Jump to content
Tyrion1991

Is Young Griffs invasion filler?

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Amris said:

Thank you for this post! Now you have been making me think:

- Who's advice was it that started Young Griff's premature invasion and the war in the south? Tyrion's.

Oh, yea, and he'll also be the one to sow doubts about Aegon's authenticity in Dany's mind, I bet, since he already entertains them himself. And he'll push her to move on Westeros ASAP. The way I see it, he looks to become in great part responsible for the second Dance. The gold of Casterly Rock _is_ going to continue to be poison, it seems. Old Valyrians were wise to avoid the West like a plague.

 

3 hours ago, Karneol said:

Did anybody believe his "for the realm besides the show? Varys is one of the most selfish and mysterious characters

Complete sham. Varys had a hand in all of the major bloodletting that happened during his tenure in Westeros, bar Greyjoy's Rebellion. He worsened Aerys's paranoia, faned his distrust in Rhaegar, prevented Rhaegar from curbing Aerys's power once the king's madness became too pronounced to ignore and Tywin resigned as Hand, more than likely facilitated or not stopped Cersei's tryst with Jaime when she convinced her brother to join KG, let the twins lay the ticking bomb of incestous adultery under Baratheon succession, helped sick Lannisters and Starks at each other, etc., etc.

I wonder what his motive was before he had FAegon - did he and Illyrio have a different pretender in reserve during Robert's Rebellion, but were for some reason unable to deploy him? Revenge, if he is a Blackfyre himself?

 

3 hours ago, Karneol said:

 

I'm supporting this theory about Varys &  Illyrio pushing Viserys:

Viserys conquers Westeros and becomes Viserys III. He will be as mad and cruel as his father. Suddenly the young, beutiful and likeable son of the beloved Rhaegar appears.

Nah, Viserys didn't have it in him to win, even briefly. Certainly not with savage, foreign Dothraki as his army. He was just supposed to soften whoever was not yet sufficiently weakened by the Stark - Lannister conflict, so that they wouldn't have heart to fight FAegon, as well as make the brave young prince with his largely Westerosi-style Golden Company shine all the brighter by comparison. IMHO, YMMV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, John Doe said:

They won't.

This idea of mine is much older than the present show nonsense. It has nothing to do with that. Not to mention that Cersei-Euron was never 'shocking' to anyone ;-).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Maia said:

Oh, yea, and he'll also be the one to sow doubts about Aegon's authenticity in Dany's mind, I bet, since he already entertains them himself. And he'll push her to move on Westeros ASAP. The way I see it, he looks to become in great part responsible for the second Dance. The gold of Casterly Rock _is_ going to continue to be poison, it seems. Old Valyrians were wise to avoid the West like a plague.

For that we really have to wait and see when exactly Dany and Tyrion meet and under what circumstances. That's completely unclear at this point, and not exactly going to happen soon in TWoW. George once said they their paths would cross 'eventually'.

Should Dany by then have the allegiance of all the Dothraki this would come with a much larger responsibility than Westeros. Not to mention that she first has to finish that slavery business. With that power Aegon can be her nephew or fake all day long - even if he were to win the allegiance of all of Westeros he could never stand against her. He has no dragons and he doesn't have all the Dothraki or Dany's other allies.

There won't be a need to rush anything. And by the time Dany starts to look west the news that Aegon sits the Iron Throne already should have already reached her.

2 hours ago, Maia said:

I wonder what his motive was before he had FAegon - did he and Illyrio have a different pretender in reserve during Robert's Rebellion, but were for some reason unable to deploy him? Revenge, if he is a Blackfyre himself?

That is at present unclear. The Aegon plan definitely only grew out of the end of the Rebellion. But we really have to wait and see how destructive a force Varys was in the last years of Aerys II's reign. I'm not sure prophecy-obsessed Rhaegar would have been that great an alternative to the Mad King. Rhaegar lighted the fire that caused the Rebellion, Varys may or may not have fanned it. The way Yandel tells the story strongly implies that the entire court may have mistakenly believed that Rhaegar conspired with the Starks against the king. Did Varys fuel that mistrust or did he defend Rhaegar? We don't know at that point. Varys definitely advised Aerys II not to open the gates - which is odd if he indeed wanted to destroy the Targaryen dynasty.

