[Poll] How would you rate episode 804?

[Amaretto]

The Last of the Starks is now the worst rated GOT episode with has 7.5 rating on IMDB, quite a long way behind the previous record holder of Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken (8.1)

[Maester Vargo]

Probably the worst episode I've ever seen.  One of the worst episodes I've ever seen of any show, ever. 

[Dornish Mage]

7/10.

I'm surprised that there are still filler episodes, considering that the plot has to be wrapped up in this last season. I'm disappointed that Daenerys is going "the mad queen" route, I always thought it was just a thing that Dany haters used to preach, since in both books and earlier seasons there was no any solid evidence that she would get so obsessed with the Iron Throne in the end. But her character arc and ending is what grrm's decided to do, not D&D, so can't blame them for that.

Did not expect Euron's fleet to be hiding in Dragonstone and was really surprised that Rhaegal got killed so easily by state-of-the-art corssbow-things (I think that dragons can be killed only if the bolt hits their eye, but no one cares about staying true to established lore, so whatever).

Overall, a slow episode but I admit it kept me in suspense since everyone is so antagonistic towards each other. But shocking scenes just for the sake of being shocking is not a very good writing is it? 

[Dornish Mage]

Also, how come Dany and Jon were supposed to be in love but that love lasted in the 7th season only?

[State Trooper]

Gave it a 7, some good, some bad.

Jon leaving Ghost didn't bother me as much as a lot of people, although like a lot of stuff it did seem a bit rushed, same as Tormund leaving and the way Jon said goodbye to Sam and Gilly. Sort of, "nice knowing you, don't forget to write, bye!"

As others have said, and although I love the three characters, the scene with Jaime, Tyrion and Bronn was very odd. Again it felt rushed and something they thought they just had to put in. Having said that, if it means Bronn not eventually killing them, then that's OK in my book.

Plus, it also leaves the possibility that Jaime and Bronn might well meet up on the King's Road, because that's definitely not the last we've seen of him.

Enjoyed the opening, all the scenes with Arya, and of course Jaime and Brienne finally getting it on, even if it did end in tears.

Odds on Brienne now going beyond the Wall with Tormund?

I wasn't expecting the ambush at all, which I enjoyed, and certainly not that they'd kill off another Dragon so quickly. Wasn't bothered about Messi going one way or another.

Bad move by Jon telling Sansa and Arya the truth and even worse that Sansa couldn't keep it a secret for longer than five minutes. Man, is the shit gonna hit the fan!

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by State Trooper

[darksellsword]

