Rant & Rave Without Repercussion [book and show spoilers]

[Lady Fevre Dream]

2 hours ago, dannyk65 said:

When I was 4, i only had a few adult teeth.  I did have a bunch of loose baby teeth, though.  And I fell on my face onto the wood floor, as a 4 year old boy is wont to do, and thought my loose fang (bicuspid) popped out....it was the bottom corner (about 20% total) of my front (central incisor) which was one of my only, and biggest adult teeth.  

I immediately needed a root canal.  Since it had been a few hours and I wasn't complaining of pain (and maybe for other dentist reasons) they chose not to give me anything for the pain...

Right before I graduated college the inside of that same tooth, obv sans root, became infected and I had another root canal which basically re-filled the area where the root/nerve once was.  

So I've had 2 root canals, 1 with zero novacaine, and neither was actually as bad as last week's episode.

Ah, you are lucky.  I have dental horror stories from a very young age, too.  By the time I was in kindergarten/1st grade, I was already on my second dentist because the first one had the nerve to tell me that things didn't hurt, LOL  My mom even thought that was a bit rude, and I had very early childhood root canal as well.  They drugged me up so good.......that one wasn't really a problem, it was only in adulthood and varying strengths of novocaine combined with nerve pain issues, as well as allergies to other ingredients used.....that it became the real nightmare.  It does seem that's how it goes.  It's either not a problem for some, but a nightmare for others. 

And, I somehow talked myself out of the rewatch today, tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow and all that, and it is another day.   To suffer, or not to suffer it again, that is the question?  LOL 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

2 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

I know how you feel.
Rewatching a new episode of GoT once, maybe twice or even three times (and rewatching favorite scenes from said episode several times) before the next one airs is something I've done and enjoyed ever since I began watching this show.

I have yet to rewatch episode 4 and ...I just can't bear myself to do it.
It would feel like some sort of self-flagellation...

I miss wanting to watch it.  I remember not being able to stop a season 1 or 2 marathon once I got started.  It's been awhile since that, but still, even if after season 4 rewatching wasn't as automatic, there'd be things I'd want to see.  So I could at least think about giving it a try, maybe just certain scenes, if not a whole episode.  Now it's a chore I have to talk myself into, and I'm not very successful at convincing myself, LOL 

[Sir Hedge of Hog]

2 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

I know how you feel.
Rewatching a new episode of GoT once, maybe twice or even three times (and rewatching favorite scenes from said episode several times) before the next one airs is something I've done and enjoyed ever since I began watching this show.

I have yet to rewatch episode 4 and ...I just can't bear myself to do it.
It would feel like some sort of self-flagellation...

ditto I cant rewatch it either !

[Dragonslack]

"She forgot about the fleet" lol, my two dragons will escort the fleet.

 

People say that at reddit it's all praise, but nope. not this time.

Somebody did the math on those ballistae, and it's like 2 full rockets to the moon each shot, hahaha.

Let us forget about the stupid maneirisms and cartoony evil goofy faces of Euron.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

On 5/6/2019 at 5:15 AM, Corvinus said:

• And the ruination of Jon Snow and Jaime Lannister is now complete.
• Fuck you, Jon Snow, for not giving two shits about Ghost. All bleeding, ear torn off, the pup you saved, you held in your arms. Fuck you, I hope you die. Oh, you have a dragon now! Ha, not anymore, you wanker.
• Hey Jon, hey Jon, when Sam told you why Ned did what he did, to protect you, were you paying attention? Because you’re so dead set on putting targets on your loved ones’ backs with your sense of what? Honor? Duty?
• I guess a new tradition has started in the North, burning your dead. Psychologically, it makes sense given the crypts. (And creatively, of course) But you know, I can't help to think that if you had so much wood for burning all those dead, maybe you could have used said wood to better prepare your defenses? Maybe fewer dead, then? And what happened to the trench?
• Hey who rules Storm’s End? Anyone? No one knows? Varys? Bueller? Bueller? No, you don’t know, the great spymaster and you don’t know. But you know there’s a new Prince of Dorne! Halleluiah, there are still people in other parts of Westeros. Who is it? Varys? We aren’t going to speak of this again, are we?
• The inn scene with Bronn felt like a Tarantino movie, except these characters have layers and layers of plot armor on them.
• How the fuck does Dany still have an army? Apparently, half of each individual force survived. Even the Dothraki? Hooooow?  Also, the entire castle got overrun, but funnily enough that room with the battle map was left undisturbed, to allow for a little dramatic visual moment.
• Also, funny how the intro showed a completely fucked up great hall in Winterfell, but then the episode gave us a nice little feast in said hall.
• When a spymaster with vast experience in eavesdropping starts talking shouting treason, you know he’s just given up on wanting to live.
• So, in the books Meraxes was killed by a lucky scorpion bolt that pierced its eye. In the show, such a bolt is pretty much the equivalent of a magical ice spear, and Cersei has loads of them. Logically, Dany’s side is fucked – one dragon, that can be easily taken down, a depleted and exhausted army, a commander who everyone says how great he is, but in reality is a moron, a Hand who is completely out of ideas and is quickly becoming an alcoholic, and a spymaster who has turned against her.
• Why is Cersei even willing to have that parley? She should have killed Tyrion, there and then. But plot armor repels a thousand arrows.
• I wonder how the writers will contrive to have Cersei lose. It’s rhetorical, because the baddest motherfucking team up in history, stars of one of the secret 5 spinoff shows, no doubt, is coming to take care of some unfinished buzzinuss. Arya and The Hound!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They ride, they grunt, they don’t say very much, and they will kill every chicken, ice demon, and loud-mouthed turd they can find.
• If Helm’s Deep served as an inspiration for the Long Night battle, did the meeting at the Black Gate with the Mouth of Sauron serve as inspiration for that ridiculous parley? It sure felt that way.
• And seriously, with Euron pretty much controlling the waters, how did they even get at the gates of KL? Did they manufacture copies of Littlefinger’s jetpack?
• Dragonstone, the eternally abandoned fortress; it’s like the Ghost of castles. Why even go there? What fucking strategic purpose could it have served at this point? Hey Dany, did you not spot Euron’s fleet? Big ships with black sails, and great golden krakens on them. No? Were you still thinking about Sansa’s dirty looks, and Jon being a fuckhead?
• Turns out Jaime wouldn’t have stood a chance against Bronn even in his prime, because creatively it makes sense to say dumb shit like that. I really don’t have much else to say about him. I’m sure he’ll still end up killing Cersei (unless Arya, of course), and all this was more pointless drama.
• At what point will Cersei actually start looking pregnant?

 

agreed 100%

[Ghostlydragon]

15 minutes ago, Dragonslack said:

"She forgot about the fleet" lol, my two dragons will escort the fleet.

 

People say that at reddit it's all praise, but nope. not this time.

Somebody did the math on those ballistae, and it's like 2 full rockets to the moon each shot, hahaha.

Let us forget about the stupid maneirisms and cartoony evil goofy faces of Euron.

The goofy Euron who didn't wonder how the hell Tyrion could know Cersei is pregnant. Seriously wtf. He better do something logical next week. Like imprison cersei as his sex slave and have the golden company let whatever Lannister men left know who is really in charge.

But wait a minute that is way too logical and obvious for what the show has become.

[BlackLightning]

So, this episode is definitively worse when you rewatch it and/or even binge-watch the previous episodes before re-watching it.

Sansa's attitude towards Daenerys seems to be operating under the assumption that ultra-bitch, extra sly Cersei and Euron's super-navy can't and won't launch an invasion of the North.

And Jon's political ineptitude and inability to keep a secret disqualifies from being a good king.

[Nightwish]

7 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

 

And Jon's political ineptitude and inability to keep a secret disqualifies from being a good king.

Jon can not sense and understand the balances under his noise. Actually "you know nothing Jon Snow". They can say if you can't rule your house, you can't rule anything. This is Jon's case. 

[dannyk65]

45 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

So, this episode is definitively worse when you rewatch it and/or even binge-watch the previous episodes before re-watching it.

Sansa's attitude towards Daenerys seems to be operating under the assumption that ultra-bitch, extra sly Cersei and Euron's super-navy can't and won't launch an invasion of the North.

 

It's like Sandra has zero clue that as soon as Dany potentially gets covered in Euron, they'll give him a bunch of water and march north to cover Sandra in Euron.

The most basic of strategy games are predicated on stuff like this - I guess D&D weren't into games as kids. 

[kissdbyfire]

5 hours ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Honestly, it can't be JUST all the previous access that Hibberd was given for these continual ass kissing reviews.  It;s either the cold hard cash or he's bogarting the good stuff.  One or the other. 

Aren’t HBO and EWwwww owned by the same company? That could explain some of the incomprehensible brown-nosing.

[kissdbyfire]

2 hours ago, divica said:

I think grrm never thought he wouldn t have finished winds before the show caught up.