And, quite frankly - chances are not exactly low that the Mad King was indeed surrounded by conspirators and people who tried to exploit Mad Aerys for their own personal gain. Pointing out such people wouldn't have been inherently problematic. Also, if Varys came up with the idea to rid the court of Tywin in a bloodless way then this may also have been positive thing. Tywin was ruthlessly pursuing his own ambition at court, trying to make Cersei either Rhaegar's second wife or Viserys' wife.

But, sure, Varys may have had merely a revenge agenda if he has ties to the Blackfyres. However, the Aegon plan as such is, I think, genuine. He wants to create a great king and lasting stability for the people, not just play some boring revenge game.

2 hours ago, Maia said:

Nah, Viserys didn't have it in him to win, even briefly. Certainly not with savage, foreign Dothraki as his army. He was just supposed to soften whoever was not yet sufficiently weakened by the Stark - Lannister conflict, so that they wouldn't have heart to fight FAegon, as well as make the brave young prince with his largely Westerosi-style Golden Company shine all the brighter by comparison. IMHO, YMMV.

Well, what the Golden Company tells us implies that they were supposed to ride alongside King Viserys III and Khal Drogo and his screamers. That's what they say. The plan was that the Golden Company join Viserys III and the Dothraki, not Connington's prince. Or rather: We have no clue at this point when exactly Aegon and Connington were supposed to go to Westeros in the original plan. But they could only have gone with the Golden Company if they had also joined Viserys III and the Dothraki, and then Aegon would have been as tainted or nearly as tainted by whatever Viserys III and the Dothraki did.

This is a rather vexing conundrum which actually implies that Varys and Illyrio actually planned for Viserys III to take the Iron Throne with the help of the Dothraki and whatever Targaryen loyalists there were in Westeros. After that, they likely planned some sort of bloodless power transfer from Viserys III to Aegon, but how exactly that was supposed to go is completely unclear at this point.

The best guess would be that Viserys III would have acknowledged Aegon as his brother's son and anointed him the presumptive heir while he had no children of his own - and then the man would have suddenly died. However, how Aegon could have possibly dealt with the Dothraki and the fact that they would have made House Targaryen not exactly popular in Westeros is completely unclear at this point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, John Doe said:
On 5/6/2019 at 4:12 PM, Lord Varys said:

Cersei and Euron will hook up in the books eventually 

They won't.

I think that they will. Based on The Forsaken chapter from TWOW.

Spoiler

The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood­-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed...

Euron is on Iron Throne. Except him in that room there's four other people - male dwarf, female dwarf, Euron's mate, and a shadow in a woman's form - Tyrion, Penny, Cersei, and Quaithe/Shiera Seastar/the Three-Eyed Crow (Euron's ex-teacher, that's why his nickname is the Crow's Eye).

Besides pleasing Cersei, there's no reason for Euron to torture dwarfs, so most likely, those two dwarfs is Tyrion and Penny, and Euron captured them to give them as a present to Cersei, who became his mate, in exchange of his help against her enemies.

So the possibility that Euron and Cersei will eventually hook up, is not based on that other media, it is based on spoiler-chapter from the upcoming book.

3 hours ago, Maia said:

I wonder what his motive was before he had FAegon - did he and Illyrio have a different pretender in reserve during Robert's Rebellion, but were for some reason unable to deploy him? Revenge, if he is a Blackfyre himself?

It's just a theory, not facts -

I think that, maybe, Varys and his sister Serra (Illyrio's wife) were Blackfyres. So Varys came to Westeros in 278, because he was planning that eventually Serra's and Illyrio's child will rule over 7K. But because Serra died, and they had no children before that, their original plan was cancelled. They had to wait for another child with Blackfyre blood.

