darmody Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 What happens now the Wall is down and no one lives in the vast reaches of the frosty North? Is Stark rule extended, or does Tormund inherit it all? To be called the Ginger Kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajjo Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 Well, Tormund and JOn had no issue about it. It's a free land. The Wildlings take their region as theirs. Very clear, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Pirtle Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 I agree with Kajjo. Now that the White Walkers are gone, the Land of Always Winter is the WIldlings' for the taking. I mean to say, who else would want to live there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerChristian Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 So sad to see Tormund leave. At least he'll have Ghost as company as well as the other Wildlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 The wall is down? I thought there was just the one ten-meter wide hole in the wall. And yeah, it appears that Tormund is taking the wildlings home to eternal winter. Because the entire core of the wildlings plot from season 2 to 4 wasn’t that the wildlings wanted to come south of the wall for safety and food and better climate. The purpose of Mance wasn’t to bring the wildlings through the wall. The original conflict with the wildlings wasn’t that they felt wronged because they were left on the wrong side of the wall. Jon didn’t move them to the Gift to farm the lands and live in better conditions as part of the peace with them. They all just want to go home to 3 meter deep snow and -30 degrees because who doesn’t love that shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roux Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 1 hour ago, RhaenysBee said: The wall is down? I thought there was just the one ten-meter wide hole in the wall. And yeah, it appears that Tormund is taking the wildlings home to eternal winter. Because the entire core of the wildlings plot from season 2 to 4 wasn’t that the wildlings wanted to come south of the wall for safety and food and better climate. The purpose of Mance wasn’t to bring the wildlings through the wall. The original conflict with the wildlings wasn’t that they felt wronged because they were left on the wrong side of the wall. Jon didn’t move them to the Gift to farm the lands and live in better conditions as part of the peace with them. They all just want to go home to 3 meter deep snow and -30 degrees because who doesn’t love that shit? They came down to be safe from the white walkers they knew that the wall was supposed to be able to shield them from the magic of the walkers/ aotd. They don't mind the cold. If Jon takes his crown then they should have a working relationship that if somebody does want to be in seven kingdoms and is willing to kneel, behave great and to flip flop if somebody wants to be out of 7K they can go north and deal with the cold instead. (Id personally go to Essos) I think even Dany would consider a relationship at this point. Jon's brought everybody to terms with the fact that wildlings aren't necessarily bad guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterz Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 2 hours ago, RhaenysBee said: The wall is down? I thought there was just the one ten-meter wide hole in the wall. And yeah, it appears that Tormund is taking the wildlings home to eternal winter. Because the entire core of the wildlings plot from season 2 to 4 wasn’t that the wildlings wanted to come south of the wall for safety and food and better climate. The purpose of Mance wasn’t to bring the wildlings through the wall. The original conflict with the wildlings wasn’t that they felt wronged because they were left on the wrong side of the wall. Jon didn’t move them to the Gift to farm the lands and live in better conditions as part of the peace with them. They all just want to go home to 3 meter deep snow and -30 degrees because who doesn’t love that shit? Plus the lack the resources. Sooo dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azor_ahaiii Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, Winterz said: Plus the lack the resources. Sooo dumb. Hey if eskimos can do it the wildlings can too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LearnToBeNoOne Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 2 hours ago, RhaenysBee said: The wall is down? I thought there was just the one ten-meter wide hole in the wall. And yeah, it appears that Tormund is taking the wildlings home to eternal winter. Because the entire core of the wildlings plot from season 2 to 4 wasn’t that the wildlings wanted to come south of the wall for safety and food and better climate. The purpose of Mance wasn’t to bring the wildlings through the wall. The original conflict with the wildlings wasn’t that they felt wronged because they were left on the wrong side of the wall. Jon didn’t move them to the Gift to farm the lands and live in better conditions as part of the peace with them. They all just want to go home to 3 meter deep snow and -30 degrees because who doesn’t love that shit? It doesn't really benefit anybody to go there yet Tormund sees it as the place to be, returning somewhere his people have less chance of survival. I get it, they're free folk and don't want to follow the rules of the 7 Kingdom's but as you said it goes against the very things they felt wronged by and now given the opportunity for all those problems to be amended he think's nah, I'm good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Spanish_Inquisition Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, LearnToBeNoOne said: It doesn't really benefit anybody to go there yet Tormund sees it as the place to be, returning somewhere his people have less chance of survival. I get it, they're free folk and don't want to follow the rules of the 7 Kingdom's but as you said it goes against the very things they felt wronged by and now given the opportunity for all those problems to be amended he think's nah, I'm good. I don’t get why Tormund, who is normally very canny about things, doesn’t seem to get that there’s no way they’ll just be left in peace up there. At some point, someone is going to try to unite the whole continent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LearnToBeNoOne Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said: I don’t get why Tormund, who is normally very canny about things, doesn’t seem to get that there’s no way they’ll just be left in peace up there. At some point, someone is going to try to unite the whole continent. It could be that he's relying on his relationship with Jon, the fact they participated in 'The Long Night' and that a Stark that sympathises with him and his people will now always be in Winterfell. Probably enough of a reason to convince himself that him and the free folk are free to do whatever they want without any threats as long as they're far enough north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roux Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 We get it, you guys don't think anyone would wanna live in the North. That's not them. They like it. It's home. Period. He said they'll wait out the winter storms before crossing over. There's no reason why they can't just let them be up there and have agreements to respect each other. Essos exists outside of 7k and does fine. They are divided, once the hole in the wall is fixed. No need to connect them.