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darmody

Miss Sandy the Hostage

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8 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

With all those balistas, Cersei could have killed 80% of the people huddled outside of the gates, especially her hated brother who she supposedly already put a hit out on.  The whole scene was pretty dumb.

But, I think the point of the OP is that Miss Sandy hasn't been seen to have much of a role except standing around extolling Dany's virtues for many years.  She gives no advice, they haven't even had much BFF interactions lately.  She mostly stands around looking grim.  Another example of how the show threw away characterization and is relying on the audience to remember how things were in the early seasons.

Except the scene wasn't dumb. It served a purpose. It showed Cersei trying to provoke Dany into a mistake. I think she wants Dany to light KL on fire, hope she survives and then in her mind, the rest of the 7 Kingdoms rally to her side since the foreign invader burned innocents alive just like she said they would. If then Cersei can win she is set up as the savior.

It also showed the viewers what preparations KL has been making since we last saw it, getting ready to defend against dragons.

Now, I am with you, I would've killed Tyrion as soon as he came closer. She may have valued Qyburn too much and decided she didn't want to lose him though.

As to Missanndi and her screen time, she is a secondary character and right now all the primary characters are together in one place, kind of hard to get them all in.

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4 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Except the scene wasn't dumb. It served a purpose. It showed Cersei trying to provoke Dany into a mistake. I think she wants Dany to light KL on fire, hope she survives and then in her mind, the rest of the 7 Kingdoms rally to her side since the foreign invader burned innocents alive just like she said they would. If then Cersei can win she is set up as the savior.

It also showed the viewers what preparations KL has been making since we last saw it, getting ready to defend against dragons.

Now, I am with you, I would've killed Tyrion as soon as he came closer. She may have valued Qyburn too much and decided she didn't want to lose him though.

As to Missanndi and her screen time, she is a secondary character and right now all the primary characters are together in one place, kind of hard to get them all in.

Cersei could have just killed her right there.  There is no need to provoke her into a mistake.  Kill her.  She's right there with Tyrion and her only remaining general.  Kill them and be done with it.

I know why the scene exists, but it's stupid because the characters are not acting logically within the story and within the parameters of how they have acted in the past.  Cersei is power is power, she abandoned the idea of maintaining the forms when she blew up the Sept.  There is no reason why she doesn't kill them all where they stand except the show wanted a dramatic scene, and to set up another battle.

Its the same way that the show had Dany inexplicably not surround KL when she first sailed to Westeros, because then Cersei is defeated and no more drama and no more Lena.  Instead they peeled away her forces by her advisors advising stupid actions that were clearly and obviously stupid. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Cersei could have just killed her right there.  There is no need to provoke her into a mistake.  Kill her.  She's right there with Tyrion and her only remaining general.  Kill them and be done with it.

I know why the scene exists, but it's stupid because the characters are not acting logically within the story and within the parameters of how they have acted in the past.  Cersei is power is power, she abandoned the idea of maintaining the forms when she blew up the Sept.  There is no reason why she doesn't kill them all where they stand except the show wanted a dramatic scene, and to set up another battle.

Its the same way that the show had Dany inexplicably not surround KL when she first sailed to Westeros, because then Cersei is defeated and no more drama and no more Lena.  Instead they peeled away her forces by her advisors advising stupid actions that were clearly and obviously stupid. 

I don't disagree that in real life I would have taken my chance right then and aimed everything I had at them and fired, but, then the series ends and that ending would suck. Some things are just plot or time filler

And if we are talking real logic, Dany would have been killed long ago by an assassin. Someone dressed as a slave in the Mysha crowd surfing or another time.

Edited by dbunting
Logic

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12 minutes ago, dbunting said:

I don't disagree that in real life I would have taken my chance right then and aimed everything I had at them and fired, but, then the series ends and that ending would suck. Some things are just plot or time filler

And if we are talking real logic, Dany would have been killed long ago by an assassin. Someone dressed as a slave in the Mysha crowd surfing or another time.

LOL, one of my book peeves is why no one has hired a FM to assassinate her in Essos.  All the slavery money, and slaver cities against her and no one does this?  

I thought the scene worked on an emotional level, Missy's death and the reactions were well done.  I was personally annoyed at Tyrion yet again trying to reason with his sister, like he never learned what he has known for ages...but I find the show is generally very poorly structured and illogical.  But then I've been a ranter for a long time.

