Jorah Mormont

[Nihiloth90]

I know this might sound immature, but I stopped watching Game of Thrones for a number of years after Ned Stark's death. I love Sean Bean, and I hated how Ned died. When I returned, I think it was in season 4, I grew attached to Iain Glen's character, Jorah Mormont. I don't know why. Maybe it was his voice or his rugged face. His dedication to Daenerys was pretty incredible. In season 5, he had his best scenes overall; he bonded with Tyrion, the two traveled through Old Valyria, he saved Tyrion; he fought in gladiatorial games, and saved Daenerys' life. The entire fight in the Mereen Pits reminded me of the movie Gladiator. Jorah comes back to Westeros and is healed of his Grayscale by Sam... so that he will die staving off wight attacks against Daenerys? 

Why is this guy not more popular?

In most cases, my favorite characters die, or are either under-utilized or turned into pure figures of torment. 

In Dragon Ball, my favorite character is always humiliated,
In Lord of the Rings my favorite characters died,
In Game of Thrones my favorite characters died (both of them),

...in almost everything I've followed, my favorite characters either die or are second, or third to everyone else.

Who is your favorite character... and are you tormented that they are not appreciated as much as you appreciate them?
 

[Lord Stannis-The True King]

Yes.

[Nihiloth90]

2 hours ago, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

Yes.

Stannis! I loved you... until.....

 

 

[MinscS2]

 

4 hours ago, Nihiloth90 said:

Jorah comes back to Westeros and is healed of his Grayscale by Sam... so that he will die staving off wight attacks against Daenerys? 

Jorah's always been one of my favorites, but I'm barely saddened by his death because it was such fitting, perfect conclusion to his storyarc, and ultimately he died as he lived. 

Dying to save Daenerys at the very end-game (it's 3 out of 73 episodes left, he lasted way longer than most secondary- or even primary characters did) is a very fitting and in-character way for him to go. Hopefully he didn't die in vain, which he would've if Daenerys dies within the next couple of episodes.

As for the greyscale, as lame as this sounds, this was 100% a "plotdevice", because the actor needed to leave GoT for a time to film a different project, so they came up with the idea of giving him greyscale so there would be a viable excuse for him to be absent for a longer period of time.

4 hours ago, Nihiloth90 said:

Why is this guy not more popular?

What makes you say this?
Jorah is very likable, and is very popular among the fans. 

 

[Red Dragon10]

I've always really liked Jorah.  I appreciate his loyalty and love for Daenerys.  I'm definitely sad to see him go.  But, like MinscS2, I'm appreciative of what a 'good death' they gave him.  I really couldn't have given him a more appropriate way to go.  So for that reason, I'm not sorry.  I'm sure we'll be losing more characters soon and I doubt many of them will die as well as Jorah did. 

And I do think Jorah is pretty popular.  For not being a main character, a lot of people talk about him! 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

2 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

 

Jorah's always been one of my favorites, but I'm barely saddened by his death because it was such fitting, perfect conclusion to his storyarc, and ultimately he died as he lived. 

Dying to save Daenerys at the very end-game (it's 3 out of 73 episodes left, he lasted way longer than most secondary- or even primary characters did) is a very fitting and in-character way for him to go. Hopefully he didn't die in vain, which he would've if Daenerys dies within the next couple of episodes.

As for the greyscale, as lame as this sounds, this was 100% a "plotdevice", because the actor needed to leave GoT for a time to film a different project, so they came up with the idea of giving him greyscale so there would be a viable excuse for him to be absent for a longer period of time.

What makes you say this?
Jorah is very likable, and is very popular among the fans. 

 

I was glad that Jorah lived to see the wights drop, he knew as he was dying that at least this problem was over.  How many people can have a dragon come to mourn them.  Not many.  I think Jorah lasted this long in the series because of Iain's face and voice.  I'm not sure how it'll go in the books.  A better battle, LOL, surely, but a better death?  I'm not sure. 

[lakin1013]

Wasn't Ser Jorah's crime that of selling poachers to slavers, in order to satisfy his demanding wife?  His character arc also came full circle in that he embraced Dany's vision to eradicate slavery.  His death was true and brave.

[Lord Stannis-The True King]

6 hours ago, Nihiloth90 said:

Stannis! I loved you... until.....

 

 

That's exactly what I mean. Stannis is so misunderstood by many fans. People simply refuse to see the significance of Shireen's sacrifice in the grand scheme of the show. It's heartbreaking really to see a character sacrifice LITERALLY EVERYTHING to protect his people only to be precieved as the villian. Stannis is easily the most selfless character in the whole show and singlehandedly responsible for giving Westeros the opportunity to prepare for The Others. Without him, everybody would have died. Full stop. 

