[Poll] How would you rate episode 804?

[dannyk65]

2 hours ago, #FreeGhost said:

This is awesome...

 

Magnificent!

....golf clap...

[Stubby]

[MOD]

Do not discuss leaks.

[/MOD]

[dannyk65]

4 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

Chad is clearly going mad! (Mad Chad?)

The 2 I have watched loyally for many, many episodes are Preston ^^^^^ and this guy (who is absolutely hilarious):

 

[dannyk65]

7 hours ago, SunSpearViper said:

To quote a great man: "It's a big shit sandwich..and we're all going to have to take a bite."

It does NOT want to let me add a gif or pic at all.  Fail.

Edited May 9, 2019 by dannyk65

[dannyk65]

7 hours ago, SunSpearViper said:

To quote a great man: "It's a big shit sandwich..and we're all going to have to take a bite."

https://imgur.com/a/3ilELVD

Edited May 9, 2019 by dannyk65

[Kajjo]

E4 is the worst rated episode so far. Why is it? I liked E4. It was worse then E2 but not worse then E3.

E4 had several interesting developments, it lacked a bit in dialogue and emotions, though.

[Cas Stark]

12 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

E4 is the worst rated episode so far. Why is it? I liked E4. It was worse then E2 but not worse then E3.

E4 had several interesting developments, it lacked a bit in dialogue and emotions, though.

I think it's two reasons.  It's a delayed response to E. 3, which gets worse in hindsight, and because E.4 had a) 2 new really bad military encounters that arent believable, b) negative and abrupt character development for Jamie, c) negative and abrupt character development for Dany, d) Starbucks cup is emblematic of show's loss of care on the basics.

[Kajjo]

19 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

a) 2 new really bad military encounters that arent believable

Yes, shooting down the dragon was lame and unbelievable.

19 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

negative and abrupt character development for Jamie

Hm, we will see what he really wants to do. Having sex with Brienne was absolutely fore-shadowed and not unexpected. That is in-character.

20 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

negative and abrupt character development for Dany

I don't see that point at all. Daenerys had flashes of rage and ruthlessness since season 1. Everyone should have understood that she is on the verge to become a mad queen. Tyrion and Varys needed again and again to talk her out of gross brutality.

21 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Starbucks cup is emblematic of show's loss of care

Yeah. Well, to be honest, I haven't noticed it. But yes, that's iconic.

[House Cambodia]

59 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

a) 2 new really bad military encounters that arent believable

Yes, shooting down the dragon was lame and unbelievable.

These 2 go together; i.e. if we are to accept that they posse is really crap at planning strategy and tactics and just go blundering blind into conflicts, then it was entirely believable she'd fly right into Euron's trap completely unaware and unprepared. In that sense she got what she bloody deserved.

[Cas Stark]

11 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

These 2 go together; i.e. if we are to accept that they posse is really crap at planning strategy and tactics and just go blundering blind into conflicts, then it was entirely believable she'd fly right into Euron's trap completely unaware and unprepared. In that sense she got what she bloody deserved.

Why would we accept such an asinine premise as the woman who planned the siege of Meereen 'forgot' about a navy that  has destroyed her twice already?  Or that GW or Missy or anyone else would forget something like, oh, hey, where I wonder is that massive Greyjoy fleet that keeps fucking us up?  

[divica]

1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

I don't see that point at all. Daenerys had flashes of rage and ruthlessness since season 1. Everyone should have understood that she is on the verge to become a mad queen. Tyrion and Varys needed again and again to talk her out of gross brutality.

How she handled jon's reveal was strange! She should have wanted to marry him, be happy there are other targs, being confused because she isn t the heir to the it,something...

She wanting jon to be silent and pretend she doesn t know is simply awkward!

Varys and tyrion sudenly not wanting her to be keen is weird! They have been suporting her for years! Varys could easily have United the reach and dorne with anyone else against the lannisters but he still choose danny. And while they have expressed concern for danny burning the tarlys there wasn t any doubt that she can be a great queen.

Mostly in a single ep they took danny's arc in the oposite direction it has been going for years. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by divica

[MinscS2]

16 minutes ago, divica said:

How she handled jon's reveal was strange! She should have wanted to marry him, be happy there are other targs, being confused because she isn t the heir to the it,something...