I think that Barristan Selmy is grandson of Aenys Blackfyre, and that Barristan and Septa Lemore (whose real identity could be Lady Jeyne Swann) are fAegon's parents. It's possible that when Kingswood Brotherhood attacked Lady Jeyne, it was actually a trap, that was set up for Jeyne to seduce Barristan, to have his child (because of Barristan's Blackfyre dragonblood). And the septa, that was escorting Lady Jeyne, was actually Shiera Seastar (shadowbinder Quaithe) in shadow-glamour (same as Bloodraven/Maynard Plumm had used in The Mystery Knight novel). They gave to Barristan a love potion. Same thing possibly had happened to Robb Stark, when Jeyne Westerling seduced him with help of Sybell Spicer, who prepared for her a love potion. In The Sworn Sword novel GRRM gave a hint, that Shiera Seastar was making love potions, and that she was a shadowbinder, and a user of blood magic. And presence of Simon Toyne (who possibly was brother of Myles Toyne, who at that time was captain-general of Golden Company) amongst members of Kingswood Brotherhood is a clue that connects together, what was happening that night in Kingswood with Varys (if Varys is a Blackfyre). And the Swann girl was chosen as a mother for the future Blackfyre-King, because it's likely, that House Swann are ancestors of House Blackfyre. I think that Johanna Swann, the Black Swan of Lys, was mother of Larra Rogare. Based on information, given in Fire & Blood, it seems that Larra was a sorceress and a shadowbinder. So my guess is that Serenei of Lys, mother of Shiera Seastar, and last mistress of Aegon IV, was actually Larra Rogare in shadow-glamour, so Shiera is a product of incest between mother and son. And all Blackfyres are descendants of House Swann, thru Johanna Swann and Larra Rogare.

My theory is that in 281 AC Shiera Seastar sided with Varys, and they made a plan, how to get them a dragonseed-baby with blood of Blackfyres. And that baby was conceived by Barristan (grandson of Aenys Blackfyre) and Jeyne Swann (bloodrelated to Blackfyres thru Johanna Swann), on the same night, when "Aegon's comet" was passing above King's Landing. Shiera knew about the Promised Prince prophecy, so by orchestrating events in a way, that the Blackfyre-baby was conceived on the night of that comet, was supposed to ensure, that this child will be the Promised Prince, and eventually will become King of 7K. Though Shiera had no idea, that at that same time in King's Landing was conceived Rhaegar's Aegon, which made Rhaegar to think, that his son is the Promised Prince. Though some time later, Shiera realised, that that comet was a wrong comet, and that the real Promised Prince is Jon, born under the bleeding stars at Starfall. And she figured out that there should be three Messiahs not one, and that those three are Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen, and Rhaego son of Drogo. So that's why she is helping Dany, and why Varys' plan and fAegon are doomed. Just a theory.

Edited by Megorova

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I could see him and Arianne getting married, at Storm's End, and Euron bringing the place down like in the story of the storm gods, and him surviving thanks to her. Could be a nice way for Euron to woo Dany or Cersei, depending on how either react to Aegon. It could push Aegon north, where he could meet Sansa, especially if she has reclaimed Winterfell's seat.

Ultimately I think he would win the throne with Sansa, and Jon lives on remembered as a bastard in exile or at the NW, especially if it turns out Aegon is fake, I think it would compound this nicely.

Edited by NonoNono

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why Aerys II trusted Varys enough to hire him? After all I am certain that he would not have hired a Blackfyre :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Maia said:

 

I wonder what his motive was before he had FAegon - did he and Illyrio have a different pretender in reserve during Robert's Rebellion, but were for some reason unable to deploy him? Revenge, if he is a Blackfyre himself?

 

That’s my whole issue with the Blackfyre theory, they didn’t have a claimant when Varys came to KL so there was no reason for him to make Aerys paranoid or anything of the sort. I think he was simply doing his job.

On a re-read I came to the conclusion that Aegon is real. If you read the part where Varys killed Pycelle, the way he killed is very reminiscent of Aegon’s death and a very personal way to kill him. The only motivation I could think of that Varys would hate Pycelle that much is because Varys was trying to not open the gates but Pycelle vouched for Tywin causing Rhaenys and Elia’s deaths. That to me is Varys’ motivation, to have have revenge for those children.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Karneol said:

Did anybody believe his "for the realm besides the show? Varys is one of the most selfish and mysterious characters

 

Littlefinger meets Aegon. This is going to be interesting. Littlefinger will not be against him in the beginning: Aegon has a to high chance of winning and LF tries to keep himself all options. But Varys will definatly play Aegon against him.

