Sansa breaking her oath and the Anti-Daenerys conspiracy

[Kajjo]

Do you feel it to be in-character for Sansa to break her formal oath by telling Tyrion about Jon's true parentage? The Starks as a dynasty appear to have kept a lot of secrets in Winterfell since generation. Jon is not the thought-to-be half-brother to Sansa, but her cousin.

She willfully and deliberately breaks her oath to further her own position of power. She starts a conspiracy against Daenerys and she really intends to do so. And Tyrion tells Varys, despite not wanting to be part of the conspiracy.

I understood that Varys turned against Daenerys and for the better of the realm would now prefer to support Jon Snow. Obviously, Jon Snow would be the better king and Varys keeps very straight-foward by selecting the bets candidate. Varys knows no loyalty. Tyrion is still supporting Daenerys, but unsure about it. Do you agree with this assessment?

[Stark_in_Winterfell]

Tyrion already knows. Bran told him a long time ago. Sansa will probably be accused of telling. Bran didn't take the oath.

[Kajjo]

2 minutes ago, Stark_in_Winterfell said:

Tyrion already knows.

There is no indication to that, though. We see Tyrion and Sansa talking on the ramparts and we are supposed to believe she broke her oath there. 

[Roux]

2 minutes ago, Stark_in_Winterfell said:

Tyrion already knows. Bran told him a long time ago. Sansa will probably be accused of telling. Bran didn't take the oath.

Tyrion didn't know. He would've acted long ago, instead he runs right to Varys.

[Kajjo]

Just now, Roux said:

Tyrion didn't know. He would've acted long ago, instead he runs right to Varys.

Exactly. We actually see how Tyrion acts to the NEW knowledge.

[Anthony Pirtle]

I don't think it's out of character at all. Sansa has demonstrated over the last couple of seasons that she is willing to do whatever she believes is necessary to secure her position, her family's position, and the North. She may be Ned Stark's daughter, but she's Littlefinger's student. 

[Kajjo]

4 minutes ago, Anthony Pirtle said:

he may be Ned Stark's daughter, but she's Littlefinger's student. 

Yes, somehow. But breaking oaths? 

She is an intrigant now, she learned the game, she turned into a cold-blooded player. Now we see her true new personality for the first time. Horrible.

[MarieAntoinette]

6 minutes ago, Anthony Pirtle said:

She may be Ned Stark's daughter, but she's Littlefinger's student. 

I don't know if this was on purpose, but this scene showed that Sansa is not like her father. Ned took that secret to the grave, and Sansa broke the oath.

[Faera]

Honestly, I don't care and I can't blame her. Oaths get people nowhere - we've seen that enough times, sadly. I don't even think it was born out of her desire for power - more her belief that Jon was being a moron again. And he is.

[btfu806]

I hated it. I am on Sansa's side in this show for the most part (I can't stand Dany for a while now). But that was awful with what they did to her character.

D&D apparently can't really write female characters. The majority of them are just catty. Or naive.

[tallTale]

Sansa's word is worthless.

[Angel Eyes]

Just now, btfu806 said:

I hated it. I am on Sansa's side in this show for the most part (I can't stand Dany for a while now). But that was awful with what they did to her character.

D&D apparently can't really write female characters. The majority of them are just catty. Or naive.

Same here. Just... who the heck are we supposed to root for? Daenerys the Dragon Queen who wanted to burn the city? Cersei, who did burn the city? Or Sansa the Oathbreaker?

[btfu806]

1 minute ago, Angel Eyes said:

Same here. Just... who the heck are we supposed to root for? Daenerys the Dragon Queen who wanted to burn the city? Cersei, who did burn the city? Or Sansa the Oathbreaker?

Or Jon the idiot, Tyrion who can't make a correct choice, Jamie who keeps running back to Cersei, the WW who were pointless to the show ... the list goes on.

At this point, I am rooting for Cersei, she has been the most consistent character.

If I get told one more time about how great Jon is and a great leader, or how Dany is loved by the people or whatever else because D&D are incapable of showing it to me, I am going to throw my TV out the window.