[Zorral]

Persons can be selfless and still do the wrong / criminal / sinful act.  And he did.  And he did it for NOTHING.

But -- you know this entertainment, consciously created (supposedly ... who knows with D&D) -- NOT LIFE.  So no suffering here, not at all.

And Ian Glen is in many other series that one also likes.  My favorite with him as primary was the Jack Taylor series.

 

 

[Lord Stannis-The True King]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Persons can be selfless and still do the wrong / criminal / sinful act.  And he did.  And he did it for NOTHING.

Nothing.

Really.

This exactly proves my  point. People aren't very observant. It's cause and effect. Did you ever wonder why is season 5 Stannis' army froze and starved unable to move camp only for Jon Snow to pass unimpeded in season 6? Did you ever wonder why Jon fought at Winterfell in the MUD while Stannis fought in the ICE? Shireen's sacrifice held off winter. Without her sacrifice winter would only have gotten worse. Travel would remain impossible. People would be stuck wherever they were. Supply routes would be cut off and troop movements impossible. The Bolton's would remain in control of a divided North. There would be no preparation for the army of the dead and when they came they would wipe out everything. By the time anyone in the South understood what was happening they would be under siege. Everybody would have died. Shireen's innocence protected the realm until the Night King showed up at Winterfell.

Even Stannis' defeat at Winterfell holds tactical value. He nearly won!! With no siege weapons, no cavilry and fewer men!! Stannis was the first one to draw his sword and remained at the head of his army (as he always did). Look at the aftermath of that battle and you will see no Bolton soldiers left standing. Stannis was in the center of combat and survived!! His forces nearly wiped out the Bolton forces. That required the Bolton's to rely on the Manderlys and the Karstarks in the Battle of the Bastards. Had Stannis not depleted their initial numbers Jon would have faced insurmountable odds.

It's funny, I always saw Stannis as the foil for Ned Stark in this way. One of my favorite scenes that describes this perfectly is in the season 1 episode Bealor. The conversation between Aemon Targarian and Jon Snow. Maester Aemon asks Jon if he knows why the Night's Watch can have no wives and father no children. "So they will not love. LOVE IS THE DEATH OF DUTY." He says that given the choice most men would prioritize their family over their duty to the realm. He then asks what Jon thinks his father would do. Jon replies that his father would always do what is right. No matter what. Aemon says that his father is "one man in ten thousand". "Most of us are not so strong. What is honor campared to a woman's love? What is duty compared to the feel of a newborn son in your arms? Or a brother's smile?" "We're all human. And we all do our duty when there's no cost to it. Honor comes easy then. Yet, sooner or later, in every man's life there comes a day when it is not easy. A day when he must choose!"

As we all know Ned Stark was considered an honorable man. He supported Stannis as the heir to the Iron Throne because he WAS the heir. But when he had to choose between his duty and his family he chose his family. He falsely confessed to treason and proclaimed Joffry the true King plunging the seven kingdoms into a civil war that still hasn't ended. All to save his two daughters. All the lives lost in this conflict to save two people. In the end his love was the death of his duty. 

Stannis had a similar choice to make. To spare his daughter at the expense of the kingdom or to sacrifice her to ensure it's future and save countless lives in the process. He chose Duty. Stannis Baratheon was that one man in ten thousand Measter Aemon referenced. He loved Shireen. She was possibly the only person he ever loved and he still chose his duty. Why? Because he was King. And a King has a greater responsibility to his people than to his family. A King must be selfless to be effective. And Stannis is the only truly selfless character in the whole series. 

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

Nothing.

Really.

This exactly proves my  point. People aren't very observant. It's cause and effect. Did you ever wonder why is season 5 Stannis' army froze and starved unable to move camp only for Jon Snow to pass unimpeded in season 6? Did you ever wonder why Jon fought at Winterfell in the MUD while Stannis fought in the ICE? Shireen's sacrifice held off winter. Without her sacrifice winter would only have gotten worse. Travel would remain impossible. People would be stuck wherever they were. Supply routes would be cut off and troop movements impossible. The Bolton's would remain in control of a divided North. There would be no preparation for the army of the dead and when they came they would wipe out everything. By the time anyone in the South understood what was happening they would be under siege. Everybody would have died. Shireen's innocence protected the realm until the Night King showed up at Winterfell.

