[Spoilers] Episode 804 Discussion

[Old Rusty Coin]

What did Arya say to The Hound after he said "It must have felt good to stick your knife into that horned fucker"? 

[Raksha 2014]

2 minutes ago, of man and wolf said:

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anyone notice sansa was crying for theon but didnt shed a tear for rickon?

 

Did they show Rickon's funeral?  Maybe she cried there.

[Pandean]

5 minutes ago, LHakaLH said:

The Game of Thrones Book Snob Glossary

the fact that this exist and is called that makes my day

[joaozinm]

Jaime choose cersei

 

Get over it.

[BlackLightning]

6 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

Wouldn't that be burning them too?  They're within the gates of the Red Keep, right? 

Yeah it would be.

Regrettably, it just has to happen. There is literally no way that innocent people (the idiotic sheep that they are) won't die in the heroes' attempt to end Cersei.

 

2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

In any case, we can safely say House Stark is not going to survive the series. At least not in the male line. Bran cannot father children, Rickon is long dead in the show, 'Aegon' isn't a Stark, Arya will never marry and at best give birth to bastards, and Sansa is a woman.

Even if her children call themselves Stark it won't be the same ... at least if we assume the Starks from Brandon the Builder to Eddard Stark are descended from each other in unbroken male line. Which I find ludicrous, of course.

Hold your horses.

It is a known secret that the Starks of Winterfell do not, in fact, hail from an unbroken male line. Bael the Bard and his winter rose?

[Pandean]

4 minutes ago, of man and wolf said:

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anyone notice sansa was crying for theon but didnt shed a tear for rickon?

We never did see Rickon's funeral though.

We could also argue that Sansa barely knew Rickon. He was just a baby when she left Winterfell. So despite him being her brother she may have more emotional ties with Theon due to all they've been through together.

In any case, Rickon was done wrong with his death and the lack of aftermath from Jon and Sansa.

[Greenmonsterff]

Jon would never give away Ghost. That was total BS. . . Dany got screwed a whole bunch of ways tonight. First, nobody really likes her despite her being key to the WW defeat, Jon tells his family the Aegon secret five minutes after he tells her not to, Rhaegal is murdered, then Missandei. She’s right to be losing her religion. . . Was Varys saying he wanted to kill Dany? . . . Arya and Hound on the road again was poetic.

[Lord Varys]

Just now, Jabar of House Titan said:

Hold your horses.

It is a known secret that the Starks of Winterfell do not, in fact, hail from an unbroken male line. Bael the Bard and his winter rose?

The guy was supposedly flayed by some Bolton shortly after he slew his own father. Chances are pretty good that he was a dead end in the Stark family tree, also helping to explain why future Starks didn't exactly remember him.

His successor - the Stark who avenged him and defeated the Boltons - could have been some second cousin through the unbroken male line.

[Ser Sinister]

5 minutes ago, Trebla said:

The land doesn't just close up shop when a House becomes extinct. The Reach went from Gardner to Tyrell during the Conquest.

 

I won't disagree that Dorne as a whole has been handled badly. As far as their forces, a good portion of them died during one of Euron Greyjoy's miraculous attacks. Seriously, that's getting really tiresome. 

But I digress...it would take some time for the power vacuum in Dorne to fill. I was actually pleased that it got a mention. I suspect their forces may be a chekhov's gun in the next episode. Hammer and the Anvil?

The Iron Islands were never a serious threat in the books. It was always stated that they were a threat at sea, until someone got tired of their nonsense and chased them back home. Euron and Qyburn are some sort of show versions of Napoleon and Alexander the Great. 

They've totally changed warfare in Westeros forever with these ballistas. King's Landing appeared to be ringed by them, and as we saw, they can destroy an entire fleet, so what chance does an attacking army have, especially now that that army has a single remaining dragon? Dany and Jon's ragtag army doesn't even have any form of siege engines, and those walls looked pretty formidable.

I guess we'll find out next week...

[BlackLightning]

24 minutes ago, BradDoty08 said:

I agree. I like how they make it seem like getting married is wrong since they're related but kissing passionately isn't?? Jon's the one that kissed her, he doesn't have any problem doing it knowing they're related.

Aren't the direwolves supposed to be huge, like Nymeria? Why's Ghost so small? Is it because he's the runt of the litter? 

Yes. Kissing passionately, professions of undying love and heartfelt nostalgia for the simpler times are feasible.

But a marriage is not? This is another way the show is diverting from the books because there is no way that the two of them won't get married. It probably won't last very long sure but...hey. It's literally destiny for those two.

 

[Ilissa]

This is such an artificial tension between Jon and Dany. They were supposed to get married in Winterfell and close this question forever.

[Skills]

Great episodes,  but two questions:

 

1). Why split up Danys army?  Was this how they were proposing surrounding KL?

2). That Jamie/Brienne scene.  "She's hateful, so am I."

Is he saying he's hateful because he still loves her and sees himself in her...or dis he recall all the evil stuff he did for her and is now disgusted at his previous support for her? I realize this will get debated all week and some hated that exchange but I actually thought it was great how either was set up as a viable possibility. 

[Ricarprs]

8 minutes ago, Clan O'Raghallaigh said:

So, does Gendry now have a better claim to the iron throne over both Jon and Dany?

