Why the Night King Didn't Fight Jon

[LucyMormont]

My take on this is that he chose not to take the risk. He was stronger than Jon, but also saw him kill a WW, so why would he risk himself in a one on one fight? 

We see that he tried to have Jon killed before, when he was going to the Godswood and Jon attacks him and there was that little Dance of Dragons, Rhaegal went for Viserion, while Viserion defended himself, but went for Jon. As an undead Dragon, that had to be under direction of the Night King, so to speak. For about a while it looked as if the main target for Viserion was Jon, that seemed strange to me. 

And later, the NK also sent Viserion and a ton of whigts on Jon's path. He didn't want a direct fight with him

 

[YoungGriff89]

I took the scene where Bran warged the ravens and then they flew over to the Night King as some kind of hint he was working with him.  Feeding him information pretty much.  For a second it crossed my mind that maybe the whole idea that fire killed the wights was a ruse, and that the trench idea was actually a carefully laid plan to get the living to trap themselves behind a ring of Fire.  I wonder if there wasn’t something to it, and the white walkers held off because Bran revealed to them that the living had dragon glass and Valyrian steel.  It’s just as possible the Night King remembered what happened at Hardhome with Jon and the white walker, but it’s episode three and this whole story has been set up since the show’s opening scene.  The idea that it’s really over just doesn’t feel right, I can’t shake the feeling there is another twist coming with the Night King.  

[darmody]

He certainly tried to kill Jon, what with raising a bunch of zombies around him. I'm thinking he didn't give fight because he was busy and didn't have projectile weapons on hand. 

Dude was so mission-oriented that he didn't even see the flying squirrel coming. 

[darmody]

11 minutes ago, YoungGriff89 said:

I took the scene where Bran warged the ravens and then they flew over to the Night King as some kind of hint he was working with him.  Feeding him information pretty much.  For a second it crossed my mind that maybe the whole idea that fire killed the wights was a ruse, and that the trench idea was actually a carefully laid plan to get the living to trap themselves behind a ring of Fire.  I wonder if there wasn’t something to it, and the white walkers held off because Bran revealed to them that the living had dragon glass and Valyrian steel.  It’s just as possible the Night King remembered what happened at Hardhome with Jon and the white walker, but it’s episode three and this whole story has been set up since the show’s opening scene.  The idea that it’s really over just doesn’t feel right, I can’t shake the feeling there is another twist coming with the Night King.  

Bran couldn't be bothered to feed them the information about Arya? 

[YoungGriff89]

37 minutes ago, darmody said:

Bran couldn't be bothered to feed them the information about Arya? 

Lol I didn’t say he definitely did it, it’s just a thought that crossed my mind.  My mind goes places really elaborate and I have a history of spur of the moment conspiracies being hit or miss.  I figured at the end of season four Jaime was going to take a kingsguard member to Dorne to retrieve Myrcella.  I was kind of right, he went and took Bronn.  I figured Arya in season six was being portrayed in No One by Jaqen.  Totally wrong.  

[Jora the Explorer]

I agree the NK didn't fight Jon  didn't because he didn't have too.....even IF Jon had a 1 in 2, 5 or 10 chance of destroying him etc ....he knows Jon posses a weapon capable of it.......why take the risk, when he didn't need to.....and in line with his modus operandi he tends to hang back let the wights do their job....he didn't even send a single  WW in with the Wights, as he knew he could loose him......and that is the difference between Hearthhome, and Winterfell.....at the former he sent one WW into combat, maybe to see if anyone had a weapon capable of killing himself, and the WWs, and he got his answer......

[Winterz]

 

5 hours ago, YoungGriff89 said:

I took the scene where Bran warged the ravens and then they flew over to the Night King as some kind of hint he was working with him.  Feeding him information pretty much.  For a second it crossed my mind that maybe the whole idea that fire killed the wights was a ruse, and that the trench idea was actually a carefully laid plan to get the living to trap themselves behind a ring of Fire.  I wonder if there wasn’t something to it, and the white walkers held off because Bran revealed to them that the living had dragon glass and Valyrian steel.  It’s just as possible the Night King remembered what happened at Hardhome with Jon and the white walker, but it’s episode three and this whole story has been set up since the show’s opening scene.  The idea that it’s really over just doesn’t feel right, I can’t shake the feeling there is another twist coming with the Night King.  

Nah. Bran used the ravens so the NK would pursue him.

[Dragon Glass]

15 hours ago, darmody said:

Not sure why the Valyrian steel holders besides Arya and Jon weren't involved in any action where Valyrian steel was necessary. Why does the show take care to show us where these swords are and who possesses them, then bring most of them together (Joffrey's is missing, I think, and there are probably otgers) without it amounting to anything. Jaime, Brienne, and Jorah should have fought White Walkers. 

Or did that part of the budget go to something else?