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30 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

LOL, one of my book peeves is why no one has hired a FM to assassinate her in Essos.  All the slavery money, and slaver cities against her and no one does this?  

I thought the scene worked on an emotional level, Missy's death and the reactions were well done.  I was personally annoyed at Tyrion yet again trying to reason with his sister, like he never learned what he has known for ages...but I find the show is generally very poorly structured and illogical.  But then I've been a ranter for a long time.

Perhaps the FM don’t support slavery...given their history with slavery.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, MinscS2 said:


Jon has kamikaze-charged an army on his own for less.

No. He saw his cousin-brother die, not his "trusted advisor."

Also, Jon is dumb. Danny is supposed to be smarter. 

Edited by darmody

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2 hours ago, martianmister said:

Why then? Why exactly do you hate her?

I was being sarcastic. I don't hate her. I love her breasts. It's just that she's not the right character for this situation. Basically, she got kidnapped and murdered because Danny doesn't have any other friends. 

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6 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I have disliked Dany since she sacked Meereen in the books.  Disliked her and started rooting against her, so I say this as a Dany non fan....that having her go 'mad' in the space of 2 episodes is a terrible injustice to the character, as is, the idea that she decides to sack KL, which has been sacked before, kills her adversaries, which  has been before, and this is going to somehow constitute her going 'too far' is also a terrible injustice to the character and her story and the show as a whole.  Dany goes crazy and dies in the final 20% of the final season is very poor storytelling.

My problem with this storyline (aside from the fact that Cersei should have been dead two seasons ago) is that she's already gone "too far" compared to burning King's Landing. Our angelic Myhsa has:

Crucified over 100 slave masters

Burned emissaries

Invaded Westeros with hostile foreign armies

Summarily executed lords of Westeros by fire

Threw Mereen into chaos

Burned the Khals

She is a ruthless conqueror, and only now they're worried?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, dbunting said:

Except the scene wasn't dumb. It served a purpose. It showed Cersei trying to provoke Dany into a mistake. I think she wants Dany to light KL on fire, hope she survives and then in her mind, the rest of the 7 Kingdoms rally to her side since the foreign invader burned innocents alive just like she said they would. If then Cersei can win she is set up as the savior.

That is dumb, however. Cersei has no outside support. Nowhere to run. Urine doesn't even have the Iron Islands anymore. We haven't been shown whether Cersei retook Casterly Rock, but she couldn't hold it. Not unless the Golden Company defeats Jon and Danny in the field first. 

When King's Landing burns and the kingdoms rally to Cersei's side, where do they rally to? She has to get out of King's Landing before it burns, because even if she has a fireproof bunker, all bets are off. She'll have no control. 

Also, what kingdoms? The North, the Vale, and Dorne are against her. That's not changing, even if they break for Jon. Far as we know, the Reach, Storklands, Riverlands, and Westerlands don't exist. They're just empty castles waiting for Gendry, Sam, and Bronn. 

Edited by darmody

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9 hours ago, darmody said:

It's difficult to see how that happens without killing Cersei too. Where will she be while her subjects are burning?

It's well established that there are secret tunnels out of the red keep right? I certainty wouldn't be staying the red keep if I were Cersei. 

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1 hour ago, darmody said:

That is dumb, however. Cersei has no outside support. Nowhere to run. Urine doesn't even have the Iron Islands anymore. We haven't been shown whether Cersei retook Casterly Rock, but she couldn't hold it. Not unless the Golden Company defeats Jon and Danny in the field first. 

When King's Landing burns and the kingdoms rally to Cersei's side, where do they rally to? She has to get out of King's Landing before it burns, because even if she has a fireproof bunker, all bets are off. She'll have no control. 

Also, what kingdoms? The North, the Vale, and Dorne are against her. That's not changing, even if they break for Jon. Far as we know, the Reach, Storklands, Riverlands, and Westerlands don't exist. They're just empty castles waiting for Gendry, Sam, and Bronn. 

My post clearly says she would do it to justify what she has been saying all along about the mad queen invader wanting to burn everyone, then the last line says, IF she wins she would be set up as the savior.

As to those other kingdoms, they may not be against her if Dany burns tens of thousands of innocent people. KL supposedly holds a million people, so tens of thousands isn't hard to do with a weapon of mass destruction especially if her dragon fire sets of the remaining wildfire that is in the city. 

Who cares if Yara has the Iron Islands, Euron has the fleet and warriors, so he has the power not her. Same with Casterly Rock. Why would she waste time and manpower to take a castle she knows is worthless, mines are dry. and would do nothing but spread her armies thinner?