Robert Baratheon himself won it by war. The Targaryens won it by war.

All these discussions about who’s got a better claim are adjudicated in the book as in real life by wars or assasinations.

As to wether which one has a better claim, Jon or Dany- same rules apply. Except that Jon is willing to bend the knee, Dany not so much. I really don’t get the “she deserves it, she’s a strong woman” argument. She chooses power over love, Jon chooses love over power. She chooses hiding the truth, he chooses disclosing the truth. She knows the people are more drawn to him, but no matter because, you know, she REALLY wants the throne. So Jon, if you really love me, give up the throne, bend the knee and lie for me.

And so I move on to the “mad queen argument”. I have been rewatching the series from the beginning and you can see her tendency to destroy those who cross her from season 2. She burns the magi, she locks one of her maidens with Hotharis in a vault, but we root for her because she is the underdog, and those people had it coming. But then she starts burning her enemies, always “bad guys” until the Tarlys. These were honorable men. But they would not bend the knee. She REALLY hates it when people don’t bend the knee from way back.

As the crowning moment of irony in this episode, she is quite willing to liberate King’s Landing folk by carbonizing them. Those of you who know history will remember the Vietnam era’s famous joke- we had to burn the village to save it. 

She is not “going mad”, she has since season 2 been willing to torch those who will not bend the knee

[Ilissa]

Anyway, I'm glad that we were given SanSan moment. I hope it was not the last.

[LadyBlackwater]

9 minutes ago, Old Rusty Coin said:

What did Arya say to The Hound after he said "It must have felt good to stick your knife into that horned fucker"? 

Something like “it felt better than dying”

[BlackLightning]

28 minutes ago, BradDoty08 said:

I agree. I like how they make it seem like getting married is wrong since they're related but kissing passionately isn't?? Jon's the one that kissed her, he doesn't have any problem doing it knowing they're related.

Aren't the direwolves supposed to be huge, like Nymeria? Why's Ghost so small? Is it because he's the runt of the litter? 

Yes. Kissing passionately, professions of undying love and heartfelt nostalgia for the simpler times are feasible.

But a marriage is not? This is another way the show is diverting from the books because there is no way that the two of them won't get married. It probably won't last very long sure but...hey. It's literally destiny for those two.

 

[LadyBlackwater]

8 minutes ago, Greenmonsterff said:

Jon would never give away Ghost. That was total BS. . . Dany got screwed a whole bunch of ways tonight. First, nobody really likes her despite her being key to the WW defeat, Jon tells his family the Aegon secret five minutes after he tells her not to, Rhaegal is murdered, then Missandei. She’s right to be losing her religion. . . Was Varys saying he wanted to kill Dany? . . . Arya and Hound on the road again was poetic.

I was so upset. 

[BlackLightning]

8 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Sure, Varys has his own way to serve the Realm. But keep in mind that Robert would have never listened to Varys even if he had given him sage advice all day long, and those Baratheons were all bad apples, none properly qualified to rule. Cersei produced her bastards, Stannis nobody liked, and Renly simply lacked the claim. Not to mention that the Targaryen name would always trump those Baratheon usurpers.

If you want to make a great king you go with the Targaryen name if you are smart.

But if the king you made sucks and threatens to undo all you tried to accomplish a guy like Varys is going to wring his hands and watch the world burn (or rather: die in a winter that never ends).

Varys basically told us what he was about in the Epilogue of ADwD. Only Kevan was listening to him. He told him what he was about. And he might never do that again considering that chances are not that high that another dying POV is going to talk to him about his motives.

You and I both know that there is more to Varys than what meets the eye. Yes, we already know what Varys said and what Varys wants...but Varys has some very specific motives that drive him to say what he says and want what he wants. And very unlikely that it's about the people.

On top of that, Varys has yet to tell Tyrion the full story of how he came to be maimed. Nor has Varys told Tyrion what happened after.

Varys is an actor and liar. Someone very good at making things appear like they aren't.

Besides, GRRM has said that we would find out Varys' motives in A Dream of Spring. Now why would he say that if Varys has already told us his motives?

 

[Ilissa]

1 minute ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Yes. Kissing passionately, professions of undying love and heartfelt nostalgia for the simpler times are feasible.

But a marriage is not? This is another way the show is diverting from the books because there is no way that the two of them won't get married. It probably won't last very long sure but...hey. It's literally destiny for those two. 

 

Yes. It is so unnatural that they were not married yet. This is the way all dynastic problems were solved in the Middle Ages.

[Figdoni]

1 hour ago, LHakaLH said:

None of this plot makes sense or fits the characters.

The entire point of WW was to be an apocalyptic threat that would show the folly of human bickering and war and now they're not only immediately dealt with, but completely forgotten. 

This entire season has been one big simultaneous "Fuck you" to George RR Martin and A Song of Ice and Fire

Disagree about the plot and characters... I’ve been expecting both to go exactly the way they’re going precisely because of the point that I think GRRM is trying to make.

yeah... a fight against death itself should put things into perspective... but it doesn’t... for some.... and that is why those that are so power hungry that they’ve lost perspective of that, and what should matter... so they have to be overcome too

Death is swift. But the brutal tyrants of the world bring suffering as well as death. They are as much a problem for the living.