Rant & Rave Without Repercussion [book and show spoilers]

[darmody]

17 hours ago, divica said:

Danny won t have anyone to counsel her. 

Is that for the better or worse? Because her advisors suck. She got out of Dothraki trouble by burning everything. She got out of Mereen by burning. She got out of the Warlock hut by burning. She got her Unsullied by burning, she got her dragons by burning. It's her thing. 

[darksellsword]

I knew Daenerys would end up burning everyone because know it all 2eyed raven Lady Olenna told her to ignore the advice of smart men and "be a dragon".

[Dragonslack]

No need to have a heart attack because of this now very lame show that considering the money spent, is terrible.

Why is the show like that, besides the incompetence of D&D the sisterly buddies?

Most of the money goes to the actors, a million an episode, that is why they finished the show early and with lesser but longer episodes. Then there is Dumb and Dumber's cut and GRRM's cut. The rest is spent mostly on CGI. Of that the dragons take the bigger cut followed by the zombies.

So logically they killed two dragons (off screen would not have been worse), ignored the direwolves, and finished up the zombies early in a domino fashion. They save the budget on a tarantinoesque dialogue episode for a battle episode. Notice the absence of extras or their quick demise into the dark or the magically still half alive army. Notice the off screen cut to black happenings.

 

The story and dialogue is now below fanfic level (no books and no GRRM) because fanfic would at least respect some plot points that come from the beginning.

They don't care about consistency or logic or plot or personality. They only care for fan service and the occasional subversion of expectations. They are rich and famous so maybe it is working and the audience is just on average dumb and easily distracted with bells and flashy lights (and they know it).

 

Even so there was no need for lazy and crazy: superscorpio marysue, midfight political treason, underwhelming dragons, rape is good for character, pristine destroyed winterfell, bronn and jaimie ridiculous plot, 1000th naval surprise; disaster but still army intact, etc etc etc ...

 

It would be hard to do much worse on purpose. Shame! Shame! Shame!

It has scorpioed the dragon, passing the point of watching just for seeing the silliness and laughing. Who cares about the ending?

There is also the copycat phenomenon, LOTR had the scouring of the shire after Sauron's demise so like little monkeys that don't quite understand, they are doing the same in their own way (GRRM appreciated that ending and said he was gonna do the same). Like Odysseus, there is a final bittersweet battle after the main conflict.

 

 

 

[Prince of the North]

3 hours ago, btfu806 said:

I don't think they plan that far ahead unfortunately. Would definitely be a twist. I don't think the last two holy shit moments made any sense so maybe this won't either to me, so maybe you're right haha.

Agreed.  There is very little evidence that they planned much of anything ahead of time (but they're certainly not above ret-conning).  And don't worry about things not making sense.  I'm sure they'll explain everything in the remaining Outside the Episodes (but it still won't make a lick of sense).

1 hour ago, Frances Bean Corbray said:

the fucking Starbucks cup, man.

Seriously.

the fucking Starbucks cup.

Yep, there's that attention to detail we know and love!  /s  

[Zorral]

50 minutes ago, Dragonslack said:

Most of the money goes to the actors, a million an episode, that is why they finished the show early and with lesser but longer episodes. Then there is Dumb and Dumber's cut and GRRM's cut. The rest is spent mostly on CGI. Of that the dragons take the bigger cut followed by the zombies.

You're missing how much it costs to hire and transport, house and pay the enormous tech crews to light, shoot, dress the sets and actors -- and purchase or rent all the materials necessary.  You are also missing how much it costs to rent the locations such as the castles in Sevilla and so on.  Not to mention how much they spend on promotion and marketing.  There were enormous amounts of money spent on this.  In the end, the salaries of the actors is actually the smaller part of the accounting by far (though this is where every production goes first to squeeze, along with the writers' salaries -- particularly going after the women's salaries first).

All that said, of course, with 8:4 They did jump All the Sharks, and They aren't fooling All the People All the Time anymore.

With a full two years to work on this, it's very hard to find any justification for the mess They made.

[Gianna Dorenberg]

Arya: We're family ! The four of us. The last of the Starks.

*minutes later*

Arya: Bye bitches, I'm out. F my family and the North I'm never coming back hahaha.

[Dragonslack]

24 minutes ago, Zorral said:

You're missing how much it costs to hire and transport, house and pay the enormous tech crews to light, shoot, dress the sets and actors -- and purchase or rent all the materials necessary.  You are also missing how much it costs to rent the locations such as the castles in Sevilla and so on.  Not to mention how much they spend on promotion and marketing.  There were enormous amounts of money spent on this.  In the end, the salaries of the actors is actually the smaller part of the accounting by far (though this is where every production goes first to squeeze, along with the writers' salaries -- particularly going after the women's salaries first).

All that said, of course, with 8:4 They did jump All the Sharks, and They aren't fooling All the People All the Time anymore.

With a full two years to work on this, it's very hard to find any justification for the mess They made.

