House Cambodia Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said: How the Dornish army has fallen? They didn't take part in any battle they should be fresh. Yes, that one line in ep 3 about a new prince in Dorne brings them back into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martianmister Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Arya and Sansa wants her dead so the north can be independent. Bunch of traitors. Varys wants to replace her with Jon so the north can be bought out. Another traitor. I'm not sure about Tyrion. Do he really wants a coup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Loras The Gay Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, martianmister said: Arya and Sansa wants her dead so the north can be independent. Bunch of traitors. Varys wants to replace her with Jon so the north can be bought out. Another traitor. I'm not sure about Tyrion. Do he really wants a coup? Thinking on black and white terms in a fantasy world where most things are grey. Nice, you totally missed the point of the books and show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Cambodia Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, martianmister said: Arya and Sansa wants her dead so the north can be independent. Bunch of traitors. In whose eyes? Daenerys only. They've never recognised her right to rule over Westeros. And what about Cercei - is she a traitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hedge of Hog Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 On 5/6/2019 at 9:57 AM, House Of Wolves said: What I don't understand is how there has yet to be a single character in the show who has discussed the idea of marriage with Jon and Danny. Even though it has made all the rational sense in the world for both of them ,from the second they first met and all the way up to this point in the story. When they first met Jon needed more military power(dragons) to fight the others. While he needs Danny less so now... A lot of his people still have a problem with him bending the knee. Marrying Danny would solve this problem for him and avoid potential future conflicts. While Danny from the start has had little to no support among the people of the seven kingdoms. She also has the issue of being liked by the people. Even now pretty much all the support she has from the people of Westeros is contingent on Job supporting her. Marrying Jon not only makes it easy for the people to accept her it eliminates the chances of the north, Vale and river lands turning on her. It makes all the sense in the world for both of them. All this talk about who is fit and unfit to rule. The fact that not one of Jon or Dannys advisors has yet to bring up the idea of marriage to them, it seems to me we should be talking about how Jon and Danny have a bunch of unfit advisors. Yes, Tyrion at least thinks about it. But he has yet to discuss with either Jon or Danny. Will they necessarily agree to it ? No, but you at least discuss it with them. So lets look at the reason now they say why them getting married wont ever work. Jon might not want to be king? Well if he isn't willing to be king what are we even talking about. He will be unwilling to marry his aunt? well its your job to make him understand that there are bigger things on the line then his morality. If he is unwilling to move past the morality issue when its necessary for peace then he is isn't really king Material right? Also the idea that he cant handle a strong willed women like Danny. So he is supposed to make a good king but he cant handle being married to a strong women? Give me a break.... Then there is Danny's side of if she will be willing to share power? Well, you explain to her why marrying Jon will not only help her secure the throne but allow her to keep it and bring the realm long term stability and peace. If she is unwilling to share any power when it makes all the sense in the world to do so..... well then you have your answer on if she is fit to rule or not. It just really baffles me that no one has at the very least discussed this with Jon or Danny. Although to be fair if either show Jon or Danny were really top quality king or queen material they would have came to the realization of a marriage themselves. Yes it's madness and is just not going to happen. We r going to have a tragedy on our hands...sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hedge of Hog Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 13 hours ago, Gianna Dorenberg said: Let's hope it's just a fake spoiler. But based on the latest episode it's clear Dumb & Dumber are going in that direction. I just hope it's like that Sansa-Arya fight of last year...just fake tension for the sake of fake drama. There are lots of sources on reddit saying jon will kill dany...i so hope this is not the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#teamNightking Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said: There are lots of sources on reddit saying jon will kill dany...i so hope this is not the case I could easily see it going down this way if Daenerys is about to kill Sansa. Or she goes totally crazy. Wouldn't like it. But I can see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martianmister Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said: Thinking on black and white terms in a fantasy world where most things are grey. Nice, you totally missed the point of the books and show. They bend their knee to Jon and Jon bend the knee to Daenerys. Their rule in the north is allowed on condition of their loyalty. 20 minutes ago, House Cambodia said: In whose eyes? Daenerys only. They've never recognised her right to rule over Westeros. And what about Cercei - is she a traitor? In my eyes. And yes, Cersei is clearly a traitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Loras The Gay Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Just now, martianmister said: They bend their knee to Jon and Jon bend the knee to Daenerys. Their rule in the north is allowed on condition of their loyalty No. The north is ruled by northmen. They achieve their independency when they declared Jon as king in the north. KING in the north. KING! Dany comes AFTER they declared jon as king and LITERALLY EVERYONE didn't like when Jon bent his knee to Dany, and THAT IS THE REASON WHY Sansa is plotting to fuck Dany over, because she doesn't CARE about what Jon thinks is better because NORTHMEN wants a independent north. How is this TREASON? TO WHOM? Just to Dany who has literally NO LEGITIMACY she doens't hold the iron throne, she doesn't have a rightful claim (Robert killed every Targaryen and got power for himself) and she isn't a northwoman. So how the fuck Sansa by being loyal to NORTHMEN LIKE SHE'S BEEN BEING FOR 2 SEASONS NOW is TREASON? