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Tyrion1991

Why are they plotting a coup?

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Maybe a plot convenience, to prepare the terrain for Dany's death. Because if she dies taking King's Landing, the rest will declare for Jon only since there'll be no one else better suited to rule other than any survivers of the team Psychos.

Or, a pretext to another civil war in the last episode, Jon vs. Daenerys. Since, Dany will be the mad queen who burned KL taking it (I don't see how KL won't get burned and sacked in any outcome at this point, I'm 100% sure it's toast) and Jon will be the best man to oppose her, and he has a better claim. Basically, what Varys was saying to Tyrion.

As for Jaime and Cersei. Well, maybe they'll go out in an Antony & Cleopatra style, or, Jaime will kill her and not surviving after. But I'd put my money on them both dying next episode.

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1 hour ago, starklover said:

what leaked spoiler? 

Spoiler

That Dany is going mad queen and that Jon is gonna kill her. Hope that's not true. Sounds stupid but whatever. Entire season has been trash.

 

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9 minutes ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:
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That Dany is going mad queen and that Jon is gonna kill her. Hope that's not true. Sounds stupid but whatever. Entire season has been trash.

 

It’s been extra stinky trash. I really hope they don’t do this. 

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1 minute ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

It’s been extra stinky trash. I really hope they don’t do this. 

Let's hope it's just a fake spoiler. But based on the latest episode it's clear Dumb & Dumber are going in that direction. I just hope it's like that Sansa-Arya fight of last year...just fake tension for the sake of fake drama.

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Posted (edited)

Tywin said it best in Season 3. Anyone who needs to say they are the king is no true king. Same applies to Dany reminding everyone every 5 minutes that she is the rightful Queen of Westeros. 

Inspire allies to join your cause, don’t throw a tantrum and threaten to burn them alive if they disagree with you. The Tarly executions after the Tyrells were extinguished was a poor move. Why not respect his courage in battle and offer to raise Randyll Tarly to Lord Paramount of the Reach?

If he accepts, you have overnight turned the 2nd largest army in Westeros from your enemy to your cause.

Dany earned her spurs in Essos the hard way. She expects the red carpet treatment in Westeros and it didn’t happen. Jon on the other hand was elected by his own people without his request. That’s a true leader. Lead by example and your people will follow.

Edited by Dragons dance with Wolves

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21 hours ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

Haven’t seen that explicitly stated by anyone. It’s been spelled out pretty clearly that the writers are TRYING to paint Dany in a bad light when she’s done nothing wrong and has been a good ruler for 7 seasons prior. 

Pretty much the entire North has stated that.  The North wants to be independent, as they have been for all but 300 of the last 8,000 years.  Whether or not Dany is a Mad Queen is irrelevant to the North.  They want Out.  Dany has quite clearly shown that she wants them In.

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30 minutes ago, Dragons dance with Wolves said:

Inspire allies to join your cause, don’t throw a tantrum and threaten to burn them alive if they disagree with you. The Tarly executions after the Tyrells were extinguished was a poor move. Why not respect his courage in battle and offer to raise Randyll Tarly to Lord Paramount of the Reach? 

If he accepts, you have overnight turned the 2nd largest army in Westeros from your enemy to your cause. 

Like saving everyone from a buncha zombies?

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6 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

 

Because she’s just lost Jorah, all her Dothraki, is contemplating that she will be a footnote in another mans story and this sour passive aggressive ginger is continuing to snipe at her? Sansa is being out of line and irreverent not Dany. Her response was measured.

I don’t for a second believe Sansa was sincere. She all but gloated when she learned that Rhaegal had died. She wants Dany to lose. 

Gloated?  Over Rhaegal's death?  No.  If she was gloating, it was over what she saw (likely correctly) as Cersei's upcoming demise.

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48 minutes ago, Dragons dance with Wolves said:

Tywin said it best in Season 3. Anyone who needs to say they are the king is no true king. Same applies to Dany reminding everyone every 5 minutes that she is the rightful Queen of Westeros. 

Inspire allies to join your cause, don’t throw a tantrum and threaten to burn them alive if they disagree with you. The Tarly executions after the Tyrells were extinguished was a poor move. Why not respect his courage in battle and offer to raise Randyll Tarly to Lord Paramount of the Reach?

If he accepts, you have overnight turned the 2nd largest army in Westeros from your enemy to your cause.

Dany earned her spurs in Essos the hard way. She expects the red carpet treatment in Westeros and it didn’t happen. Jon on the other hand was elected by his own people without his request. That’s a true leader. Lead by example and your people will follow.

I wouldn't have advised Daenerys to execute the Tarlys, but in this setting it was a thoroughly unexceptional move for a leader to make. Remember, he was a Tyrell bannerman and when Cercei murdered his liege lord, he tossed in with her, anyway. Executing him was a perfectly normal move and is no explanation for anything that is happening. Burning vs beheading isn't a thing, either: cruel and unusual punishment wasn't something they tried to avoid, it was the ideal the executioner strove for.

By the way, she did offer Tarly a pardon if he bent the knee. He refused. He died. If he had sworn her loyalty, of course, she would've let him keep his holdings. Why should she offer him some huge promotion for leading a Lannister army instead of seeking vengeance for his lord's murder, just for bending the knee after he lost? ???

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Posted (edited)

The show writers, Dumb & Dumber, manufacture drama and tension at the expensive of proper / logical character actions and motives. Same with Dorne plot with Ellaria and her kids being so vindictive and illogical, you've loved Oberyn but killed his brother and nephew....? The cattiness between the girls is absurd and unbelievable, considering what they just went through together. 