They probably were showcasing each of the Valyrian steel weapons to hide the identity of who would be the one to kill the Night King. There have been theories that Jon, Brienne, Jorah, Jaime, and even the Hound were going to be the one to kill the Night King. Each theory outlined why they were Azor Ahai. 

After Bran gave the dagger to Arya  I figured that she would kill the NK but I thought it would happen after or during a fight between Jon and the NK. The picture of the dagger in the book that Sam was reading at the Citadel and the fact that it was used in an attempt to kill Bran seemed to put it at the top of the list of weapons.

 

[Lord Lannister]

On 5/5/2019 at 6:33 AM, Jora the Explorer said:

I agree the NK didn't fight Jon  didn't because he didn't have too.....even IF Jon had a 1 in 2, 5 or 10 chance of destroying him etc ....he knows Jon posses a weapon capable of it.......why take the risk, when he didn't need to.....and in line with his modus operandi he tends to hang back let the wights do their job....he didn't even send a single  WW in with the Wights, as he knew he could loose him......and that is the difference between Hearthhome, and Winterfell.....at the former he sent one WW into combat, maybe to see if anyone had a weapon capable of killing himself, and the WWs, and he got his answer......

I'd buy that logic if he then didn't proceed to turn around and walk into the battle. He has a limitless army with the ability to respawn, that can only be defeated if he goes down. But he risks total defeat because he has to personally kill Bran.... for reasons. 

[BlackLightning]

LOL at everyone in this thread who is seriously trying to make this whole Night King plotline make sense after it spectacularly failed to make sense onscreen.

[Dynas]

Just rewatched this episode again. 

Why is it in every Fantasy/Sci Fi as soon as you kill the big baddie all their minions die to? Such cliche. 

Why would the NK even put himself at risk? Why does he personally have to kill Bran? WHy cant he just use his undead armies, or maybe send a Wight  or even White Walker Lieutenant to kill him. Or have his dragon just dive bomb the Weirwood forest and breath fire and burn that tree and everyone in the gods wood to dust. 

Is it me or is Arya killing the NK a Deus ex Machina. It was completely out of left field. Jons villian and story is the NK, Arya is meant to take down Cersei.

And dont get me started on the tactics. Why would you not have the fire ring lit at the beginning of the battle? WHy are the artillery pieces not inside the walls. WHy not put the UNsullied on the walls with everyone else given a bow and arrow. 

Have the Dothraki charge in from the flank after they begin the assault on winterfell. Have the dragons join them. 

You have literally the greatest military minds in all of Westeros (several of them) all in one spot and this is the plan they come up with. Jon fought several battles and experience first hand the effectiveness of shield wall and cav charges. NOt to mention fighting the WW. Jaime, Davos, Tyrion, all veterans of multiple battles. Even if tyrion didn't fight a lot he knows how to plan. Hell even Dany has conquered and won multiple battles/seiges. Grey Worm solider for life. 

WTF?

[Aldarion]

4 hours ago, Dynas said:

Just rewatched this episode again. 

Why is it in every Fantasy/Sci Fi as soon as you kill the big baddie all their minions die to? Such cliche. 

Why would the NK even put himself at risk? Why does he personally have to kill Bran? WHy cant he just use his undead armies, or maybe send a Wight  or even White Walker Lieutenant to kill him. Or have his dragon just dive bomb the Weirwood forest and breath fire and burn that tree and everyone in the gods wood to dust. 

 Is it me or is Arya killing the NK a Deus ex Machina. It was completely out of left field. Jons villian and story is the NK, Arya is meant to take down Cersei.

And dont get me started on the tactics. Why would you not have the fire ring lit at the beginning of the battle? WHy are the artillery pieces not inside the walls. WHy not put the UNsullied on the walls with everyone else given a bow and arrow. 

Have the Dothraki charge in from the flank after they begin the assault on winterfell. Have the dragons join them. 

You have literally the greatest military minds in all of Westeros (several of them) all in one spot and this is the plan they come up with. Jon fought several battles and experience first hand the effectiveness of shield wall and cav charges. NOt to mention fighting the WW. Jaime, Davos, Tyrion, all veterans of multiple battles. Even if tyrion didn't fight a lot he knows how to plan. Hell even Dany has conquered and won multiple battles/seiges. Grey Worm solider for life. 

WTF?

1) You could say it is lazy writing, but not just that. In much of fantasy, enemy is made to be overly powerful - nearly impossible to beat. That leads to a sense of desperate struggle against evil - desperation, darkest hour, etc. So you have to search for another way to beat the enemy: the One Ring, killing the Night King, etc. But if doing that only killed the leader... you will have achieved jack s**t. You have to have a way of eliminating the Hordes of Evil^TM on the cheap if you want good guys to have any chance of winning.

2) Because Dumb and Dumber couldn't think of a better way for Arya to kill the Night King? And keep in mind, they wanted Arya to be one to kill him.

3) They had Arya kill him because GIRL POWAH! That is pretty much what they said in an interview, IIRC.

