bloodsteel bitterraven Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 In the after the episode special for episode 3, Weiss (one of the two producers of the show) claimed that the demise of the Dothraki army was also the end of their civilization. Many here have said, that this was an easy solution for Weiss and Benioff, on how to solve the problem of assimilating a foreign culture to Westeros, and while that may true, I have seen a lot of comments about how this is really no different than what western culture has been doing for centuries when encountering indigenous or any other type of different culture. Am I the only who found what Dumb and Dumber (Benioff and Weiss) did extremely problematic, even racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I don't think its racist, we all know they did it for the visual, they don't care about the Dothraki and there is no way that such an issue of how to integrate a roaming band of marauders into Westeros would ever be brought up in the show, they don't bother resolve actual plot lines they develop let alone theoretical post show issues. That said, they did the Dothraki dirty in the show for a long time. In the book, Dany still has her blood riders and her handmaidens, who add braids to her hair when she wins a battle, she has absorbed strength and understanding from their culture, even if she disapproves of much of it. It would have been very easy for the show to give a secondary or tertiary speaking role to a Dothraki, have the Dothraki at the war council and have a segment in ep. 1 or 2 where we see the Dothraki getting ready for battle, and maybe spend 15 minutes coming up with a less stupid, less suicidal method for using their calvalry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinscS2 Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 They did have a "Dothraki speaker/face" in Qhono, but he did't really say all that much. While I wouldn't mind seeing more from the dothraki's perspective, at the same time, I feel like I got enough of them in S1-S2 and S6. Their culture (on the show at least) was based around strength, violence, rape and slavery. From a modern perspective I say good riddance. While having more or less all of them offed in the way that happened (which isn't really that implausible given what we know about dothraki culture: they're impetuous, reckless, undisciplined and arrogant. Charging on impulse into the night against an unknown enemy and getting slaughtered doesn't really seem like a stretch) seems like an easy way out for the writers, it does solve the issues of food and how to assimilate them into Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterz Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I suppose the extermination of the Knights of the Vale and Night's Watch is kind of irrelevant at this point. Because they were ... white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 So what happened to the Dothraki women and children?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dragon10 Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: So what happened to the Dothraki women and children?... Yeah, exactly. It makes no sense to me that the whole civilization would be wiped out just because the warriors were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaith Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 7 hours ago, MinscS2 said: They did have a "Dothraki speaker/face" in Qhono, but he did't really say all that much. While I wouldn't mind seeing more from the dothraki's perspective, at the same time, I feel like I got enough of them in S1-S2 and S6. Their culture (on the show at least) was based around strength, violence, rape and slavery. From a modern perspective I say good riddance. While having more or less all of them offed in the way that happened (which isn't really that implausible given what we know about dothraki culture: they're impetuous, reckless, undisciplined and arrogant. Charging on impulse into the night against an unknown enemy and getting slaughtered doesn't really seem like a stretch) seems like an easy way out for the writers, it does solve the issues of food and how to assimilate them into Westeros. I'm not sure if anyone remembered the name of Qhono. We never get the Dothraki's perspective on why they should follow the woman that killed all the khals with a brazier rather than kill her on the spot. Doesn't it show a problem if rape and pillage is all that comes across? They shouldn't have been a cultural monolith in the first place. And it was apparently the plans of the Northern Lords, Dany, and then Melisandre's lighting of their arakhs which made them charge. Nobody reacted like this was undermining the battle plans, so you can't say that was "reckless." Anyway, I, too, want to know where the female and child Dothraki are now. And is the Great Grass Sea just... abandoned after Dany shipped all of the Dothraki in the world to Westeros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Vaith said: I'm not sure if anyone remembered the name of Qhono. We never get the Dothraki's perspective on why they should follow the woman that killed all the khals with a brazier rather than kill her on the spot. Doesn't it show a problem if rape and pillage is all that comes across? They shouldn't have been a cultural monolith in the first place. And it was apparently the plans of the Northern Lords, Dany, and then Melisandre's lighting of their arakhs which made them charge. Nobody reacted like this was undermining the battle plans, so you can't say that was "reckless." Anyway, I, too, want to know where the female and child Dothraki are now. And is the Great Grass Sea just... abandoned after Dany shipped all of the Dothraki in the world to Westeros? Qhono's the name of the Dothraki who was observing the battle where Daenerys, Drogon and the Dothraki (yay alliteration) attacked the supply train, who tells Tyrion "your people can't fight." Bit arrogant really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 8 hours ago, Cas Stark said: I don't think its racist, we all know they did it for the visual, they don't care about the Dothraki and there is no way that such an issue of how to integrate a roaming band of marauders into Westeros would ever be brought up in the show, they don't bother resolve actual plot lines they develop let alone theoretical post show issues. That said, they did the Dothraki dirty in the show for a long time. In the book, Dany still has her blood riders and her handmaidens, who