This is what I expected to happen as well.

Evidently D&D wanted Daenerys to become a villain in a very short spawn of time before the end, so every logical step that would take her away from that path is ignored or downplayed, while every step that increases her chances of breaking and succumbing to darkness is forcibly thrown her way, even those that make no sense what so ever (like "forgetting" about Eurons fleet, or how she's isolated during the feast, or Varys instantly turning on her, etc.), ultimately because the script said so.

It's storytelling at it's absolute worst 

[LucyMormont]

2 hours ago, Kajjo said:

E4 is the worst rated episode so far. Why is it? I liked E4. It was worse then E2 but not worse then E3.

E4 had several interesting developments, it lacked a bit in dialogue and emotions, though.

I also thought it was better than episode 3. I gave it 3 whole points over episode 3. The reasons for ppl rating it below -I think- are several, and you can see a sample in the comments

1) People who had never made a review before, are signing up and reviewing just out of pure disappointment.

2) The treatment given to Rhaegal and Ghost. Rhaegal survived a fight with an undead dragon and the Night King riding it, to be shot down in that moronic, inconsequential,stupid, incredible way. And Ghost, our beloved Ghost was mistreated the whole season 8, it was worse than not appearing at all. To have Jon "exile" him without a hug, some words of aknowledgement, was unforgivable. Let's face it, it, in a show where all characters have become unlikable in some way, the "pets" shine, and everybody loves them.

3) Some people gave episode 3 a pass, simply because they didn't buy it, they didn't believe that that was all about the Night King. They were expecting that in episode 4 we'll get some great twist, or at least some explanations given by Bran about the whole WW storyline  (Prince that was Promised, Children of the Forest,  Lord of Light, all that)

4) In episode 3 they ruined Jon and Bran mainly. In episode 4 they also ruined Jaime (making him turn back and reverse his path of redemption, or at least that is how it was perceived him turning back to Kings Landing). Danaerys (who they are clearly putting in a mad queen direction), Sansa (who broke her oath in 2 seconds), and also Arya (who one minute is all about family and the following is leaving and "not planning to return"). Basically, the writing is upsetting all characters' fans.

5) In episode 3, a great % of the fandom wanted and expected to watch a fight between Jon and the NK. They "subverted expectations" by not giving them what they wanted. In episode 4, a greater % of the fandom wanted to watch Arya and Sansa reaction to Jon's identity. They made it happen off screen.

All this was just the  straw that broke the camel's back, frustration over frustration, it was simply too much for many people.

[Kajjo]

2 hours ago, divica said:

Mostly in a single ep they took danny's arc in the oposite direction it has been going for years. 

No, they didn't. It was going int his direction for years, only some hardcore fanboys of Daenerys didn't want to see it. It has been discussed here since years.

2 hours ago, divica said:

She wanting jon to be silent and pretend she doesn t know is simply awkward!

Right, weird, but a possible Daenerys reaction. She wants to be queen at any price.

2 hours ago, divica said:

Varys and tyrion sudenly not wanting her

Vary is a turn-coat and has been so before. Tyrion is still on her side.

Both had had to talk her out off mad reactions full of fury, rage and brutality already in Meeren. 

[Kajjo]

1 hour ago, LucyMormont said:

All this was just the  straw that broke the camel's back, frustration over frustration, it was simply too much for many people.

Thanks for your efforts. Yes, I see the shortcomings, but some issues are overrated.

 

[House Cambodia]

6 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

No, they didn't. It was going int his direction for years, only some hardcore fanboys of Daenerys didn't want to see it. It has been discussed here since years.

Right, weird, but a possible Daenerys reaction. She wants to be queen at any price.

Vary is a turn-coat and has been so before. Tyrion is still on her side.

Both had had to talk her out off mad reactions full of fury, rage and brutality already in Meeren. 

Agree on all point; however, Varys is no fair-weather turncoat. I'd say he analyses the politics very deeply and pretty much is always right.

Tyrion is still on her side, but you could see in his face and hear in his voice that every time he defended her he felt less and less convinced in his own mind. He's absolutely on the cusp on realising he's made a huge mistake. I expect that the be a key feature of the next episode.