Edited by GOTFanatic

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14 hours ago, Every Last Chicken said:

Honestly this was the part for me that told me all I need to know about Daenerys. She's entitled and jealous and doesn't know how to handle it. She didn't give two shits about the fact that half of these troops have just been through 2 battles (Battle of the Bastards and the War of Dawn 2.0) and then proclaims to Varys that she's willing to kill innocents in Kings Landing because "My purpose in life is to remove Tyrants, no matter the cost"... Well the cost this time is her becoming a tyrant herself. Nobody in that war council said that they weren't willing to help her remove Cersei from power, but it made no sense to not rest at least a little while. Hell even Rhegal had holes in his wings and was barely flying straight. She is so hellbent that she's willing to drag everyone else down into a war that's quite possibly not winnable at this point. 

She repeatedly feels the need to remind everyone that she is the Queen. The scene with Gendry was awkward as hell. She starts by reminding him that it was his family who overthrew hers and tried to kill her (something obviously he had nothing to do with) and then turns it around and says "you should be the lord of Storms End"...Like what kind of backhanded compliment was that? How about just telling him she appreciates him and that she wants to legitimize him for doing good. Instead she has to make her proposal look better by downing his family first, so that everyone can see "what a gracious queen" she is. 

And lets think back to previous seasons of what she's done when someone she cared for died. When Selmy died she fed the masters to her dragons indiscriminately. No rhyme or reason (she says to find out who the harpies were, although Varys accomplishes this without bloodshed), just death becasue she was angry. What do you think she's going to do now that Jorah, Rhegal, and Missandei have all died all in such a short timespan? I'm not saying she's gone mad or is going mad - I'm saying she's always had this side to her and it's always been the reason I think she would make a terrible monarch. Now some of her advisors are starting to see it as well. 

Sansa and Arya had every right to question her. She's been nothing but pompous since arriving in Winterfel and only a food with blinders on can't see that. 

I agree with everything you said... except that Arya and Sansa, of all people, have the right to criticize her and come out looking like the rightful judges of human virtue. All three of these gals are brats and are driven by the worst of intentions; if they don’t get their way they will throw a temper tantrum. 

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20 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

No matter the cost, wow

So um...can that coup come faster to save people's lives?

 

We know that's not D&D's style - why write a good, plausible story when there's a chance of cheap thrills, thoughtless high drama, betrayals and tension? I suspect she'll be killed (by Jon) just before she executes her demand to "Burn Them All", but we need a good dose of mass destruction before we get to that point - possibly all packed into a 'thrilling' next episode.

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7 hours ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

I wouldn't have advised Daenerys to execute the Tarlys, but in this setting it was a thoroughly unexceptional move for a leader to make. Remember, he was a Tyrell bannerman and when Cercei murdered his liege lord, he tossed in with her, anyway. Executing him was a perfectly normal move and is no explanation for anything that is happening. Burning vs beheading isn't a thing, either: cruel and unusual punishment wasn't something they tried to avoid, it was the ideal the executioner strove for.

By the way, she did offer Tarly a pardon if he bent the knee. He refused. He died. If he had sworn her loyalty, of course, she would've let him keep his holdings. Why should she offer him some huge promotion for leading a Lannister army instead of seeking vengeance for his lord's murder, just for bending the knee after he lost? ???

When you conquer lands, you need help maintaining control of those lands. Typically common folk respond better to another local leader. Genghis Khan would acquire talented retainers through defeating their liege lords in battle and installing them in a position of leadership. Tarly demonstrates he’s a capable military commander, and upjumping him to the Tyrell position who had already joined her cause (now dead) could motivate him to switch sides and replenish/resupply her growing army.

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On 5/6/2019 at 5:36 AM, Bran the Shipper said:

Apparently so, because when you have a secret you should tell your whole family, regardless of how much bloodshed revealing such a secret will cause.

On a side note, I don't like how everyone keeps saying Jon will make a great leader because he doesn't want to be.  And how he is beloved by people and is a war hero.  You know who that sounds like, Robert Baratheon.  And while Robert might look like a good king in comparison to Aerys and Joffery, he really wasn't.  He avoided all responsibility and just left running the kingdom to his hand and council.

Jon has shown some moderate leadership capabilities like absorbing the Wildlings, but that's it.

Ignoring his subjects' making him King and just bending the knee, and still pretendingf to speak for those he neglected is kind of dumb.

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8 hours ago, Dragons dance with Wolves said:

Tywin said it best in Season 3. Anyone who needs to say they are the king is no true king. Same applies to Dany reminding everyone every 5 minutes that she is the rightful Queen of Westeros. 

Inspire allies to join your cause, don’t throw a tantrum and threaten to burn them alive if they disagree with you. The Tarly executions after the Tyrells were extinguished was a poor move. Why not respect his courage in battle and offer to raise Randyll Tarly to Lord Paramount of the Reach?

If he accepts, you have overnight turned the 2nd largest army in Westeros from your enemy to your cause.

Dany earned her spurs in Essos the hard way. She expects the red carpet treatment in Westeros and it didn’t happen. Jon on the other hand was elected by his own people without his request. That’s a true leader. Lead by example and your people will follow.

Why are the Lannisters still the largest army? By the time of the rise of House Tyrell, the Lannisters were not the strongest army. But hey, plot convenience.

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3 hours ago, Winterz said:

Why are the Lannisters still the largest army? By the time of the rise of House Tyrell, the Lannisters were not the strongest army. But hey, plot convenience.

Largest by virtue of being the only Westerosi army left, I guess. Golden Company are an Essos outfit, and Popeye has a navy.

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16 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Largest by virtue of being the only Westerosi army left, I guess. Golden Company are an Essos outfit, and Popeye has a navy.

How the Dornish army has fallen? They didn't take part in any battle they should be fresh.

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