{ respectful relationship would be far better than anything they've had over last thousands of years because they've always feared the wildlings. It will take time to mend that attitude but it can happen. -Jon Snow, if you asked him } Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Spanish_Inquisition Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, LearnToBeNoOne said: It could be that he's relying on his relationship with Jon, the fact they participated in 'The Long Night' and that a Stark that sympathises with him and his people will now always be in Winterfell. Probably enough of a reason to convince himself that him and the free folk are free to do whatever they want without any threats as long as they're far enough north. Probably. It just seems too simple for him to just stroll on back up beyond the wall without even a how-do at the Queen he knows little about. Seems stupid on Jon’s part as well, considering there are at least 3 vacant keeps in the North now that could be offered to them as a show of lasting respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darmody Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 27 minutes ago, Roux said: We get it, you guys don't think anyone would wanna live in the North. That's not them. They like it. It's home. Period. He said they'll wait out the winter storms before crossing over. There's no reason why they can't just let them be up there and have agreements to respect each other. Essos exists outside of 7k and does fine. They are divided, once the hole in the wall is fixed. No need to connect them.{ respectful relationship would be far better than anything they've had over last thousands of years because they've always feared the wildlings. It will take time to mend that attitude but it can happen. -Jon Snow, if you asked him } One of the reasons they liked it was that it was beyond the jurisdiction of the Seven Kingdoms, aside from the Night's Watch raids. That's probably not going to be the case anymore. Also, we hear stories of their ranging south of the Wall for plunder over the course of centuries. Don't you think these hit-and-run invaders might have had the desire to settle south of the Wall if they could? The Northerners wouldn't let them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roux Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, darmody said: One of the reasons they liked it was that it was beyond the jurisdiction of the Seven Kingdoms, aside from the Night's Watch raids. That's probably not going to be the case anymore. Also, we hear stories of their ranging south of the Wall for plunder over the course of centuries. Don't you think these hit-and-run invaders might have had the desire to settle south of the Wall if they could? The Northerners wouldn't let them. The whole point is Jon Wouldd bridge this gap between them. If they want to bend the knee and come south they can. At the same time as people in the 7K were afraid of wildlings, the wildlings i feel had unrealistic ideas about what it meant to bend the knee. They feel like bending the knee makes you automatically a slave to whoever you're honoring. Like your every move is going to be scrutinized. I think that in this recent ~diplomatic endeavor~ they've both learned a little bit about each other so they're not that different which is what Jon was trying and literally got killed trying to prove. They're still different but not as different as old nan would have us believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 7 hours ago, LearnToBeNoOne said: It doesn't really benefit anybody to go there yet Tormund sees it as the place to be, returning somewhere his people have less chance of survival. I get it, they're free folk and don't want to follow the rules of the 7 Kingdom's but as you said it goes against the very things they felt wronged by and now given the opportunity for all those problems to be amended he think's nah, I'm good. I suppose the show forgot all about that and just attributes their need to get south to the white walkers. Which again, is not correct, there were ten thousand other reasons too. And again, they had already been gifted the Gift to farm. Insanity. And it’s not like the north is big on kneeling or formalities, they would be totally fine. Maybe tormund would come down every year to renew his fealty to Jon, get drunk and have a little night of nostalgia with him. 8 hours ago, Roux said: They came down to be safe from the white walkers they knew that the wall was supposed to be able to shield them from the magic of the walkers/ aotd. They don't mind the cold. If Jon takes his crown then they should have a working relationship that if somebody does want to be in seven kingdoms and is willing to kneel, behave great and to flip flop if somebody wants to be out of 7K they can go north and deal with the cold instead. (Id personally go to Essos) I think even Dany would consider a relationship at this point. Jon's brought everybody to terms with the fact that wildlings aren't necessarily bad guys. The cold is not the issue, they have no farmable land and thus very little and hard- to-acquire food. They would have much better circumstances in the Gift which is already theirs. Their children would have better chances of survival, they would have more food. It makes absolutely no sense for them to back behind the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrelhadley Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 I doubt there is much of an appetite with the regular show watchers for a long digression into the diplomatic status of the Free Folk and the crown. They are hunter gatherers so in winter they can usually live of off reindeer, fish and other wildlife as people like the Sami, Innuit and other inhabitants of taiga biome that they are based on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that people who lived north of the wall for thousands of years can't find food or tolerate the cold? Mance had 100,000 in his army, the area supported that many people for thousands of years, I am sure it can support whats left pretty easily. The only reason they left was because of the NK and his army, that is it. That threat is now gone, the wildlings feel out of place in the south, different customs, food, drink everything, and want to go home, to their homes, where they have lived their entire lives and generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LearnToBeNoOne Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 20 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said: I suppose the show forgot all about that and just attributes their need to get south to the white walkers. Which again, is not correct, there were ten thousand other reasons too. And again, they had already been gifted the Gift to farm. Insanity. The show does really tend to forget a lot of things. Mance's aim was to get south of the wall in order to protect his people from the WW's and now that the WW's have been defeated I can understand why Tormund want's to go further north again but that doesn't mean it makes sense. There's clearly a lack of resources as the WW's would have killed every living thing (including animals), which brings me to a Mance quote: ''The freedom to make my own mistakes is all I ever wanted'' maybe Tormund is just following in his footsteps. 20 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said: And it’s not like the north is big on kneeling or formalities, they would be totally fine. Maybe tormund would come down every year to renew his fealty to Jon, get drunk and have a little night of nostalgia with him. Exactly. Tormund will come every so often and say the WW's aren't back yet, have a little party and reassure Jon that he still respects his authority. Maybe even bring Ghost so Jon can see him for a little while, hurting the direwolf even more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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