Even Stannis' defeat at Winterfell holds tactical value. He nearly won!! With no siege weapons, no cavilry and fewer men!! Stannis was the first one to draw his sword and remained at the head of his army (as he always did). Look at the aftermath of that battle and you will see no Bolton soldiers left standing. Stannis was in the center of combat and survived!! His forces nearly wiped out the Bolton forces. That required the Bolton's to rely on the Manderlys and the Karstarks in the Battle of the Bastards. Had Stannis not depleted their initial numbers Jon would have faced insurmountable odds.

It's funny, I always saw Stannis as the foil for Ned Stark in this way. One of my favorite scenes that describes this perfectly is in the season 1 episode Bealor. The conversation between Aemon Targarian and Jon Snow. Maester Aemon asks Jon if he knows why the Night's Watch can have no wives and father no children. "So they will not love. LOVE IS THE DEATH OF DUTY." He says that given the choice most men would prioritize their family over their duty to the realm. He then asks what Jon thinks his father would do. Jon replies that his father would always do what is right. No matter what. Aemon says that his father is "one man in ten thousand". "Most of us are not so strong. What is honor campared to a woman's love? What is duty compared to the feel of a newborn son in your arms? Or a brother's smile?" "We're all human. And we all do our duty when there's no cost to it. Honor comes easy then. Yet, sooner or later, in every man's life there comes a day when it is not easy. A day when he must choose!"

As we all know Ned Stark was considered an honorable man. He supported Stannis as the heir to the Iron Throne because he WAS the heir. But when he had to choose between his duty and his family he chose his family. He falsely confessed to treason and proclaimed Joffry the true King plunging the seven kingdoms into a civil war that still hasn't ended. All to save his two daughters. All the lives lost in this conflict to save two people. In the end his love was the death of his duty. 

Stannis had a similar choice to make. To spare his daughter at the expense of the kingdom or to sacrifice her to ensure it's future and save countless lives in the process. He chose Duty. Stannis Baratheon was that one man in ten thousand Measter Aemon referenced. He loved Shireen. She was possibly the only person he ever loved and he still chose his duty. Why? Because he was King. And a King has a greater responsibility to his people than to his family. A King must be selfless to be effective. And Stannis is the only truly selfless character in the whole series. 

That's fans trying desperately to make sense of what makes no sense.

[Lord Stannis-The True King]

16 minutes ago, Zorral said:

That's fans trying desperately to make sense of what makes no sense.

What doesn't make sense?

[Red Dragon10]

1 hour ago, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

Nothing.

Really.

This exactly proves my  point. People aren't very observant. It's cause and effect. Did you ever wonder why is season 5 Stannis' army froze and starved unable to move camp only for Jon Snow to pass unimpeded in season 6? Did you ever wonder why Jon fought at Winterfell in the MUD while Stannis fought in the ICE? Shireen's sacrifice held off winter. Without her sacrifice winter would only have gotten worse. Travel would remain impossible. People would be stuck wherever they were. Supply routes would be cut off and troop movements impossible. The Bolton's would remain in control of a divided North. There would be no preparation for the army of the dead and when they came they would wipe out everything. By the time anyone in the South understood what was happening they would be under siege. Everybody would have died. Shireen's innocence protected the realm until the Night King showed up at Winterfell.

Even Stannis' defeat at Winterfell holds tactical value. He nearly won!! With no siege weapons, no cavilry and fewer men!! Stannis was the first one to draw his sword and remained at the head of his army (as he always did). Look at the aftermath of that battle and you will see no Bolton soldiers left standing. Stannis was in the center of combat and survived!! His forces nearly wiped out the Bolton forces. That required the Bolton's to rely on the Manderlys and the Karstarks in the Battle of the Bastards. Had Stannis not depleted their initial numbers Jon would have faced insurmountable odds.

It's funny, I always saw Stannis as the foil for Ned Stark in this way. One of my favorite scenes that describes this perfectly is in the season 1 episode Bealor. The conversation between Aemon Targarian and Jon Snow. Maester Aemon asks Jon if he knows why the Night's Watch can have no wives and father no children. "So they will not love. LOVE IS THE DEATH OF DUTY." He says that given the choice most men would prioritize their family over their duty to the realm. He then asks what Jon thinks his father would do. Jon replies that his father would always do what is right. No matter what. Aemon says that his father is "one man in ten thousand". "Most of us are not so strong. What is honor campared to a woman's love? What is duty compared to the feel of a newborn son in your arms? Or a brother's smile?" "We're all human. And we all do our duty when there's no cost to it. Honor comes easy then. Yet, sooner or later, in every man's life there comes a day when it is not easy. A day when he must choose!"