 

I'm supporting this theory about Varys &  Illyrio pushing Viserys:

Viserys conquers Westeros and becomes Viserys III. He will be as mad and cruel as his father. Suddenly the young, beutiful and likeable son of the beloved Rhaegar appears.

If you are a peasant who would you fight for: A mad usurper and his forgein wildlings or the rightful heir and a army with Westerosi roots?

Aegon would just be another rung in Littlefinger's ladder.

He'd step on him, propel himself up to the next level and just as easily dispose of and forget Aegon. I'm sure Varys will play Littlefinger against Aegon; Varys is not the forgetful or forgiving type....while Littlefinger is very good at concealing his motives and his endgame goal, he's not that good and his ambitions are painfully apparent enough. Varys can react accordingly.

Which makes sense why Littlefinger is, more than likely, going to position himself in Winterfell and use everyone there (Valemen, Northmen, Jon, Sansa, Lord Arryn, wildlings) as a human shield.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

long ago it was apparent that there was some inconsistency to be resolved between the notion that Varys and Illyrio had been behind Dany getting married off to Khal Drogo so he would support Viserys in invading Westeros, and the fact that Varys was also behind the long-term grooming of Aegon.

my resolution was that Aegon was always the real candidate Varys was behind, and the plan was to either: (a) have Viserys and the Dothraki invade first, to (1) soften up Westeros for Aegon by depleting westerosi armies; (2) discredit Viserys, who Varys has already realized has no business being king; (3) set Aegon up to ride in as the savior hero, who can rally the (presumably, at that point) beleaguered westerosi lords and people to his cause. Or, (b) in the alternative, Viserys would fail to get the Dothraki behind him and end up getting himself killed or get lost with the Dothraki in the great grass sea, and thus out of the way. Either helps Aegon.

this plan went down the tubes due to Dany's unexpected survival and success with the Dothraki, the genuine love of Khal Drogo for Dany, Viserys antagonizing Drogo enough to get himself killed, and finally Drogo's death, Dany's survival and the birth of the dragons.

So, the current situation, where there are two (supposedly) legit Targaryen pretenders was unexpected and Varys and Illyrio are playing it by ear, improvising, doing their best, but they have largely lost control over the situation, mostly due to Dany's actions after the birth of the dragons, culminating on the conquest of slavers bay, emancipation of slaves, etc., and now, secondarily, because Aegon has decided to say screw you guys Im not waiting for Dany any longer I'm going home. to westeros.

I think all of this was unanticipated by Varys and Illyrio.

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Brother Seamus said:

long ago it was apparent that there was some inconsistency to be resolved between the notion that Varys and Illyrio had been behind Dany getting married off to Khal Drogo so he would support Viserys in invading Westeros, and the fact that Varys was also behind the long-term grooming of Aegon.

my resolution was that Aegon was always the real candidate Varys was behind, and the plan was to either: (a) have Viserys and the Dothraki invade first, to (1) soften up Westeros for Aegon by depleting westerosi armies; (2) discredit Viserys, who Varys has already realized has no business being king; (3) set Aegon up to ride in as the savior hero, who can rally the (presumably, at that point) beleaguered westerosi lords and people to his cause. Or, (b) in the alternative, Viserys would fail to get the Dothraki behind him and end up getting himself killed or get lost with the Dothraki in the great grass sea, and thus out of the way. Either helps Aegon.

this plan went down the tubes due to Dany's unexpected survival and success with the Dothraki, the genuine love of Khal Drogo for Dany, Viserys antagonizing Drogo enough to get himself killed, and finally Drogo's death, Dany's survival and the birth of the dragons.

So, the current situation, where there are two (supposedly) legit Targaryen pretenders was unexpected and Varys and Illyrio are playing it by ear, improvising, doing their best, but they have largely lost control over the situation, mostly due to Dany's actions after the birth of the dragons, culminating on the conquest of slavers bay, emancipation of slaves, etc., and now, secondarily, because Aegon has decided to say screw you guys Im not waiting for Dany any longer I'm going home. to westeros.

I think all of this was unanticipated by Varys and Illyrio.

