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So i'm guessing now that Cersei and Aegon are literally red herrings for Dany and Jon.  No wonder, GRRM can't finish the books.... 

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11 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

What about them?

Wouldn't that be burning them too?  They're within the gates of the Red Keep, right? 

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41 minutes ago, Bran Snow said:

This was what is was thinking when watching that scene. 

It made my eye twitch

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Posted (edited)

i don't even think they HAVE to do CGI wolves, watching a documentary about the production of LOTR, they did a lot of force perspective and camera "tricks" with angles to give the impression that the hobbit actors were smaller, or the humans bigger.

some clever perspective shots with a big  wolfdog would do the trick really, i call that laziness and incompetence.

Edited by BlueNightzx

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7 minutes ago, BlueNightzx said:

only martells can be princes of dorne, so........

The land doesn't just close up shop when a House becomes extinct. The Reach went from Gardner to Tyrell during the Conquest.

 

4 minutes ago, The One Who Kneels said:

I don't think anyone's upset. It's just hilarious that after having Ellaria (no relation whatsoever to the ruling family) and her bastard children apparently take control of Dorne and then having Dorne just disappear from the war after they were captured or killed the Dornish now have a prince and are mentioned again. Why didn't they have a prince (or princess) to start with even if he or she was just Ellaria's puppet? 

Like many regions of Westeros (Stormlands, Riverlands, Reach for some other recent examples) Dorne and its forces just appears or disappears from the story depending on the whims of the writers. 

I won't disagree that Dorne as a whole has been handled badly. As far as their forces, a good portion of them died during one of Euron Greyjoy's miraculous attacks. Seriously, that's getting really tiresome. 

But I digress...it would take some time for the power vacuum in Dorne to fill. I was actually pleased that it got a mention. I suspect their forces may be a chekhov's gun in the next episode. Hammer and the Anvil?

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1 minute ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

I am probably wrong but I got the sense that Bran set this whole conflict between Dany and Jon in motion for some reason that he can only see via the weirwood network.   

But Bran can't see into the future.

2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

But Aegon will fail. And Varys does, in the end, serve the Realm. That was never in doubt. If Aegon were to sabotage their efforts in the fight against the Others or turn out to be a shitty king in other ways Varys would personally slit his throat. It would likely break his heart but he would do it.

Not so fast.

We have yet to learn Varys' true motives. For all this "for the realm" stuff Varys preaches, he sure made a concentrated effort to bet on the wrong horse when he CHOSE to abandon Eddard Stark to an execution he didn't deserve for the Lannisters. Oh, and that, of course, was after Robert Baratheon had spent years bankrupting the realm so he could whore and drink his way into an early grave.

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9 minutes ago, Clan O'Raghallaigh said:

So, does Gendry now have a better claim to the iron throne over both Jon and Dany?

No because if Gendry has a better claim, than Dany isn't the legitimate queen, therefore her legitimizing Gendry wouldn't work.

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In any case, we can safely say House Stark is not going to survive the series. At least not in the male line. Bran cannot father children, Rickon is long dead in the show, 'Aegon' isn't a Stark, Arya will never marry and at best give birth to bastards, and Sansa is a woman.

Even if her children call themselves Stark it won't be the same ... at least if we assume the Starks from Brandon the Builder to Eddard Stark are descended from each other in unbroken male line. Which I find ludicrous, of course.

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3 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Not exactly right.

Women of the Great Houses do usually keep and invoke their maiden name (as well as their sigils and banners). But they still take their husband's last name and they are primarily known by their husband's last name. Like Catelyn Stark is still widely known as Catelyn Tully but her claim to fame is the fact that she is the wife of Lord Stark, the queen of his castle and the mother of the next generation of Starks. She went back and forth from Tully and Stark in the show but her principal priorities and duties belonged to House Stark.

However, when women of any house marry the King, they keep their last names. You can't marry into royalty and claim the name; you can only claim the name if you were born into it. That exclusivity is part of the kingly and princely mystique. That's why Cersei Lannister is still Cersei Lannister even though she was married to King Robert Baratheon.

That's why Targaryen women always kept their last name and their title as princess, no matter who they married.

So Prince Rhaegar's wife was Princess Elia not by marriage but because she was already royalty before the marriage?

I feel like even when she was only a queen consort or queen mother, not a queen regnant, Cersei still got called queen by courtesy. But she was never royal is all, and never changed her name.

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Just now, Lord Varys said:

In any case, we can safely say House Stark is not going to survive the series. At least not in the male line. Bran cannot father children, Rickon is long dead in the show, 'Aegon' isn't a Stark, Arya will never marry and at best give birth to bastards, and Sansa is a woman.

Even if her children call themselves Stark it won't be the same ... at least if we assume the Starks from Brandon the Builder to Eddard Stark are descended from each other in unbroken male line. Which I find ludicrous, of course.