4) Hollywood Tactics, unfortunately. Showrunners went with what looks good, not with what makes sense.

[Timm]

21 hours ago, Dynas said:

(...)

Is it me or is Arya killing the NK a Deus ex Machina. It was completely out of left field. Jons villian and story is the NK, Arya is meant to take down Cersei.

(...)

WTF?

That is exactly what it was. That's why she flew in from out of shot at a high level.

D + D actually think they are being clever here by alluding to the original meaning of that phrase: God from the Machine.

From Wiki:

Quote

The term was coined from the conventions of Greek tragedy, where a machine is used to bring actors playing gods onto the stage. The machine could be either a crane (mechane) used to lower actors from above or a riser that brought actors up through a trapdoor. Preparation to pick up the actors was done behind the "skene". The idea was introduced by Aeschylus and was used often to resolve the conflict and conclude the drama. Although the device is associated mostly with Greek tragedy, it also appeared in comedies.

 

[JohnWyatt]

Given what appeared to me to be D&D's hurry to put some of the fantasy elements to bed, I wonder if they set aside these questions with the thought, "Ah, let the prequels figure it out..."

[RYShh]

My take is that Jon couldn't defeat Night King in a fair fight, so they killed Night King by using a sneak attack. As far as we know, Night King killed a dragon by throwing an ice spear to at least 100 meters above like a scorpion/ballista throw, and he is capable of instantly killing Theon by breaking Theon's spear barehanded, and without even using his sword, and then caught Arya's sneak attack barehanded again but failed to stop her blade turning move due to bad positioning which defeated him. We've seen that Arya can get close to Jon without even Jon realizing her, Arya's sneaking moves are very solid, yet Night King caught her.

Jon defeated 2 White Walkers before, but Night King seems completely different than the rest as he turned all of the White Walkers by himself. Night King's portrayal was a solid powerhouse that take down anyone in a straight fight, the guy survived a fall from 100 meters and then smiled at Drogon's flame which can melt the castles easily, and make Daenerys to run away while riding a dragon. So, not even a Dragonrider could take him in a straight fight, so no matter how skilled (and famous according to Ramsay) Jon as a swordsman he couldn't take Night King by himself as well. They needed a trick, a professional Faceless men assassin to take down him down.

[chatty83]

This isn't what the showrunners intended but only way it makes sense is if NK and his goons are actually good guys or at least tweeners. Their only goal is to kill Bran or the TER as he now is and they have waged war with the TER for over a century. In that time they've never actually been overly fussed with killing humankind or the children of the forest. For one, Wildlings and Thenn are on their side of the wall and they haven't killed them en masse when it could easily be done. The COTF are on that side of the wall as well and seem to be less powered than the WWs so why haven't they just wiped all them out up until now?

The TER has been turned into a tree so was hidden and it took Bran for them to find him and instantly they were there looking to kill him. On discovery that bran was now the TER they then turn their attention to him. other than through the prophecy of the first war that created the wall have the WWs actually even ever attempted to cross the wall, theirs no real mention of it iirc, only time I can think of is the wight in Castle Black.

So once Bran is back on the south of the wall that's when they take action to get across there. Once across if their real purpose was to destroy humanity then why didn't they avoid WF and head south continually destroying humanity and building their army bigger before coming back on Bran, The only reason is that NK is so desperate to get to Bran he takes unnecessary risks to do so - he exposes himself, he heads straight their instead of persisting in building his army and taking the threat level down, he even goes to kill him himself despite having control over the thousands of  WWs and Wights who are all in Brans area. Only reason being is he must have to kill Bran himself (or hes dumb as hell which wasn't very apparent until this episode).

Exploring Bran a bit more, he has persistently acted like a bad guy anyway, he manipulates people from the off, he uses his powers to effect the past and present  so why not the future. he manipulated his whole family into making him King.

1. He was the one who insisted that Sam tell Jon about being Aegon creating conflict with Dany.
2. The conflict with Dany turned her mad and thus killed many innocents whilst freeing up the throne (killing Cersei and herself).
3. Manipulated Sansa by exposing Jons secret third handidly knowing she wanted the North to herself and would exploit this.
4. Manipulate Arya with the dagger, giving her belief she was the PTWP and again giv her the resolve to set off over the other side of the world after doing his bidding.
5. Manipulated Tyrion into naming him King
6. Pior to this he manipulates a multitiude of people on his journey - JoJen, Meera, Hodor, Jaime, Osha in diferent ways.

Plus you have Brans prophecy - he wont walk but will fly then makes a comment that he can control Drogon at the end, very apt. He also states he has no interest in lordship but then lets Tyrion know he travelled with the purpose of being called King.

Bran or TER is evil imo and will wreak havok on the kingdom as King and all his potential slayers either under Stockholm syndrome or sent packing out of the way of being a threat.

Hell the evil little shit told his own sister she looked beautiful whilst having her virginity raped out of her. Brans a creep and the real big bad of the show.