To be honest, the common denominator here is Daenerys.

It seems like Illyrio and Varys never paid any sort of attention to Daenerys. And now it's biting them in the butt. Because if they had, they would have seen something in her that would blossom 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Jabar of House Titan said:

To be honest, the common denominator here is Daenerys.

It seems like Illyrio and Varys never paid any sort of attention to Daenerys. And now it's biting them in the butt. Because if they had, they would have seen something in her that would blossom 

Exactly. They didn't see Dany coming. never gave her much thought because of her gender. a pawn to be moved around, no will of her own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/6/2019 at 2:36 AM, chrisdaw said:

No. Aegon takes KL and is the dominant power in Westeros when Dany arrives and the second dance is between him and Dany and that was always GRRM's intention.

Fully agree. Aegon's the one who steals her thunder and the character who will not make her arrive in Westeros as saviour, but as a power hungry danger in the eyes of people in Westeros. Aegon's the one they'll cheer and welcome with open arms. And just as the dust settles and peace seems almost within reach, in comes Dany seething over the fact another got there before her, stealing what she believes to be her destiny.

ETA: On top of it, she'll believe he's a fake, because Tyrion will inform her about Young Griff. Tyrion doesn't know it, but Dany will regard this as Illyrio wanting her and Viserys out of the way, to install Aegon on the Iron Throne. Viserys and her had to go through a lot to try and get a Dothraki army, while Aegon gets the GC on a golden platter. Viserys and her had to travel from free city to free city without a real home, while Aegon got an adoptive father and plenty of people to raise and educate him. The dichotomy between their young lives is astounding. And in the midst of those dancing dragons will be a snarling Tyrion, playing the role of a Iago.

Edited by sweetsunray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Fully agree. Aegon's the one who steals her thunder and the character who will not make her arrive in Westeros as saviour, but as a power hungry danger in the eyes of people in Westeros. Aegon's the one they'll cheer and welcome with open arms. And just as the dust settles and peace seems almost within reach, in comes Dany seething over the fact another got there before her, stealing what she believes to be her destiny. 

I think the big question here is euron. What will be his role? 

Because in my head Aegon and jon will divide westeros between them (north, vale and riverlands for jon and dorne, crownlands, stormlands and reach for Aegon) and then Danny arrives in westeros and we have a 3 way war.

Thee big questions are euron and how will danny lose 1 or more dragons in order to give a fighting chance to other people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Young Griff is a major character who may not have a point of view but important all the same.  His arc is very important because he is the one who will exact vengeance for the deaths of Rhaegar, Elia, and Rhaenys.  As long as he believes he's the real deal he will do this.  Westeros hasn't recovered from the rebellion and that is why it's in sad shape at the moment.  

1 hour ago, Brother Seamus said:

Exactly. They didn't see Dany coming. never gave her much thought because of her gender. a pawn to be moved around, no will of her own.

And how wrong they were!  Daenerys carved out her own Queendom in the east and most probably will unite the khalasars into one mighty people.  Empire building at its finest and it won't be built on slavery this time.  I say Dany is the single most important character in this epic tale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, divica said:

I think the big question here is euron. What will be his role? 

Euron isn't much related to Aegon. He will be Dany's mate, until she miscarriages his child, then he will move onto (a widowed) Arianne and use her child as sacrifice to successfully second life Drogon. His soul within Drogon will wrestle control of the dragon from Drogo, and Drogon will become the stone beast that breathes an infectious greyscale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, what the Golden Company tells us implies that they were supposed to ride alongside King Viserys III and Khal Drogo and his screamers. That's what they say. The plan was that the Golden Company join Viserys III and the Dothraki, not Connington's prince. Or rather: We have no clue at this point when exactly Aegon and Connington were supposed to go to Westeros in the original plan. But they could only have gone with the Golden Company if they had also joined Viserys III and the Dothraki, and then Aegon would have been as tainted or nearly as tainted by whatever Viserys III and the Dothraki did.

This is a rather vexing conundrum which actually implies that Varys and Illyrio actually planned for Viserys III to take the Iron Throne with the help of the Dothraki and whatever Targaryen loyalists there were in Westeros. After that, they likely planned some sort of bloodless power transfer from Viserys III to Aegon, but how exactly that was supposed to go is completely unclear at this point.