Dreadful episode I rated it 1. They started assassinating Daenerys character now after they humiliated Jon during the battle of winterfell, to see her begging Jon and asking him to hide who he is because she is so powerhungry at all cost was so cringeworthy. They took so much from her this episode and shoehorned her madness in there so fast it was sickening. I laughed at Euron being there with all his ships waiting possibly for months hoping that Daenerys would come flying by and her ships sailing along there for absolutely no reason. D&D are opperating at the level of ' hey the biggest threat against her are those ironisland makeshift pirates how do we give them the advantage, lets have her sailing down there even though she knows they have almost 1000 ships and scorpions' , it is utterly braindead at this point although I will give Daenerys some slack she couldn't have known they had hundreds of scorpions mounted on ships that can fire in any direction and reload in secs. At what point do secondary characters deserve to die. I will give you the answer, when they turn on the people they've shared 90 percent of their banter with and do something really stupid and vicious like Bron did with the Lannister brothers. I wish this idiot was dead now, infact I would've gotten a lot more satisfaction from Jaime randomly jumping to his feet, side stepping him and putting widows wail through his chest, it would've been so fitting that Bronn succeeds mostly because people underestimate him as just being a cutthroat it would've been poetic had he underestimated how good Jaime could become with just his left hand. I suppose he will pop up later in the story kill someone in a pointless fashion or die a meaningless death. The ironic thing about this episode is it pissed all over some of D&D's biggest triumphs. We as a presumably large section of the fanbase liked and related to tv show Daenerys far more than we ever did in the books. The idea of having someone fans have been cheering on for 7 seasons turn mad and have people openly betraying her and plotting against her was disgusting. Bron was a character they built on with the show and played a lot of fan service there but for it all ultimately to end with him randomly punching Tyrion in the nose just felt meaningless. I heard the story of how the actor that plays Bron(Jerome Flynn) dated the actress that played Cersei (lena Heady) and it ended so badly that they both had it in their contracts to never be in a scene together. I feel season 7 finale and now these last episodes suffer from that as it is pretty ridiculous that Bron is supposed to be playing out a dilema as to whether he supports Cersei or Tyrion & Jaime when they can't even have Cersei and Bron in the same room. I feel D&D pandered to the actors wishes and the perceived wishes of fans on this show and it has had a horrific result on character and plot development. Cersei should not have been the end game boss but I think Lena heady influenced the writers to the point where they extended her characters life by 1 season. It is my natural gut instinct that Cersei should've died somewhere in season 7, perhaps even before the whole Queen cersei maleficent shite began but when you have an actress that has been central to the show from the beginning and has no character death in the source material, of course you run the risk of having them say well I feel my character could do this that and the other and the showrunners feel obliged to go along with it. We can only know for sure when George finishes the books but Cersei lost all relevance for me when her children died and she blew up the sept of baelor. I can only hope that once this charade is over and George finally completes this saga that we get some kind of direct adaptation to an animated series or something.

[Krishtotter]

I rated this episode a 6 because it was really a "tale of two halves": the first segment of the episode was actually very good (deserving of the "8" that 33 posters decided to give it) whilst the second segment was badder than bad, literally without a single redeeming quality (and hence worthy of the inglorious "1" that 35 of our fellow posters decided to give it). 

On Rotten Tomatoes and IMBD, it is apparent that no episode of GoT has divided its audience more than this one. Partly, this has to do with justifiable outrage at the narrative idiocy of the preceding episode and its hamfisted anticlimax in terms of what was supposed to be 'the Great War' since season 1, and partly on the merits of this episode itself (when viewed as a single unit without considering the context from last episode). 

When the episode opened, I initially thought, "ok, after the unremitting disaster and logic by-pass that was episode 3, after which I almost abandoned the show entirely because of its premature termination of the NK/White Walker plot without any real meaningful pay-off, this is actually back to old-style GoT". 

The Good

I liked the 'wake', with the long-panning shots over the pyres of the dead, which I thought was delicately handled and appropriately reverential.

The 'drinking' scenes reminded me of those screened in RoK in LoTR after the Battle of Helms Deep and again, there was some decent characterisation here, as we saw Dany becoming jealous of, and paranoid about, the respect given naturally to Jon in the North, which is supposed to be one of her Seven Kingdoms. This evidently dented Dany's composure, because she has both a lesser claim to the throne than he does by primogeniture and evokes much less devotion from any but her freed slaves and Dothraki hordes back in Essos. 

Her discussion with Jon was good and revealing about her true aims: her 'love' for him is entirely subordinate to gaining the throne. 

I enjoyed the machiavellian, skull-skulduggery scenes involving Sansa and Daenerys, Sansa and Tyrion, and Tyrion and Varys. Finally, we have oodles of old-fashioned GoT intrigue and the growing coup d'etat amongst Dany's advisors, as they rightly discern what I've been saying all along - that she is an idealistic, revolutionary Robespierran-dictator in the making, who is potentially capable of inflicting a holocaust to implement her vision of a utopia under her singular rule, when cleansed of all tyrants and traitors - and respond differently to the revelation of Jon's birthright and greater claim. 

The Bad

The episode was incredibly rushed at the end.

It started with Brienne's characterisation in this episode - one sex scene with Jaime and she ends up a sobbing wreck pleading with him not to leave for Kings Landing. Something about that doesn't ring quite true for me. 

