyfire

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It depends on his initial plan, the number of supporters he has, and if he can get away in time.

Assuming that he controls a large portion of the stewards in castle Black, then he has a pretty good chance. I imagine that no one knows the place better than them. They are also the largest group in CB and assumedly spend most of their time in the Castle. The stewards could likely use the scarcely used tunnels to their advantage. Jon supporters inside of CB could be taken out due to being confused, red wedding style. If they are able to lock/barricade themselves inside of important portions of CB, then they may be able to secure themselves in. Being locked out of storage areas, and winter emerging, Jon and Stannis supporters would be unable to hold a siege. After that, their best hope would be temporarily joining Stannis so that they can later retake CB. Jon supporters north of the wall would be pretty screwed.

There's a lot of ifs and variables to this idea, I don't think that it'll happen. I just thought that it would be cool to describe a potential Night's Watch civil war (Battle of Night?)

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Aurane said:

It depends on his initial plan, the number of supporters he has, and if he can get away in time.

Assuming that he controls a large portion of the stewards in castle Black, then he has a pretty good chance. I imagine that no one knows the place better than them. They are also the largest group in CB and assumedly spend most of their time in the Castle. The stewards could likely use the scarcely used tunnels to their advantage. Jon supporters inside of CB could be taken out due to being confused, red wedding style. If they are able to lock/barricade themselves inside of important portions of CB, then they may be able to secure themselves in. Being locked out of storage areas, and winter emerging, Jon and Stannis supporters would be unable to hold a siege. After that, their best hope would be temporarily joining Stannis so that they can later retake CB. Jon supporters north of the wall would be pretty screwed.

There's a lot of ifs and variables to this idea, I don't think that it'll happen. I just thought that it would be cool to describe a potential Night's Watch civil war (Battle of Night?)

I think if bowen wanted to pull a red wedding then his plan was busted by wun wun. I don t have the chapter in front of me, but from memory and previous discussions jon left the hall shortly after his speech (so people can t be drunk) and wun wun was making a lot of noise and it atracted lots of people.

This means that a conflict will begin imediatly and even if he had a plan for the people in the hall the wildlings and queensmen outside can save them...

Then marsh had another huge problem. The stewards are the worst fighters around and seem to be cowards…

The way I see it we will read about how marsh's plan was ruined by wun wun and that everybody was lucky to escape alive… All because a queensmen decided to try to kidnap val...

Could it be that mel manipulated that dude to kidnap val so that the plan gets disturbed? I had never thought of this...

Edited by divica

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30 minutes ago, divica said:

I think if bowen wanted to pull a red wedding then his plan was busted by wun wun. I don t have the chapter in front of me, but from memory and previous discussions jon left the hall shortly after his speech (so people can t be drunk) and wun wun was making a lot of noise and it atracted lots of people.

This means that a conflict will begin imediatly and even if he had a plan for the people in the hall the wildlings and queensmen outside can save them...

Then marsh had another huge problem. The stewards are the worst fighters around and seem to be cowards…

The way I see it we will read about how marsh's plan was ruined by wun wun and that everybody was lucky to escape alive… All because a queensmen decided to try to kidnap val...

Could it be that mel manipulated that dude to kidnap val so that the plan gets disturbed? I had never thought of this...

Stewards are pretty cowardly, but if they follow Marsh's ideology, then they're way more afraid of the Boltons, Wildlings and KL then the remaining members of Castle Black. They're terrible fighters when compared to the others, but a lot of the Rangers would assumedly be patrolling outside, or just leaving the shield hall. This would leave them vulnerable to being locked out. If their plan is to secure the supplies needed to hold out a siege, they could use the tunnels connecting rooms in Castle Black to secure the rooms that they need. Battling in narrow tunnels would largely reduce the need of skill in swordplay. I can't see a scenario in which Bowen lasts more then 20 minutes after the assassination though. I suppose that he views himself as a martyr anyways. They may be trying to win Ramsay's favour after the pink letter. Again, I'm basically thinking of a best possible plan for Marsh, assuming he has sizable support and taking into account his resources. It could just be him and a few others that are in on it. 

Wun Wun would be a giant wildcard regardless of what Bowen's plan is. He'll probably smash Bowen for killing Jon, but after that, who knows? He's already killed one Queen's man. He may think that the others had something to do with the assassination as well, as they were just standing there. I beleive that Jon and the mutineers are between Wun Wun and the crowd. If the crowd start unsheathing their weapons and charge in his direction, he's not going to take well to that.

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