The best guess would be that Viserys III would have acknowledged Aegon as his brother's son and anointed him the presumptive heir while he had no children of his own - and then the man would have suddenly died. However, how Aegon could have possibly dealt with the Dothraki and the fact that they would have made House Targaryen not exactly popular in Westeros is completely unclear at this point.

What if Viserys was the filler? We see in ADwD how hard they try to hide Aegon. Illyrio and Varys could have used him as a red herring for Robert and his loyalist. While Robert is doing every thing to get rid of the  aparent male heir meanwhile Illyrio could use his name for contracts he is making for Aegon like the GC. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Crona said:

If you read the part where Varys killed Pycelle, the way he killed is very reminiscent of Aegon’s death and a very personal way to kill him. The only motivation I could think of that Varys would hate Pycelle that much is because Varys was trying to not open the gates but Pycelle vouched for Tywin causing Rhaenys and Elia’s deaths. That to me is Varys’ motivation, to have have revenge for those children.

Or Varys killed Pycell, because Pycell knew for sure, that the body of that murdered baby was really Aegon. He was maester of Targaryen family since Aegon V, so it's likely, that if Elia's Aegon had any distinctive features, such as birthmarks or a mole, then Pycell recorded it in his medical diaries (doctors of royal families do stuff like that - they record every little thing about their patients), and would have still had access to this information even many years later, and because fAegon doesn't have that mark, Pycell would have knew, and told to others, that the boy is a fake. So Pycell had to be killed before knews about fAegon, who is claiming that he is Elia's Aegon, would have arrived to KL, because Pycelle was a threat for Varys' plan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given that Varys and Illyrio as characters are entirely there for the fAegon plotline, no. fAegon was planned from AGOT. Arya overhears Varys & Illyrio in the depths of the RK's tunnels network discussing the fact Ned is very close to working out the twincest. And Illyrio suggests repeating what they did with Jon Connington, and bringing Ned in to their scheme. But Varys naysays that idea pointing out Ned is a very different hand. And he is. His loyalties lie not with house Targaryen but with Baratheon. With Robert. Approaching him with a view to converting him to fAegon's claim will not work.

Then again in ACOK we begin seeing foreshadowing for his existence. As well as the foreshadowing for who Varys and Illyrio are and who fAegon really is. This is then backed up in the D&E tales where we learn a little more about Aerion Brightflame, the Blackfyre rebellions etc.  People had apparently been predicting Aegon being alive pre ADWD. but I'm not sure they had grasped that he would be fAegon at that point.

His story is also foretold with Danny's HotU visions; he is the mummers dragon. He is not Aegon VI at all but in fact the son of Illyrio; a Blackfyre on his mothers side, Serra descendent of Aerion Brightflame Targaryen and sister to Varys. This theory has been around a while and I believe originated with a forum user called Veltigar.    It is easy to find via a quick search and is by far the most convincing of the fAegon theories out there. The numerous clues to their heritage come throughout the books and are such things as the colour purple being used in association with them both, Varys's being as bald as an Egg in the exact same description used about Egg in THK. Illyrio's bizarre lack of interest in Westeros being at odds with his desire to seat fAegon on the IT. The Golden Companies involvement. Serra being "found" on Lys - where Aerion was exiled. Varys's strange kindness to a kings bastards and profession to care about the children being restricted to those children begot and abandoned by royals, cos lets face it he ain't caring for his little birds is he. The list is numerous but I'll leave it at that. 

Varys came to KL deliberately to begin undermining Aerys' rule whilst back in Essos Illyrio and Serra were getting busy trying to produce an heir to replace the Targaryen dynasty's current ruling branch.  Tyrion treats us to the information about fAegon being not quite the right age when he guestimates young griff's age for us. That fAegon was born around the same time roughly as Rhaegar & Elia's son is coincidence required for GRRM's plot. But he's made it not quite so implausible by giving the boys age wiggle room. 