Then, we had the 'intrusion' of that extremely silly scene where Bronn just 'appears' from the shadows in the middle of heavily fortified Winterfell - as if he is the great stealth-ninja there ever was! That was shit, frankly. 

After that, the story suddenly and unevenly changes out of nowhere: Euron - freaking Euron, a pirate! - manages to do what no one save the Night King, even in the middle of last season's huge Goldroad Battle, unilaterally take out Rhaegal. It just happens without any narrative build-up - as if the D&D just thought, "this'll shock 'em". 

In the books, Euron has a special kind of horn that he harvested from the ruins of Old Valyria, which can be used to "bind" and control dragons. In his book role as "dragonbinder", Euron would indeed be the most formidable enemy of Dany's dragons and potentially be able to kill them - but the TV series never introduced this crucial weapon and so Euron's random deus ex machina felling of Rhaegal is completely illogical within the scope of the show. 

We then 'teleport' to Kings Landing from Dragonstone, where Dany's army and advisors soon turn up and are treated to that god awful scene where Missandei is killed for shock-value and Tyrion attempts to parley with Cersei by appealing to her innate goodness and love for her children (I mean, really?). 

The Round-up

In light of the foregoing, it does not surprise me that some professional reviewers online have opined that, "the bulk of [episode 4] was filled with the sort of palace intrigue and character dynamics that made the show" great in its heyday and that it was returning to its "machiavellian best", whilst others have complained that "this episode was one of the biggest disappointments of the season so far" and that it was unremittingly atrocious. 

In truth, both are right - this episode showcased the best and worst of what GoT has become since season 4. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Krishtotter

[Krishtotter]

7 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

They started assassinating Daenerys character now after they humiliated Jon during the battle of winterfell, to see her begging Jon and asking him to hide who he is because she is so powerhungry at all cost was so cringeworthy.

Not a valid criticism imo. 

Big swathes of the episode were dire but Dany's characterisation is consistent with her character arc in the books and show, where she has long been becoming an idealistic dictator capable of brutality in the name of utopian aims and the pursuit of her narrow-minded life agenda for the throne. 

Her end-state is the one GRRM intended. D&D haven't got there particularly well in places but they can't be blamed for the way GRRM wrote her and many have understood her, including myself. 

I think a lot of undue hate is coming from Dany fans, who are 'burnt' that their girl is turning out the way Dany critics have long predicted. One reviewer, for instance, writing in the Telegraph fumed that "Daenerys goes from messiah to antichrist in a single bound". That's grossly unfair - I, among many other people, have been warning that she evidenced deeply worrying signs for ages!

It is consistent and not inconsistent with her character, and is indeed the logical outcome of the way GRRM wrote her.  

Edited May 6, 2019 by Krishtotter

[darksellsword]

30 minutes ago, Krishtotter said:

Not a valid criticism imo. 

Big swathes of the episode were dire but Dany's characterisation is consistent with her character arc in the books and show, where she has long been becoming an idealistic dictator capable of brutality in the name of utopian aims and the pursuit of her narrow-minded life agenda for the throne. 

Her end-state is the one GRRM intended. D&D haven't got there particularly well in places but they can't be blamed for the way GRRM wrote her and many have understood her, including myself. 

I think a lot of undue hate is coming from Dany fans, who are 'burnt' that their girl is turning out the way Dany critics have long predicted. One reviewer, for instance, writing in the Telegraph fumed that "Daenerys goes from messiah to antichrist in a single bound". That's grossly unfair - I, among many other people, have been warning that she evidenced deeply worrying signs for ages!

It is consistent and not inconsistent with her character, and is indeed the logical outcome of the way GRRM wrote her.  

My criticism was based on Daenerys of the Tv show. I enjoyed book Daenerys chapters but I didn't have any attachment. Tv show Daenerys has had some dodgy bend the knee or die moments but for the most part before season 7 they've nearly always been somewhat justifiable. I mean nobody called Ned Stark a Tyrant when he was beheading people or Jon snow for that matter. I think it is fair to say that most end of the season moments for Daenerys gave people great enjoyment and faith in the idea that she could bring a sense of order and justice to Westeros. btw "idealistic dictator capable of brutality in the name of utopian aims and the pursuit of her narrow-minded life agenda for the throne. " that is how most people could describe every king of Westeros that has been called a good king.