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26 minutes ago, Desert Fox said:

It's well established that there are secret tunnels out of the red keep right? I certainty wouldn't be staying the red keep if I were Cersei. 

But where does she go? She has to be somewhere. 

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Just now, darmody said:

But where does she go? She has to be somewhere. 

Pull a Saddam Hussein and just stay in random houses every night. 

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18 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Who cares if Yara has the Iron Islands, Euron has the fleet and warriors, so he has the power not her. Same with Casterly Rock. Why would she waste time and manpower to take a castle she knows is worthless, mines are dry. and would do nothing but spread her armies thinner?

Considering Urine built 1,000 ships in a month or whatever, Yara could have her own fleet by now. Cersei has no desire to rule in exile from the Iron Islands, I hope. With rockstar pirate king to rely upon. 

She would want to occupy Casterly Rock because it is her family seat and the stronghold of the West. Also a good port nearby. But we're not sure if she has enough men to hold King's Landing, let alone anything else at this point. 

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18 minutes ago, darmody said:

Considering Urine built 1,000 ships in a month or whatever, Yara could have her own fleet by now. Cersei has no desire to rule in exile from the Iron Islands, I hope. With rockstar pirate king to rely upon. 

She would want to occupy Casterly Rock because it is her family seat and the stronghold of the West. Also a good port nearby. But we're not sure if she has enough men to hold King's Landing, let alone anything else at this point. 

Cersei has never been shown to give a crap about Casterly rock so why now? KL is a port city so, already have that access. You occupy those places after you finish off your enemy, not before. So yep that's all for later.

As to the Iron Island, they have a magical supply of wood, mass ship building production lines and other resources so you are probably right, Yara will show up at the last second to save the day! It's crazy how in books and show that the Iron Islands are shown as basically barren rocks and yet they have a huge fleet that is fully manned.

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13 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Daenerys reaction to seeing Missandei beheaded was unusually... level-headed,

Level-headed? She turns, walking to her dragon. She is not level-headed but deeply moved, infuriated and shows a mixture of grieving, rage and fury. Where do you see "level-headed" in that scene?

Grey Worm shows anger and grief.

13 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

The way the episode ended on that cliffhanger gives me slight hope that it's all a ruse from the writers, meant to cause tension and anxiety between episodes

Maybe, yes.

13 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

I will await final judgement on her mental status, until I see her actively kill thousands of innocent people. 

We will have to wait for next Monday. We will see then. Everything is possible. Maybe Tyrion once again talks her down, maybe Daenerys openly attacks with rage. 

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16 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Yes, they set it up so those of us who haven't understood it in earlier seasons are not too surprised.

Daenerys wants the good but sometime does worse than she intends. She is on the verge of resembling the Mad King, because there is a side to her that is characterised by fury, rage, vengeance and acting on emotion. 

Daenerys is not mad. Daenerys has it inside her, however, to react mad. And that is what we will see now: Missandei being beheaded in front of her eyes, Daenerys will flip. She will attack and burn thousands and probably even lose or at least fail. Cersei's plan will carry fruits. She wanted Daenerys to flip, otherwise she would have kept Missandei as hostage.

Daenerys will feel so much pain, sorrow, rage and fury that she will react similar to the Mad King. Burn them all. And exactly that were Missandei's last words: Dracaris.

Thank you for writing all this. As you said, hints of Dany the Mad queen has been out there for years (books and seasons) and yet some people ignore them and now they cry that it is a 180-degree change of Dany's character. It is not. It's just that all the stressful events going on right now make the so called mad side of Dany more visible. When I tried to point it out at another forum, people were ready to stone me for it, lol.

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35 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

Thank you for writing all this. As you said, hints of Dany the Mad queen has been out there for years (books and seasons) and yet some people ignore them and now they cry that it is a 180-degree change of Dany's character. It is not. It's just that all the stressful events going on right now make the so called mad side of Dany more visible. When I tried to point it out at another forum, people were ready to stone me for it, lol.

The murdering part of Mad Monarchy has been with her a long time, but the actual madness part? Not really. Not compared to her brother, at least. 

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Posted (edited)

I haven't read the thread, only the first couple posts on the first page but anyone else laugh out loud everytime the OP says "Miss Sandy" ??:lmao:

Edited by Lyanna<3Rhaegar
Spelling error

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