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the tower of albion Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 15 hours ago, Gianna Dorenberg said: Have you seen the leaked spoiler that's going around ? If it's true, it's going to happen, sadly. Let's just hope by the old Gods and new that this is just some skull fuckery one of the fake endings they filmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martianmister Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said: No. The north is ruled by northmen. They achieve their independency when they declared Jon as king in the north. KING in the north. KING! Dany comes AFTER they declared jon as king and LITERALLY EVERYONE didn't like when Jon bent his knee to Dany, and THAT IS THE REASON WHY Sansa is plotting to fuck Dany over, because she doesn't CARE about what Jon thinks is better because NORTHMEN wants a independent north. How is this TREASON? TO WHOM? Just to Dany who has literally NO LEGITIMACY she doens't hold the iron throne, she doesn't have a rightful claim (Robert killed every Targaryen and got power for himself) and she isn't a northwoman. So how the fuck Sansa by being loyal to NORTHMEN LIKE SHE'S BEEN BEING FOR 2 SEASONS NOW is TREASON? By betraying their southern allies, who saved northerners' asses time and time again. Sansa and her family would be skinned alive without Vale knights. They would be dead without Daenerys' army. Northern independence is a self-destructive fantasy for the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilissa Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 22 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said: He doesn't want her the way he used to anymore. I do not think so. They kissed very passionately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinscS2 Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, the tower of albion said: Let's just hope by the old Gods and new that this is just some skull fuckery one of the fake endings they filmed. This +1. I honestly don't know how anyone can call any end-game leaks real at this point, given that they made several fakeouts. It makes sense for them to film one tragic, one bittersweet, one happy, etc. Since the tragic ending will get the most reactions, it's of course the one who gets "leaked". Regarding Jon and Daenerys, they seemed to genuinely still be in love at the beginning this episode. Daenerys seemed to genuinely want to go back to the way things where between them (which means being a couple), but she's too invested in the IT at this point that she sees his claim as a threat to everything she's fought and suffered over. This all really would be resolved with a marriage, because then his claim means nothing. (And I don't trust Varys words about Daenerys being "too strong" for him. We know from S7 that's not true, and we know that Varys was already planning on betraying her as soon as he realized that Jon was Aegon. Tyrion was the voice of reason here.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 I think in hindsight, Jon bending the knee is an example of "learning how to follow," per Mormont's words. He can let Dany think he's following her but he's clearly the king in that situation. The title is quite meaningless when Jon can accomplish what he needs to without it. However at a certain point the title will be given back to him and he can't keep rejecting it. Dany says as much in this episode, his personal desires dont matter if others will work to put him on the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Loras The Gay Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 26 minutes ago, martianmister said: By betraying their southern allies, who saved northerners' asses time and time again. Sansa and her family would be skinned alive without Vale knights. They would be dead without Daenerys' army. Northern independence is a self-destructive fantasy for the north. Wait, how are they betraying the Vale? Did the Vale asked something for their help? Is Sansa trying to get the Vale for herself? What are you talking about? Dany could simply say "no" to helping them and because of her dragons it could actually be easier to defeat the NK without her. Think about what happened in episode 3. Dothraki got trashed, Insullied got trashed and her dragons were almost useless on the battle, so, in reality being absolutely cold hearted she did more harm than good. Her troops only became more troops to the army of the dead to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 1 hour ago, martianmister said: Arya and Sansa wants her dead so the north can be independent. Bunch of traitors. We have never heard either of the sister wanting Daenerys dead. Arya didn't say anything anyway and Sansa dislikes Daenerys and has her realised to be dangerous and threatening to Northern interests. Sansa doesn't want Daenerys as queen, she wants an independent North. This is straight-forward and Sansa even told Daenerys. So no "behind the back" till there. After that Sansa started conspiring with Tyrion and trying to push Jon into a position to gain the throne. We will see how this will play out. Arya cannot be a traitor because she did promise nothing to Daenerys anyway. 1 hour ago, Ser Loras The Gay said: Thinking on black and white terms in a fantasy world where most things are grey. Nice, you totally missed the point of the books and show. Oh, I like this statement so much. Exactly that is the point. One of the few shows with nuances and complexity and then some starting to paint it all black and white and evil/good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Loras The Gay Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 And I want to restate something. JON promised Daenerys. Not the North. Even being king of the north doesn't make all his orders the wishes of his people. That is often the reason why people rebel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwish Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said: Wait, how are they betraying the Vale? Did the Vale asked something for their help? Is Sansa trying to get the Vale for herself? What are you talking about? Dany could simply say "no" to helping them and because of her dragons it could actually be easier to defeat the NK without her. Think about what happened in episode 3. Dothraki got trashed, Insullied got trashed and her dragons were almost useless on the battle, so, in reality being absolutely cold hearted she did more harm than good. Her troops only became more troops to the army of the dead to use. Dany was a great fool for joining the battle, nevertheless. She should have gone straight to Cersei. Starks (Bran and John) all destroyed her and almost destroyed the North with their ultimate stupidity to fight the Night King, while he was sitting cozy out of the Wall with no means to pass it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wik Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 34 minutes ago, martianmister said: By betraying their southern allies, who saved northerners' asses time and time again. Sansa and her family would be skinned alive without Vale knights. They would be dead without Daenerys' army. Northern independence is a self-destructive fantasy for the north. To be clear, the Vale knights did more for the North. Dany taking her army north for the BoW is fine but lets be real, it isn't like if Westeros ignored the NK and his army and let WF get swallowed they wouldn't have marched south and done the same to every other great house. If it weren't for the Vale, the North would have been swallowed whole by the scum of the North. And the Vale follows Sansa, NOT Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Loras The Gay Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, Wik said: If it weren't for the Vale, the North would have been swallowed whole by the scum of the North. And the Vale follows Sansa, NOT Dany. I really don't understand why though, she has never offered something in return of their work. She should at least promise a marriage between her and rob arryn. They'd be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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