I think he knew it was a possibility, but didn’t really think it would happen. There’s also the fact that, from old-ish interviews (3-4yrs?) w/ both Martin and the Ds, at some point all of them were thinking the show would run for more seasons. I recall reading, again from both the Ds and Martin, that the idea at one point was to have either 1 series for Feast and one for Dance, or even 3 for the two. I know a lot of people don’t like the two last books (I do, btw, very much), but that’s a different story. But it does seem Martin was working under the assumption that something like this was going to happen. W/ two or three extra series, it’s possible the show would only have caught up after the release of TWoW. Which would mean the hackery of the Ds wouldn’t have been so obviously painful, as they would have had much more detailed material to use.

The other thing here is, we don’t know what types of conversations the Ds had w/ Martin regarding anything. We in fact know very little of what really went down at any given point in the last 12 yrs or so. So it’s very hard to judge, because we simply don’t know the details, or even the broad strokes tbh. 

As to Martin closing the deal before he had more of the story published/ready... well, I’m sure the money was nice. He said so himself. But I don’t really think that was his primary motivation, but more the cherry on top. And isn’t that what every artist aspires to, to have their work viewed and hopefully appreciated by as many people as possible? And let’s not forget he had turned down previous offers. I’m sure the Ds can be very charming, and that must have played a part as well. They probably also had very insightful things to say during that lunch that turned into dinner, where Martin asked them about Jon Snow’s parentage or who his mum was (don’t remember which). I’m now also pretty certain they were able to make insightful comments because of everything they’d read here on the forum.

 

[BlackLightning]

https://twitter.com/iironicaa/status/1125220371400155136

[Forlong the Fat]

4 hours ago, Dragonslack said:

"She forgot about the fleet" lol, my two dragons will escort the fleet.

 

People say that at reddit it's all praise, but nope. not this time.

Somebody did the math on those ballistae, and it's like 2 full rockets to the moon each shot, hahaha.

Let us forget about the stupid maneirisms and cartoony evil goofy faces of Euron.

Did Hodor do that math?

Hodor + Hodor = moonshot

[The Hunter]

Sorry - never posted much here, but need to get this out there....it should no longer 'jumped the shark' (who really remembers that episode anyway?)   The new phrase should be 'Shot the Dragon'  Join me in updating the poor writing lexicon!

[MinscS2]

New rant incoming, this time about Daenerys' current path into darkness.
In 3....2....1.

I think ultimately, my issue with the path Daenerys currently on isn't so much the prospect of her dying in general, but how she dies. 

I've always wanted her to survive the story. Not necessarily end up on the IT, but at least survive. A part of me however has always believed that she won't survive, and ultimately, that's fine, as long as her death (like Jorah's) concludes her arc and long journey in a meaningful, satisfying way:

- She dies a hero, fighting the Night King, either by going out in a literal blaze of glory that ultimately allowed the forces of life to beat him back, or as Nissa Nissa, a necessary sacrifice in order to defeat him forever.
- She dies in childbirth (I've always hated the idea, but given what we're heading towards, this would've been so much better) after all the wars are concluded and won. Her legacy (and house) lives on in her newborn child, who will never meet his/her mother, but at least gets to live in the new better world she helped creating.
- She dies heroically while saving Jon, the "real heir", who will continue their legacy and house after she's gone.

Basically, these endings for her would result in her being a major part of building that new better world that so often has been mentioned. ("Together, we will leave this world a better place than we found it")
Ultimately however, she never gets to be a part of this new world herself. She ushered it in, died a hero's death, and will always be remembered in the songs and legends for it. Bittersweet and a satisfying conclusion to her story, as she had an impact on the story as a whole - she made a difference.

What we're currently seeing unfold however, is the polar opposite of this. 
She's not dying a hero, nor in childbirth, nor to save someone important, nor will she leave the world a better place than she found it. (Well, technically she will, but she won't get credited for it. Both characters and fans are already downplaying her role in the War for the Dawn.)

If her ultimate endgame is to turn into Viserys/Cersei 2.0 (really badly portrayed on the show, but ultimately not entirely unbelievable - if the story hadn't been so rushed and if it was better written - like it will be in the books presumably) and become the very thing she has spent her entire arc fighting, without really changing anything for the better, and instead just "being more of the same", then...what's the point of it to begin with?