[Faera]

4 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Same here. Just... who the heck are we supposed to root for? Daenerys the Dragon Queen who wanted to burn the city? Cersei, who did burn the city? Or Sansa the Oathbreaker?

Honestly, I don't think we truly want to root for anyone. Everyone is out for themselves or doing things for selfish motivations.

Sansa dislikes Dany's rule and so undercuts her against Jon's wishes; Dany is about to lay waste King's Landing to the ground and murder literally a million potential innocents; Cersei wants power even if it means being Queen of the Ashes; Jaime illogically wants to save her because he cannot rise above it all; and Jon wants to love Dany and this is leading him to make potentially poor choices.

Really, the only thing all of this shows us is that innocent people like Missandei who believe in these rulers who, frankly, are not the golden savours they believed them to be but for selfish and fallible people.

Frankly, I half expect this to all be revealed to have been Bran's intention all along -- to get rid of people like Dany and Cersei who fight for the wrong thing. Jon is up in the air; he'll either die in the pointless struggle with Dany or he'll betray her for his family's sake. If Dany makes one more veiled threat about his parentage or his family, I think he might snap too. Either that or it will just be a case of ensuring neither queen seats the Iron Throne - "love is the death if duty" so therefore duty is the death of love.

And all that jazz.

[Nerevanin]

I don't really blame Sansa for this. We finally see that she isn't the "little bird" anymore, as she said herself. Now she is finally a player and I like that. This is a game of thrones, after all. Dany burned people and crucified others for her goal that is the Iron Throne. Sansa broke an oath to secure her goal and that's independent North. I don't have a problem with it.

It wouldn't make much sense imo if Sansa opposed Dany for so long just to eventually bow her head and do nothing.

[lakin1013]

Just now, Nerevanin said:

I don't really blame Sansa for this. We finally see that she isn't the "little bird" anymore, as she said herself. Now she is finally a player and I like that. This is a game of thrones, after all. Dany burned people and crucified others for her goal that is the Iron Throne. Sansa broke an oath to secure her goal and that's independent North. 

For me, the problem involves Sansa's motives. Is she for the North?  Her words say so except when we consider that Sansa could not be bothered to defend the North by taking sword lessons or learn any type of offensive skills.  Her words say so except when we consider that while in the crypts, Sansa did NOTHING to comfort her fellow Northerners.  Her words say so yet she spent time in the crypts hiding behind a headstone.  Sometimes I think Sansa doesn't like Dany because Dany is prettier than her.  And sometimes, I think about Cersei's prophecy and how Sansa and Dany are engaged in their own little ...another younger, prettier (Sansa) ... to cast down and take all she holds dear (Dany)

 

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

6 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

I don't really blame Sansa for this. We finally see that she isn't the "little bird" anymore, as she said herself. Now she is finally a player and I like that. This is a game of thrones, after all. Dany burned people and crucified others for her goal that is the Iron Throne. Sansa broke an oath to secure her goal and that's independent North. I don't have a problem with it.

It wouldn't make much sense imo if Sansa opposed Dany for so long just to eventually bow her head and do nothing.

What's Sansa ultimate goal here with telling Tyrion about Jon. Independent North or not bending the knee to Dany? Will Sansa still want a independent North if Jon claims the IT probably not. If Sansa thinks Dany is some mad queen in the making, then telling Tyrion Jons secret puts Jon in danger, no?

[Bradam]

They didn't show Sansa tell Tyrion, he could have very well found out from Bran for all we know.  

[Kajjo]

2 hours ago, MarieAntoinette said:

I don't know if this was on purpose, but this scene showed that Sansa is not like her father. Ned took that secret to the grave, and Sansa broke the oath.

Right, this feels so wrong to me. 

The Starks are a pack based on honor. Sansa defiles honor and family so much here. I didn't really see this in her arc till now. She's turning un-Starkish and ruthless and dishonorable.

[King Jon Snow Stark]

2 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Right, this feels so wrong to me. 

The Starks are a pack based on honor. Sansa defiles honor and family so much here. I didn't really see this in her arc till now. She's turning un-Starkish and ruthless and dishonorable.

The Starks are no more. One is a robot, one is an assassin who doesnt plan on coming back, one is the new little finger and the other one is a broken down cousin with dual loyalties.