Apparently you don't believe the tale of Bael the Bard then. It was his bastard son with the daughter of the Lord of Winterfell who became the new Stark.

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Posted (edited)
Spoiler

 

anyone notice sansa was crying for theon but didnt shed a tear for rickon?

Edited by of man and wolf

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1 hour ago, Red Dragon10 said:

I'm really confused about what his thinking is:  he's terrible and Cersei is terrible, so they should go be together?  WHY is he going back to KL?  To kill Cersei?  To warn her?  Because it's what he deserves?  He obviously loves and respects Brienne and knows what Cersei is...I'm just not understanding his motivation.  He knew that they were going to KL to get the IT from Cersei..I would assume that she would die in the process.  So now he knows Dany is down a dragon..what has changed for him, that he needs to go to KL too? 

I think he knows how bad his sister is, and he is determined to stop her. 

 

Jaime and Arya are on the same mission! 

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2 minutes ago, Nic. said:

So i'm guessing now that Cersei and Aegon are literally red herrings for Dany and Jon.  No wonder, GRRM can't finish the books.... 

I think The Winds of Winter is more or less finished. I think GRRM is sitting on it until the show finishes.

But no. Cersei and Aegon are not red herrings for Dany and Jon. They are their own characters. Cersei is a villain with a completely different trajectory and Aegon is nothing like either Dany or Jon.

3 minutes ago, BlueNightzx said:

i don't even think they HAVE to do CGI wolves, watching a documentary about the production of LOTR, they did a lot of force perspective and camera "tricks" with angles to give the impression that the hobbit actors were smaller, or the humans bigger.

some clever perspective shots with a big with wolf/dog would do the trick really, i call that laziness and incompetence.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd we have a winner...

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Trebla said:

The land doesn't just close up shop when a House becomes extinct. The Reach went from Gardner to Tyrell during the Conquest.

 

I fully agree, they only needed to say "dorne have a new ruler" and that would be the end of it, but when they say "Prince" they're implying that there is a possibilty of martells remaining there, or some other house claiming the title of prince, and woul the dornish people accept it? without any kind of unrest?

do you see, its a statement that only breeds more questions, and without any groundwork laid before on the show, i suspect that will be the end for "dorne"

"they got a new prince
-The end"

Edited by BlueNightzx

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2 minutes ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

No because if Gendry has a better claim, than Dany isn't the legitimate queen, therefore her legitimizing Gendry wouldn't work.

More so because the Baratheons are a cadet branch of the Targaryens. Robert was Rhaegar's second cousin.

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3 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

But Bran can't see into the future.

Not so fast.

We have yet to learn Varys' true motives. For all this "for the realm" stuff Varys preaches, he sure made a concentrated effort to bet on the wrong horse when he CHOSE to abandon Eddard Stark to an execution he didn't deserve for the Lannisters. Oh, and that, of course, was after Robert Baratheon had spent years bankrupting the realm so he could whore and drink his way into an early grave.

 

I've always thought that Varys serves Varys first and foremost and second (in the books) the Blackfyres if he serves any dynasty.

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30 minutes ago, Sibly said:

I think Jaime is going back to kill Cersei and he said the 'I am a bad boy' stuff to Brienne so she would be hurt and hate him. He wants her to feel betrayed and hate him, because he thinks he will probably die.

 

26 minutes ago, Danelle said:

Or he may also think that he is not worthy of her. 

Remember in an interview Nikolaj Coster-Waldau said "I had a great last scene. It was absolutely beautiful. It was the perfect way to end".  So maybe he's going to live happy ever after with Brienne.
Or, I have been paying attention and he dies in a blaze of glory after killing Cersei 

 

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1 minute ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

But Bran can't see into the future.

Not so fast.

We have yet to learn Varys' true motives. For all this "for the realm" stuff Varys preaches, he sure made a concentrated effort to bet on the wrong horse when he CHOSE to abandon Eddard Stark to an execution he didn't deserve for the Lannisters. Oh, and that, of course, was after Robert Baratheon had spent years bankrupting the realm so he could whore and drink his way into an early grave.

Sure, Varys has his own way to serve the Realm. But keep in mind that Robert would have never listened to Varys even if he had given him sage advice all day long, and those Baratheons were all bad apples, none properly qualified to rule. Cersei produced her bastards, Stannis nobody liked, and Renly simply lacked the claim. Not to mention that the Targaryen name would always trump those Baratheon usurpers.

If you want to make a great king you go with the Targaryen name if you are smart.

But if the king you made sucks and threatens to undo all you tried to accomplish a guy like Varys is going to wring his hands and watch the world burn (or rather: die in a winter that never ends).

Varys basically told us what he was about in the Epilogue of ADwD. Only Kevan was listening to him. He told him what he was about. And he might never do that again considering that chances are not that high that another dying POV is going to talk to him about his motives.

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