What was the point of all of her suffering and pain, everything she's endured and fought for, if there's no proper conclusion after 8 seasons?
- What's the point of seeing her raped and suffer at the hands of Drogo, before ultimately succumbing to Stockholm's Syndrome? 
- What's the point of her being abused at the hands of her brother, if she's ultimately fated to become like him anyway?
- What's the point of her being immune to fire and birthing three dragons, if they are not important to the story?
- What's the point of her long, arduous journey in Essos, if it's all for naught in the end? 
- What's the point of her being acutely aware of her fathers and brothers Targaryen madness, if she's ultimately succumbing to it anyway?
- What's the point of her having a romance with Jon after they've already established that they would become allies and fight the NK together? 
- What's the point of all the hints, prophecies/visions and foreshadowing about her becoming pregnant (with Jon), when they evidently scrapped that storyline? 

She's one of the main characters in both the books and the show, but if we can ultimately remove everything related to her from the entire story, without there being any sort major change to the story, (and currently it looks that way), then really - what was the point?
- Slavery isn't entirely abolished among the (former?) Slave-Cities, so it will return given time, because Volantis is till a thing.
- The NK would still be alive, but also banished north of the wall (for all time?) because he would have no dragon to break it down with.
- Cersei (and Euron) would be dethroned due to being hated tyrants, given enough time anyway.
- The rest of the story would unfold more or less exactly the same, with the same characters doing the same things, because Daenerys had no impact on their stories due to only starting to affect Westeros in mid season 7. (Tyrion is the lone exception here and...well, we can all probably agree that he's been pretty pointless since S5 and onward anyway.)

Ultimately, the only major(ish) thing that will change if we remove her from the story, is that the Dothraki would still be around pillaging and looting, and the Unsullied would've been sold to someone else...yay?

If the moral of her story ultimately boils down to "power corrupts" and/or "good conquerors doesn't equal good rulers", then that is hands down the lamest, most disappointing and underwhelming conclusion to any character I've ever come across in any piece of fiction ever...
Even Ned's, Robb's and Cat's (early) death's had more of a moral lesson to be taught, and bigger impacts to the show, given how their deaths accelerated the plot and led to a very noticeable cause-and-effect.

If Daenerys ends up dying a villain without there being any major payoff to her story arc, then quite frankly the re-watch value for GoT will have hit absolute zero for me. I wouldn't be able to re-watch the show, because every time one of her earlier scenes (specifically one in which she suffers) would start to play, I would start feeling depressed, knowing what it would ultimately conclude in anyway...

Rant over, thanks for reading. 
 

[athmystikal]

I always expected Dany to rule the East and Jon or his heir rule Westeros in case of a happy ending. Based on the events in the books, it one could argue that Dany deserves to rule the East as she liberated the people and sufferred to a certain extent for them. Same can be said for Jon who went through similar situations in the West.

I never found Dany suitable to rule the West (not for the reasons in the Show), and not entirely because of her faults or shortcomings, but due to her not really knowing the continent or its people. The people of Westeros are more likely to accept one of their own than a foreigner.

I always sensed a bit of madness in Dany. She wants to be good and benevolent but she does not seem to posses the level of patience required for that. But in the show they are turning Dany into the Mad Queen for the wrong reasons. I do not see why Sansa or the Northern Folk hate Dany yet. So far she has only helped them, but in the future they could hate her due to her political views, but not just yet. I mean when Stannis came to the Night's Watch's aid, the northerners were rather welcoming (at least better than what Dany is facing), even though he came with a new religion.

Dany was not one of my favorites even in the books. But I do feel bad for her in the show these last couple of episodes because she is facing hostility for no reason

 

[Grumpywolf]

I have been mostly indifferent towards the show (after season 4) but these last 2 episodes have really bothered me and now I feel the need
to rant.

-I can't stand Arya's character, I don't believe in any of her skills and her face is so annoying to look at. At least her scene with Gendry was in character.

- Sansa's mistrust for Dany is not believable and everything related to this Jon/Dany conflict feels so forced.

- The feast came of as a highschool prom night and I disliked the Jaime/Brienne/Tyrion scene and what happened after. I don't see Jaime and Brienne like that and it was made even worse after Jaime's decision to leave. They destroyed jaime's character yet again.

-Ghost.... So much lost potential... Like D&D don't even try or care. The budget excuse doesn't stick anymore. Not long ago I read another fantasy series that have this special bond between wolf and man and looking at what they have done here it's just heartbreaking.

- All the forces down by half? Half?? What??? How?? BS.

- I'm not sure if I missed something but why did they divide their forces like that? They should all go on foot, stay together, avoid ambushes, take their time to make plans, get more allies, etc. But no, we get yet another forced plot contrivance where our characters know Euron controls the sea yet they think it's a good idea to sail to dragon stone (of all places). Yea I know Dany has dragons but she was ambushed before(?) if I remember correctly?

