[Spoilers] Episode 804 Discussion

[Old Rusty Coin]

1 minute ago, Ilissa said:

I hope so! Such a nice couple.

Hahahaha! 

 

[Ilissa]

2 minutes ago, Skills said:

Great take.

I think ultimately Jon will find this an unacceptable situation.   I predict Dany surprises everyone and finds a way to take the throne without killing a bunch of civilians...largely because I hope that they don't cheapen her story by making her out as another mad Targ.

Jon refuses to live a lie as his entire life to this point as been a lie.  He will not perpetuate it.  He self exiled himself to the North to be with the Free Folk.  There's your bittersweet ending.  

If Jon does not become king, what is the point of R + L?

[Ilissa]

Just now, Old Rusty Coin said:

Hahahaha! 

 

Hmmm... I really don't understand your reaction.

[Figdoni]

1 hour ago, Clan O'Raghallaigh said:

So, does Gendry now have a better claim to the iron throne over both Jon and Dany?

He certainly has a better claim than Cersei!

[BlackLightning]

3 minutes ago, Ilissa said:

And I also want to say. What about books? Martin told the screenwriters the finale of his story. What about marriage in a book? I thought Martin for realism. Such tension will look doubly stupid in the book.

There will be tension. But it will be multilayered and better written. Jon will have a serious identity crisis; Dany will have not so serious identity crisis that will make her pause and take a hard look at herself (and also Aegon). Dany will still want Jon but Jon might not want her back the same way again.

4 minutes ago, Figdoni said:

Why should he keep his mouth shut? He’s spent his life being lied to, the truth matters to someone like Jon, as does being honest with those he loves.... and if she can’t manage to get the people of Westeros to follow her, when Jon has bent the knee and doesn’t want the throne.... then really... she shouldn’t rule coz she hasn’t got what it takes!

it may be logical to you, but Dany was very clear that the only way Jon gets to be with her is if he keeps quiet about his parentage... this pretty much proves she doesn’t know him and therefore doesn’t love him... at least not nearly as much as she loves power

He should have keep his mouth shut for the sake of peace.

Things have been spiraling out of control ever since he told his sisters. And now Daenerys is now in terrible danger of being murdered in her own home.

Her concerns were valid. He simply could not respect them.

She can get the people of Westeros to follow her. We saw that in this episode. The people in Westeros are 2x as pig-headed and ungrateful as the people in Essos. In time, they will have come around.

I don't think Daenerys loves power. No more than Arya or Sansa do. She's a powerful person who wants to change the world for the better and being powerful in positions of power is simply how you get it.

 

[Bran the Shipper]

Well that episode made me dislike pretty much everyone but Daenerys, so yeah?  Okay that is not entirely fair, I still like Sandor and Brienne was okay (I didn't like any of the scenes she was in).  Podrick I don't think had any lines so I think he is still safe.

If all it takes for Dany to go mad is for everyone she loves and trusts to die or betray her, then that does not justify them all being concerned that she will go mad. 

Honestly I'm kind of just done with this show at this point.  Just two more episodes, hopefully I'll be in a better mood by next week (or tomorrow that would work too).

One last note, anyone else getting confused about Arya and Sandor's relationship.  It just seems like she is constantly seeking him out.  She pretty much confirmed that she didn't really care for Gendry she just wanted to have sex before the big fight.  But she had sought out Sandor first and only left when Beric showed up (three's a crowd).  My take from Sandor is that he wants to get away from this stalker of his, but doesn't know the best way to go about it.

[Cron]

10 minutes ago, Ilissa said:

I hope so! Such a nice couple.

Yeah, it's the perfect capstone to Ned and Robert's strong friendship.

Way back in season 1, they (Ned and Robert) talked about joining their houses together (via Sansa and Joffrey), and that was a train wreck, but Arya and Gendry ending up together brings great closure in a lot of ways.

[Ilissa]

4 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Dany will still want Jon but Jon might not want her back the same way again. 

Why?

[Cron]

12 minutes ago, hallam said:

If Sansa and Tyrion end up on the Iron Throne, Arya will have to be the Stark in Winterfell. 

I suppose that's possible, but I don't think that will happen.

I believe that Sansa will end up being the Warden of the North in Winterfell (IF Sansa lives, that is, and I think that's a coin flip, at best), and Arya and Gendry will end up at Storm's End.

That's just my gut feeling, though.

[Old Rusty Coin]

Just now, Ilissa said:

Hmmm... I really don't understand your reaction.

Gendry is a nice guy, but clueless. Arya is a contract assassin gone rogue.  Such a nice couple.... Reminds me of La Femme Nikita.  It's pretty ambiguous as to whether or not the contract actually expired when she left Braavos. She has a lot of deaths to pay for the lives she's taken for her own purposes.  All men must serve.