add braids to her hair when she wins a battle, she has absorbed strength and understanding from their culture, even if she disapproves of much of it. It would have been very easy for the show to give a secondary or tertiary speaking role to a Dothraki, have the Dothraki at the war council and have a segment in ep. 1 or 2 where we see the Dothraki getting ready for battle, and maybe spend 15 minutes coming up with a less stupid, less suicidal method for using their calvalry. Agree 100%. It wasn’t racism, just a poorly written underdeveloped plot because the show runners don’t care or can’t handle too many plot lines, possibly both. 4 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: So what happened to the Dothraki women and children?... Fell through one of the gigantic plot holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T and A Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 The tactics in Season 8 Episode 3 reminded me of the tactics in the South Park Movie: "Operation Human shield". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Tanner Jr Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Perhaps we should ask some actual Dothraki if they were offended by this? What? There are no actual Dothraki? The Dothraki are an entirely fictional people, and not one actual Dothraki has ever existed in the universe? How can it be racism, then? Should we also be alarmed at the treatment of the Orcs in Lord of the Rings? Even if we bring up the 'they represent indigenous people' argument, A. they are not indigenous to Westeros, and are in fact an occupying army. B Westeros is not Earth, and does not have the same racial baggage that Earth has. There was no Columbus or Conquistadors, 7th Cavalry etc. Besides, for a violent, warlike culture of proud impulsive warriors who all want to outdo each other in feats of bravery, charging blindly into an enemy lurking in darkness is not all that far fetched of an idea. Any women and children remaining would be assimilated into Westerosi culture, scattered far and wide, and most of their own culture would indeed be lost except for the odd scrap of legend. Why try to spoil a work of complete fiction by dragging in modern PC standards of thinking? Not fun at all. Why don't we consider the implications of sexism on the part of the Dothraki? I saw plenty of women among the ranks of the Northlands warriors. Not one woman rode among the Dothraki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btfu806 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Well, half the dothraki are still alive somehow according to 8 - 4. Soooo I guess you can ask those Dothraki if it was racist. Let them decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figdoni Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 34 minutes ago, btfu806 said: Well, half the dothraki are still alive somehow according to 8 - 4. Soooo I guess you can ask those Dothraki if it was racist. Let them decide. It’s half the unsullied that are alive. The Dothraki werent mentioned. We saw them all die anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btfu806 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 37 minutes ago, Figdoni said: It’s half the unsullied that are alive. The Dothraki werent mentioned. We saw them all die anyway wth I swear I am hearing things. That's what I thought was so outrageous about the scene was it mentioned half the dorthraki are gone yet what we saw was them all dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Welcome to the Dothraki Reservation Casino… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
State Trooper Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 LOL! So now D&D are being accused of racism? Whatever next? You gonna blame them for the Third World debt? Donald Trump? The War in Iraq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaith Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 3 hours ago, State Trooper said: LOL! So now D&D are being accused of racism? Whatever next? You gonna blame them for the Third World debt? Donald Trump? The War in Iraq? It's rather obtuse to imply that the OP is saying that Benioff & Weiss are responsible for all racism, ever. They're just asking whether the writing itself had racist undertones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
State Trooper Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, Vaith said: It's rather obtuse to imply that the OP is saying that Benioff & Weiss are responsible for all racism, ever. They're just asking whether the writing itself had racist undertones. I was being sarcastic, because every other thread seems to knock / slag off D&D, this being the latest one. It just gets tiresome and boring after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azor_ahaiii Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 7 hours ago, Figdoni said: It’s half the unsullied that are alive. The Dothraki werent mentioned. We saw them all die anyway 7 hours ago, btfu806 said: wth I swear I am hearing things. That's what I thought was so outrageous about the scene was it mentioned half the dorthraki are gone yet what we saw was them all dying. Some are apparently cause Varys mentioned them when talking to Daenerys about invading King's Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 On 5/4/2019 at 11:03 AM, bloodsteel bitterraven said: In the after the episode special for episode 3, Weiss (one of the two producers of the show) claimed that the demise of the Dothraki army was also the end of their civilization. Many here have said, that this was an easy solution for Weiss and Benioff, on how to solve the problem of assimilating a foreign culture to Westeros, and while that may true, I have seen a lot of comments about how this is really no different than what western culture has been doing for centuries when encountering indigenous or any other type of different culture. Am I the only who found what Dumb and Dumber (Benioff and Weiss) did extremely problematic, even racist? I do not think they are racist, they are just lazy elitists. They wanted the show's musical theme to be "The Reynes of Castamere". Lannister fanboys. Arrogant but not racists. They are also not very talented writers, they just have massive budgets behind them and a Great Book series to base this show on which once anchored them into place after the first four seasons, then it has gone down hill since then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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