1) locations are getting more and more ridiculous like tiny desolate King's Landing or just two rooms in winterfell and of course fake cgi (Dexter rarely left LA). Next episode (battle) will bring more stuff. Last season, expected better (starbucks lol).

2) dont worry, like big bang theory they all get the same, the main plot armour characters, majority women and favorite actor is Lena.

 

Who and with what story would do better with the same budget?

I bet actors on the LOTR show will have long term contracts.

[Cas Stark]

https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-recap-season-8-episode-4/

The breaking, no matter how grand and terrible, loses all meaning when the people at the heart of it feel like pawns that have no interiority or personal consistency and just shift around to say and do whatever sounds most awesome. You have, at that point, lost the plot or forgotten the entire point of plot. It's not sounding or feeling cool from moment to moment. It's about the people, and all the weird and wonderful and extremely sad ways they interact, even and especially when there are ice zombies and dragons and fake worlds circumscribing them. There is no amount of sound and fury and Jon Snow literally just screaming at a dragon that will substitute.

 

It doesn't always have to be kind (and probably shouldn't be). It doesn't have to be the most crowd-pleasing (and probably shouldn't be), but it has to feel earned. And Game of Thrones is not earning its shit anymore.

[darmody]

19 hours ago, Squall said:

That would be very sad if D&D start cribbing from Star Wars Obi Wan: "You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the force... not leave it in darkness!"

And with regards to Varys dying in Westeros, I don't think Mel said he had to drop dead within a month, he could never leave and add a few more years on borrowed time.

Jon: "From my point of view, my auntie is evil!"

[Centrist Simon Steele]

So, I've been hearing around (not here necessarily) that one argument from characters in the show about supporting Jon over Dany for the throne is that he's the "rightful" heir. This confuses me. I'll admit, I'm not watching this season (I missed the first episode, then all the bad feedback allowed me to cancel HBO and just enjoy this thread), but why is Jon's claim any better than Dany's? From what I remember from the books, Rhaegar may have married Lyanna in secret, but did he divorce (or whatever) Elia? If he did, does that annul the rightful claim that his other children had? If not, then Jon's claim seems shaky. Especially since this was all in secret. I'm no lineage expert, but Jon's claim seems less valid than Dany's who is not secretly the sister of Rhaegar, but actually the sister of Rhaegar. Jon is secretly the son of two people who secretly married. His claim is as strong as Gendry's to Storms End--which is to say, Jon is a good successor if Dany dies. 

I mean, Jon's existence is a threat to Dany's claim, but he in no way is the clear front runner for the throne. Shit, Gendry has a better claim to the Iron Throne than Jon at this point since the throne was won by Baratheon conquest. So it would seem that whoever takes the throne from Cersei gets the throne. If Dany does all the work, it doesn't make sense that Tyrion and Vaerys would be like, "Hold on, let's look at these royal papers of yours..."

[Corvinus85]

1 minute ago, Simon Steele said:

So, I've been hearing around (not here necessarily) that one argument from characters in the show about supporting Jon over Dany for the throne is that he's the "rightful" heir. This confuses me. I'll admit, I'm not watching this season (I missed the first episode, then all the bad feedback allowed me to cancel HBO and just enjoy this thread), but why is Jon's claim any better than Dany's? From what I remember from the books, Rhaegar may have married Lyanna in secret, but did he divorce (or whatever) Elia? If he did, does that annul the rightful claim that his other children had? If not, then Jon's claim seems shaky. Especially since this was all in secret. I'm no lineage expert, but Jon's claim seems less valid than Dany's who is not secretly the sister of Rhaegar, but actually the sister of Rhaegar. Jon is secretly the son of two people who secretly married. His claim is as strong as Gendry's to Storms End--which is to say, Jon is a good successor if Dany dies. 

I mean, Jon's existence is a threat to Dany's claim, but he in no way is the clear front runner for the throne. Shit, Gendry has a better claim to the Iron Throne than Jon at this point since the throne was won by Baratheon conquest. So it would seem that whoever takes the throne from Cersei gets the throne. If Dany does all the work, it doesn't make since that Tyrion and Vaerys would be like, "Hold on, let's look at these royal papers of yours..."

Show only: Sam (really Gilly) found the diary of the septon who married Rhaegar and Lyanna, and apparently, annul his marriage to Elia. So Jon is the lawful son of Rhaegar. You're right that the secrecy of the marriage poses a problem, and it could result in lords choosing to believe the truth of that document or not. Otherwise, his claim is better based on the Westerosi succession laws.