[Kajjo]

2 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Tyrion is still on her side, but you could see in his face and hear in his voice that every time he defended her he felt less and less convinced in his own mind.

Yes, Tyrion is beginning to have doubt and at least evaluates alternatives. This was already clear when Sansa offered him an alternative and again when discussing with Varys.

3 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

He's absolutely on the cusp on realising he's made a huge mistake. I expect that the be a key feature of the next episode.

Well, the key feature will be how Daenerys reacts. She has a face of pure fury, grief and rage (well played, by the way) and I expect her to take Drogon for a ride of fiery attack.

Tyrion has been once again a bad hand and failed in the negotiations. He lost again against his sister. Too many losses and fails. She should dismiss him as hand. If she survives the battle.

 

 

[MinscS2]

Just now, Kajjo said:

No, they didn't. It was going int his direction for years, only some hardcore fanboys of Daenerys didn't want to see it. It has been discussed here since years.

This simply isn't true. 

Daenerys has always had a callous and ruthless streak about her, that's nothing new, but she's never acted insane or evil.
Her common thread has always been as a champion and protector of the downtrodden/innocent. Call it her mhysa-arc if you will.
It began all the way back in S1 before even Viserys died, and has been part of her arc the entire time. 
She may have thought and spoken about burning cities to the ground, but the thought of killing innocents has always been what ultimately causes her to calm down and consider a different approach. 
Last episode she basically threw this mhysa-arc, including all of her morals and values out the window when she willfully started to talk about killing innocents "for the greater good". This is a complete reversal of her mhysa-arc, and it's so sudden and contrived that it's unbelievable.

And calling Daenerys insane is an overstatement. Anyone in her position would be furious, sad and hell-bent on revenge. 
That's not insanity, that's a fully normal reaction to what she's been trough lately. Or was Jon also insane when he rushed Ramsays battleline at the Battle of the Bastards? Was Sansa also insane when she fed Ramsay to his hounds? Or was Arya also insane when she killed all of the Frey's?
Acting out of anger is not insanity.

Daenerys decent into (real) insanity could've been made believable, it could even be great to watch - but it would require a lot more time and a level of careful and good writing that D&D are incapable off. 

Now you can call me a Daenerys fanboy if you want, but that doesn't make what I said less true.

[Kajjo]

2 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Daenerys has always had a callous and ruthless streak about her

Agreed. Brutal, ruthless, callous, with a tendency to snap-reactions and overdoing it.

2 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Call it her mhysa-arc if you will.

Yes, she has the good side, too, the warm, with heart and goodness.

3 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

She may have thought and spoken about burning cities to the ground, but the thought of killing innocents has always been what ultimately causes her to calm down and consider a different approach. 

Hm, yes, but only because Tyrion and Varys reminded her about her father. This was foreshadowing, like it or not.

4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

And calling Daenerys insane is an overstatement. Anyone in her position would be furious, sad and hell-bent on revenge. 

Yes, then don't call it "mad" but snapping to fury and rage and that lies in her personality and parentage.

4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Acting out of anger is not insanity.

That's right, but how far you go in anger and rage might be connected to it.

The Mad King started out much better in younger years, too, and went to "burn them all" in a time of despair. 

5 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

This simply isn't true. 

Well, I still believe it is. I am open to terminology discussions and maybe we shouldn't call it madness in the narrower sense of the word. But Daenerys has a tendency to instability / anger, rage and fury / snapping and overreacting with an acceptance of brutality and mass killings.

[House Cambodia]

1 minute ago, MinscS2 said:

Daenerys has always had a callous and ruthless streak about her, that's nothing new, but she's never acted insane or evil.

Yes, but actually I don't think she's acting mad or evil even now. I think people who say she is are guilty of lazy thinking or drawing a hasty comparison with her father. For me, the changes in her reactions and behaviour are entirely down to changed circumstances rather than some dodgy genes. In Essos, once the dragons had hatched, she nearly always had a large devoted following, at least once she got to Qarth - Dothraki, Unsullied, freed slaves with her enemies being a minority. Now in Westeros she has a tiny minority of people she can depend upon and the majority are against her.  Her two closest confidents and two of her three 'children' have recently been slaughtered. I think that what she contemplating next is rational and understandable, but so is the reaction of those who are not willing to see a million innocents burned.