[BlackLightning]

1 minute ago, Ilissa said:

Why?

I'm not sure.

Jon might not like the idea of an avuncular marriage (a marriage between an uncle/aunt and their niece/nephew). It is not really a problem in the south provided the ages align in a somewhat decent fashion but it is uncommon in the North. Jon has had secondhand experience with these type of marriages and he doesn't like them because they tend to be exploitative and breeding grounds for abuse. ((The book version of Alys Karstark))

Jon, once he gets resurrected, is going to experience a rather drastic change in personality. Dondarrion and Stoneheart did. He'll be colder and quieter, if not meaner. This truth bomb of not being who he thought he is might push him over the edge.

[Figdoni]

6 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

He should have keep his mouth shut for the sake of peace.

Things have been spiraling out of control ever since he told his sisters. And now Daenerys is now in terrible danger of being murdered in her own home.

Her concerns were valid. He simply could not respect them.

She can get the people of Westeros to follow her. We saw that in this episode. The people in Westeros are 2x as pig-headed and ungrateful as the people in Essos. In time, they will have come around.

I don't think Daenerys loves power. No more than Arya or Sansa do. She's a powerful person who wants to change the world for the better and being powerful in positions of power is simply how you get it.

 

Peace? You mean for the sake of Danaerys’ ambitions...

there is no guarantee that Danaerys can bring peace, no more than Jon or any other leader who claims to want peace. 

If “peace” = “do as I say, regardless of whether it goes against your sense of truth, honour and what is right”, then it’s not really peace, it’s the kind of autocratic rule that any tinpot tyrant aims for.

He shouldn’t respect her concerns, imho, because she is putting her ambitions ahead of what is right, and ahead of what is true.

to paraphrase Sansa in the last episode.. the most heroic thing we can do is look truth in the face... I think she’s right. Dany is being a coward. 

[CrypticWeirwood]

37 minutes ago, #teamNightking said:

It's very survival of the fittest. The throne belongs to whomever can claim it, take it and hold it. 

Please never let Stannis hear you talking like that. He'd probably take your tongue for misusing whomever.

[hallam]

2 minutes ago, Old Rusty Coin said:

Gendry is a nice guy, but clueless. Arya is a contract assassin gone rogue.  Such a nice couple.... Reminds me of La Femme Nikita.  It's pretty ambiguous as to whether or not the contract actually expired when she left Braavos. She has a lot of deaths to pay for the lives she's taken for her own purposes.  All men must serve.

Oh you think the faceless men might return and off Arya?

Could happen I guess. If it does, episode 5. 

[Ilissa]

3 minutes ago, Old Rusty Coin said:

Arya is a contract assassin gone rogue.

Arya is not an assassin anymore. She left the house black and white.

[CrypticWeirwood]

7 minutes ago, Cron said:

I suppose that's possible, but I don't think that will happen.

I believe that Sansa will end up being the Warden of the North in Winterfell (IF Sansa lives, that is, and I think that's a coin flip, at best), and Arya and Gendry will end up at Storm's End.

That's just my gut feeling, though.

I don't think women can be wardens, unless it's Brienne. Warden is like warlord; it's the war-leader. 

[Old Rusty Coin]

1 minute ago, hallam said:

Oh you think the faceless men might return and off Arya?

Could happen I guess. If it does, episode 5. 

No, just hand her an iron coin wrapped in a slip of parchment with the name of someone she does not know.

[Ilissa]

4 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Jon has had secondhand experience with these type of marriages and he doesn't like them because they tend to be exploitative and breeding grounds for abuse.

There is not 21st century. I think Jon doesn't care about such things. 

[Figdoni]

57 minutes ago, Skills said:

Great episodes,  but two questions:

 

1). Why split up Danys army?  Was this how they were proposing surrounding KL?

2). That Jamie/Brienne scene.  "She's hateful, so am I."

Is he saying he's hateful because he still loves her and sees himself in her...or dis he recall all the evil stuff he did for her and is now disgusted at his previous support for her? I realize this will get debated all week and some hated that exchange but I actually thought it was great how either was set up as a viable possibility. 

1. Good question. I can’t see a reason other than her impatience... Jon/ the northern armies must be at least a week away?

2. I think he’s resigned to the fact that he and Cersei are the same. Whatever fate she has ahead of her, he intends to be by her side... if that means they’re both doomed, so be it, And it may even be a relief for Jaime. He both loves and loathes her, emotions tied together like the twinship between them. But I personally haven’t given up hope of him being the valonqar yet

[Old Rusty Coin]

4 minutes ago, Ilissa said:

Arya is not an assassin anymore. She left the house black and white.

Ah, but did the House of Black and White leave her?