I have zero idea as to what the two of them were up to with Viserys and the Dothraki unfortunately though. Sending Dany out with three Targaryen dragon eggs ( as revealed in F&B.) and hoping that somehow the beggar prince and his sister would come back and join the Dothraki to the GC and invade Westeros all seems very un Varys like. Who generally seems to have a better grasp on his pawns. Though of course he is human and fallible as he reminds Illyrio in AGOT. What do you think I am a wizard! But yes overall Varys usually appears to have a better grasp on what he is going to do and how to achieve it. And he includes his pawns in just enough of his plan to move them more efficiently. However the over all plan appears to be Illyrio's with Varys assisting in the westeros branch of that plan. And this over all plan evidently changes. Perhaps as others have suggested the intent was to install Viserys and then quietly kill him off leaving fAegon as his heir.

 

Varys has killed Pycelle who I believe would have knowledge which could expose fAegon, such as a birth mark.  And next to go was Kevan, to destabilise Cersei  further.  I believe the next step will be the killing of Tommen, and that this will come via Tyene Sand who has gone to KL posing as a Septa and who has a knowledge of poisons. This is not my theory but a lovely lass I know on another ASOIAF group who has suggested that Tyene will place a contact poison in the 7 sacred oils used to anoint a new king by the HS. And in the previous books Cersei has repeatedly called for the HS to perform this ceremony for Tommen.  If this killing will happen with the foreknowledge and agreement of Varys is in doubt though as for Dorne to gain the IT all they need do is kill Tommen and make way for Myrcella as Queen with Trystane as her consort.  We know Cersei will support her daughter as Queen despite the unpopularity of the idea of a female ruler in Westeros because she will be her last hope for clinging on to power. 

This buys her a bit more time in the RK and keeps things ticking over nicely for her own prophesy. 

I think then that after Arrianne has thrown in fully with fAegon and got her fathers blessing to do so, that Varys will use the secret tunnels in order to infiltrate Maegors Holdfast in the same way Blood & Cheese did and murder Myrcella in  her bed. Smothered with a silken pillow just as Tywin pretended her had thought Gregor would dispose of Rhaenys. Once Cersei has no children to promote to the IT she will face civil unrest in the capital like we see repeatedly in F&B and be forced to flee back to CR. Whereby fAegon can enter the city lauded and welcomed in a country with seemingly no claimants to oppose him.

This has the added benefit of removing Cersei from KL to be disposed of by whichever younger brother is the one. I flip my mind on who that is regularly. But tend to lean towards Tyrion.  Just because so far everything within the prophesy has been self fulfilling. Turning Tyrion against her resulted in him despising her and wanting to kill her.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Megorova said:

Or Varys killed Pycell, because Pycell knew for sure, that the body of that murdered baby was really Aegon. He was maester of Targaryen family since Aegon V, so it's likely, that if Elia's Aegon had any distinctive features, such as birthmarks or a mole, then Pycell recorded it in his medical diaries (doctors of royal families do stuff like that - they record every little thing about their patients), and would have still had access to this information even many years later, and because fAegon doesn't have that mark, Pycell would have knew, and told to others, that the boy is a fake. So Pycell had to be killed before knews about fAegon, who is claiming that he is Elia's Aegon, would have arrived to KL, because Pycelle was a threat for Varys' plan.

If Varys had no personal hatred towards him he would have used the crossbow instead of a blunt object to smash his head.

Also he killed and used Pycelle to lure Kevan.

Edited by Crona

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There will be a period where fAegon is just in the RK sitting the IT. Whilst Dany is in Mereen/Essos finishing off her business there. This period will probably be taken up with Euron reaving and Cersei either throwing in her lot with him, or sitting tight in CR furious. 

If she is the tall woman with white fire in her hands in Aeron's Shade of the Evening trip then that tells us she does throw in with him. But I'm yet to be convinced this is her. 

GRRM has said that many arses will sit on the IT by the series end. So this would bring us to 6. With Dany ousting him when she arrives after a conflict we shall call the second dance bringing us to 7. Then of course there is Jon whose claim will eventually come out.  we might even get a few chancers taking advantage of the periods between the upcoming monarchs to briefly claim it. But certainly no way is Cersei sitting pretty in the Red Keep for the entire period of time between ADWD and ADOS. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×