[Nightwish]

2 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

So, I've been hearing around (not here necessarily) that one argument from characters in the show about supporting Jon over Dany for the throne is that he's the "rightful" heir. This confuses me. I'll admit, I'm not watching this season (I missed the first episode, then all the bad feedback allowed me to cancel HBO and just enjoy this thread), but why is Jon's claim any better than Dany's? From what I remember from the books, Rhaegar may have married Lyanna in secret, but did he divorce (or whatever) Elia? If he did, does that annul the rightful claim that his other children had? If not, then Jon's claim seems shaky. Especially since this was all in secret. I'm no lineage expert, but Jon's claim seems less valid than Dany's who is not secretly the sister of Rhaegar, but actually the sister of Rhaegar. Jon is secretly the son of two people who secretly married. His claim is as strong as Gendry's to Storms End--which is to say, Jon is a good successor if Dany dies. 

I mean, Jon's existence is a threat to Dany's claim, but he in no way is the clear front runner for the throne. Shit, Gendry has a better claim to the Iron Throne than Jon at this point since the throne was won by Baratheon conquest. So it would seem that whoever takes the throne from Cersei gets the throne. If Dany does all the work, it doesn't make since that Tyrion and Vaerys would be like, "Hold on, let's look at these royal papers of yours..."

For anyone becoming King or Queen, they have to conquer the throne first, apparently. Dany is using her lineage and her right to the throne so that people can support her quest. Apparently neither John's claim has any meaning if he does not fight to get the throne. 

But being a male Targaryen descendant and from the north  can fire up a "rebellion" against Dany's claim creating another front. At least that's the way I see it. 

[Cas Stark]

8 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

So, I've been hearing around (not here necessarily) that one argument from characters in the show about supporting Jon over Dany for the throne is that he's the "rightful" heir. This confuses me. I'll admit, I'm not watching this season (I missed the first episode, then all the bad feedback allowed me to cancel HBO and just enjoy this thread), but why is Jon's claim any better than Dany's? From what I remember from the books, Rhaegar may have married Lyanna in secret, but did he divorce (or whatever) Elia? If he did, does that annul the rightful claim that his other children had? If not, then Jon's claim seems shaky. Especially since this was all in secret. I'm no lineage expert, but Jon's claim seems less valid than Dany's who is not secretly the sister of Rhaegar, but actually the sister of Rhaegar. Jon is secretly the son of two people who secretly married. His claim is as strong as Gendry's to Storms End--which is to say, Jon is a good successor if Dany dies. 

I mean, Jon's existence is a threat to Dany's claim, but he in no way is the clear front runner for the throne. Shit, Gendry has a better claim to the Iron Throne than Jon at this point since the throne was won by Baratheon conquest. So it would seem that whoever takes the throne from Cersei gets the throne. If Dany does all the work, it doesn't make sense that Tyrion and Vaerys would be like, "Hold on, let's look at these royal papers of yours..."

Aerys was king.  Rhaegar was his heir.  Jon is Rhaegar's son.  That puts him ahead of any of Rhaegar's siblings, male or female.  It would put him ahead of Dany even if he were female. 

Gendry was a bastard, and in the show at least Jon was not, but trueborn. 

[darmody]

18 hours ago, divica said:

The only one that acts like a stark is jon. I think the title is probably related to that?

All his cousins are ready to kick danny's but to KL while jon is the one that wants to act honorably and keep his word. Starks don t behave like sansa or bran… arya I am not certain...

I don't know who the title would refer to but Sansa, though obviously Bran and Arya are still alive. They're just not into the whole Winterfell North Remembers Winter Coming thimg. 

[Tianzi]

OK, just one thing:

Rhaegal gets about five shots from greater dstance. They all hit him.

Drogon gets 982472398523 from up close, right in the face. None hits him.

[Tianzi]

Ah, sorry. Second thing:

Jon is culturally a Northener. Marrying an aunt is nay-nay. But kissing/banging is ok? Can we go to early days in the show when they at least pretended that most ppl are disgusted with incest?

[Gertrude]

28 minutes ago, darmody said:

I don't know who the title would refer to but Sansa, though obviously Bran and Arya are still alive. They're just not into the whole Winterfell North Remembers Winter Coming thimg. 

There must always be a Stark in Winterfell. In other words, I agree. Sandra Bolton is the last true Stark in the show. Bran is beyond, Arya ain't coming home again and Jon threw away Ghost.

[Prince of the North]

25 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

OK, just one thing:

Rhaegal gets about five shots from greater dstance. They all hit him.

Drogon gets 982472398523 from up close, right in the face. None hits him.

Whatever the plot* demands!!!

*Apologies to plots everywhere for implying that this travesty actually has "plot" but you get my meaning. 

[darksellsword]

I wouldn't be surprised if they shoehorn in the second sons arriving in an Deus ex machina kind of way and saving the battle in the last minute.

[kissdbyfire]

7 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they shoehorn in the second sons arriving in an Deus ex machina kind of way and saving the battle in the last minute.

You could have finished your sentence right there, where the bold ends. Because sadly, we shouldn’t be surprised by anything at this point. That’s how badly the show runners have handled things, to the point where virtually anything could happen. We could get space ships, Madre Teresa, tribbles, anything.