As we all know Ned Stark was considered an honorable man. He supported Stannis as the heir to the Iron Throne because he WAS the heir. But when he had to choose between his duty and his family he chose his family. He falsely confessed to treason and proclaimed Joffry the true King plunging the seven kingdoms into a civil war that still hasn't ended. All to save his two daughters. All the lives lost in this conflict to save two people. In the end his love was the death of his duty. 

Stannis had a similar choice to make. To spare his daughter at the expense of the kingdom or to sacrifice her to ensure it's future and save countless lives in the process. He chose Duty. Stannis Baratheon was that one man in ten thousand Measter Aemon referenced. He loved Shireen. She was possibly the only person he ever loved and he still chose his duty. Why? Because he was King. And a King has a greater responsibility to his people than to his family. A King must be selfless to be effective. And Stannis is the only truly selfless character in the whole series. 

I don't understand what you're saying.  While burning Shireen might have held winter off, Stannis didn't do it with that intention (to save 'countless lives in the process')...so how was it selfless?  He did it because he thought that was the way he would win.  His actions may have unintentionally saved a lot of people, but he sure didn't do it because he thought it would protect the realm until the NK showed up at Winterfell! 

[Lord Stannis-The True King]

9 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

I don't understand what you're saying.  While burning Shireen might have held winter off, Stannis didn't do it with that intention (to save 'countless lives in the process')...so how was it selfless?  He did it because he thought that was the way he would win.  His actions may have unintentionally saved a lot of people, but he sure didn't do it because he thought it would protect the realm until the NK showed up at Winterfell! 

Given that Stannis was a man of few words and rarely spoke his thoughts it is really up to the viewer to decide his motivations in the moment. I agree with you that he believed he could win the battle and planned to eventually liberate the kingdom from the Lannisters. However, in that moment why can't both motivations be true? Winter in Westeros only gets worse and it lasts for years if not decades. Stannis knew the score. He believed in the White Walker threat. Is this not a logical conclusion? 

[Red Dragon10]

7 minutes ago, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

Given that Stannis was a man of few words and rarely spoke his thoughts it is really up to the viewer to decide his motivations in the moment. I agree with you that he believed he could win the battle and planned to eventually liberate the kingdom from the Lannisters. However, in that moment why can't both motivations be true? Winter in Westeros only gets worse and it lasts for years if not decades. Stannis knew the score. He believed in the White Walker threat. Is this not a logical conclusion? 

In my opinion, this is not what the viewer was shown on screen.  I think Stannis had fallen a long way and lost himself by the time he agreed to burn his daughter (although I have never liked show-Stannis and don't think he was all that honourable to begin with - that's my perspective).  So no, personally I do not think both motivations are true.  Maybe it'll be totally different in the books, but for what we got on the show, they told us why he was doing it.  I think anything else essentially amounts to fan fiction. 

[Lord Stannis-The True King]

3 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

In my opinion, this is not what the viewer was shown on screen.  I think Stannis had fallen a long way and lost himself by the time he agreed to burn his daughter (although I have never liked show-Stannis and don't think he was all that honourable to begin with - that's my perspective).  So no, personally I do not think both motivations are true.  Maybe it'll be totally different in the books, but for what we got on the show, they told us why he was doing it.  I think anything else essentially amounts to fan fiction. 

How very sad. You are welcome to interpret the show anyway you like. That view to me is completely inconsistent with the character's motivation, knowledge and actions. But, if that makes you happy, enjoy it I guess.

[Nihiloth90]

One thing I always thought was that Melisandre mind-controlled Stannis at times. If he never made certain choices willfully, it'd be a different story, in my opinion.

 

Would would win (not to the death);

Lyanna Mormont vs. Renly Baratheon

[LadyBlackwater]

On 5/5/2019 at 11:28 AM, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

That's exactly what I mean. Stannis is so misunderstood by many fans. People simply refuse to see the significance of Shireen's sacrifice in the grand scheme of the show. It's heartbreaking really to see a character sacrifice LITERALLY EVERYTHING to protect his people only to be precieved as the villian. Stannis is easily the most selfless character in the whole show and singlehandedly responsible for giving Westeros the opportunity to prepare for The Others. Without him, everybody would have died. Full stop. 

I think with Stannis, he had tunnel vision. When there was a better or more clever way to handle things, he wanted to do it a certain way so as to not look craven or weak. I think his pride was his major downfall in the end. But I also appreciated that when Brienne confronted him, he owned all of it. He may have made some MAJOR missteps, but he was honest and he tried his best to be just.