- You know what's worse? Cersei not winning this war this episode, multiple times! So they prepare this sea ambush that kills a dragon and I imagine alot of men. Considering all this preparation she must know the dragons were coming by sea with half(?) their forces, then why didn't she prepare an ambush on Jon and his men? You know where he is going, his people are tired, NO DRAGONS, they have inferior numbers, she doesn't even have to commit all of her army just get them by surprise and weaken Jon's army. Since you mounted those ballistas on boats, surely
you can mount them somewhere for an ambush on Jon. Can you even imagine that? War won.

- The dragon kill... Stupid, forced and I will leave at that.

- The parley ugh... Everything forced and out of place so Dany can see Missandei die. Why didn't Cersei order those ballistas to fire? Why is Dany and her men so close to the walls? Why is Tyrion forgetting who Cersei is? Why is Cersei forgetting her hate for Tyrion? (she just sent Bronn to murder him!). Why did Cersei think it's a good idea to kill Missandei? So let me get this, she doesn't want the dragon to attack, (that's the strongest tool your enemy has to win this war) so let's kill someone close to Dany to piss her off and force her to use the dragon, instead of keeping Missandei as a hostage (adding to the people of King's Landing) so Dany doesn't use the dragon. 

There's alot more stuff to rant about but this is good for now.
 

[Rory Snow]

On 5/8/2019 at 9:24 PM, Dragon Seed said:

I haven't posted in this forum in years (although I do come in and read) and I'm so fucking pissed off that I just have to say a few things. Dire Wolves... The stark sigil, they're on their shields, their banners, we've been brainwashed about the unbreakable bonding between each Stark and their wolf. Fuck it! It was a lie.

The Nights King and his army of the dead. Fuck them, they mean nothing. Just a fairy tale told by old Nan.

R'holler.. "The night is dark and full of terror" Yea, Ok, whatever.

Valonquar , Who?

Dragons... wimps

What is Jon Snow's purpose? Ditto for Bran, Night King, Araya, Dire Wolves, etc. 

Everyone is bashing the D's and rightly so. But lets not omit the worst butcher of them all... George RR Martin! It was you George who went for the big pay day and allowed these two fuck wads to totally destroy you books. It was you who didn't have a clause in the contract to nix their buffoonery writing. It was you who left your loyal readers waiting and waiting for years for you to finish the next book only to move on to a ton of other projects while we, the fans who have always been there for you, throwing our time and money to you with the expectation that you would continue writing and finish the next book get screwed. Fuck you George! Unfortunately you don't understand the contract you have with your fans/ex fans. Here's how it works. You write a book that attracts our interest and we buy it and patiently wait for the next book in the series. We wait for years for you to finish your work and don't complain because you have us hooked and your a fantastic writer and we understand that quality takes time. You put the second book out and we throw our money at you and eagerly await the next book in the series. You throw in other books like the Dunk and Egg short stories and the Princes and the Queen story and we throw more money and time at you because it's good writing and it's relevant to ASOIAF. But along the way your writing becomes so popular that you get an offer to sell out to HBO and finally get to cash in. We all said "good for George, he deserves to make some money from his years of work". But you then break the contract you have with your loyal fans and let two hacks destroy your story. You let two hacks run roughshod over your loyal fan base. You sold your story telling skills and abilities to corporate America and told your fans... the very people who supported you when you were just another run of the mill writer to FUCK OFF! Well George, Fuck you and your HBO millions, Fuck you and your Winds of Winter book that you have been promising us for years. I hope you fucking die and your lasting legacy is the hack job and destruction of your books that you allowed D&D to shove up our asses.

Fuck You George RR Martin! I won't be throwing anymore of my hard earned money or time your way.

What a fucking dick you turned out to be! 

My thoughts exactly. It's like when a sports team goes bad, Who do you blame for the team's failure? Is it the guys who try real hard but are less talented so they fail? Or do you blame the ultra talented perennial all star who just gives up and stop making an effort. All criticism of D&D has to start with the failure of Martin to finish his damn story.

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Rory Snow said:

My thoughts exactly. It's like when a sports team goes bad, Who do you blame for the team's failure? Is it the guys who try real hard but are less talented so they fail? Or do you blame the ultra talented perennial all star who just gives up and stop making an effort. All criticism of D&D has to start with the failure of Martin to finish his damn story.

There is zero evidence that the Ds "tried really hard". They're both talentless and lazy and in a hurry to finish, and it shows. 

[Relic]

2 hours ago, Rory Snow said:

All criticism of D&D has to start with the failure of Martin to finish his damn story.

total and utter bullshit.