Edited May 6, 2019 by darksellsword

[MinscS2]

This episode made me and the three people I watched the episode with all go:

We waited almost 2 years ... for THIS!?

I've never seen so many plotholes and characters being butchered in one single episode before. 

You can really tell that D&D are bored with GoT at this point, the writing from a story PoV is beyond atrocious and so rushed it's not even funny. 

If the next two episodes follow the same path that this episode laid out, Game of Thrones the TV-show will be remembered as something that started great, but ended up shit.

Edited May 6, 2019 by MinscS2

[#teamNightking]

57 minutes ago, Krishtotter said:

as if the D&D just thought, "this'll shock 'em". 

It's glaringly apparent that 99% of the writing currently aims for shock value and last minute saves. They'll sacrifice whatever they need to to achieve it. Plot, character arcs and development, logic etc...

It's like they decided to make nearly every moment of the past seasons some mini version of the Red Wedding. 

I'm so disgusted with this show. 

[House Cambodia]

7 is my bang-average score for a GoT episode, and this was bang-average.

[RhaenysBee]

After the previous episode, I’m wasn’t surprised at anything at least. You know, after you hit rock bottom there’s only upwards. In a relative sense at least. 

What can I say? 

I laughed a lot. 

I’m not sure that was the intention of this episode, but it did make me laugh. Loads. 

Aside from the shallow laughs, the episode did not any other feelings in me whatsoever, though I suspect that was its actual intention. 

It had more redeeming aspects than the previous one. It was laughable. But tolerable. So I guess a 3/10 it is. 

[Red Dragon10]

1 hour ago, State Trooper said:

Odds on Brienne now going beyond the Wall with Tormund?

0 in my opinion.  The 'affection' has always been on Tormund's side.  Brienne has no interest. 

[State Trooper]

3 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

0 in my opinion.  The 'affection' has always been on Tormund's side.  Brienne has no interest. 

Agreed, but that was before Jaime broke her heart. Maybe Tormund will play on her vulnerability and make his move while he can?

Guess we'll have to wait and see. I just want her to be happy

[White Walker King]

9/10

Wow! First episode of GoT I've enjoyed in a long time. Looks like GoT still excels when the conflict is between humans not some "other". The emotional wrenching, the scheming, and the ruthlessness of the world of Westeros have all made a comeback. Bronn threatening the Lannister brothers, Jaime leaving to fight for Cersei and the final scene of course were all very powerful. I'm excited like a little kid to see what's going to happen next!

I felt they were a bit harsh on the audience in letting another dragon die, some people were definitely going to be depressed after that scene, but they really had to make sure that Daenarys is the character we want to root for. 

[Restless]

I'll keep it short:

GoT in picture, season by season

[erenust]

I gave it a 7/10.

This was an episode I was expecting for a long time. I always thought Dany would become a darker character, even though I didn't quite expect this to happen in such an overt manner. I thought the reactions to Jon Snow's revelation and the dynamics between the characters were interesting.

With that being said, I understand why some people take issue with this episode. The attack by Euron didn't make a lot of sense for various reasons. The negotiation scene was highly unrealistic too. I also felt that her advisors turned on Dany a bit too quickly.

[MagicPen]

First 1/10 i ever gave as a rating to a GOT episode, this was by all means a big steaming pile of shit.

[Tyrellius]

What a load of crap.  What shitty writing. I am très disappoint. 

You've got a a faceless man in Arya, who doesnt spill the beans and just say "BRB off to KL, you guys just chill", a dragon being killed by ballista on a ship, the entirety of Dany's command structure standing outside KL with nary a horse in site and... fuck it why waste anymore effort on this tosh.  I'm off to Starbucks.