Sansa breaking her oath and the Anti-Daenerys conspiracy

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

1 minute ago, lakin1013 said:

With many good reasons, Sansa has very little interest or respect for men.  She sees them as pieces to be moved in a game -- a female Littlefinger -- just what we needed.

I agree. For all that it’s been hammered home that Sansa has learned from her experiences and become a player under the tutelage of Baelish, she’s made a poor choice here IMHO. 

There’s no legitimate reason for her to undermine Dany. The desire for Northern self-rule just isn’t a strong enough reason for her to be playing Jon as an alternative to Dany. 

She’s doing this to reach her own ends, and Jon is simply easier for her to manipulate and she knows it. 

[LucyMormont]

5 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

She's hoping Tyrion or Varys will be Jon's ally in the South, because he needs them. She also clearly sent Arya to watch over Jon. 

I don't know what she's hoping, but the probability of Tyrion and Varys turning against Jon is the same. Politically, it's not the best for stability to have two contenders, and if Sansa does not know that, she's not as clever as she thinks she is. It's not unlikely that Tyrion/Varys would think that getting rid of Jon, even if they hate do to this,  would be preferable to another civil war if this info gets public. 

And I don't think she sent Arya, I think Arya decided to act by herself. 

[Wik]

16 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Let's wait and see how it develops. 

But I have to make knee jerk, spiteful reactions, its what drives me and allows me to continue hate watching....

[Rose of Red Lake]

4 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Different reasons, though. Sam because he wants Jon to lead, Sansa because she wants Sansa to lead.

How is Sansa preferring Jon to stay with them, or preferring Jon as king, doing it for HER power? Lol make it make sense. 

[Wik]

19 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

As she does now, ignoring him and spreading her decisions. 

Ok, that is HARDLY ruling through him....

17 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Sansa would rule through Jon by manipulation. 

Would she likely get preferential treatment? Probably. But I can hardly imagine, with Jon's iron sense of honor, that if Sansa said "go attack Dorne" Jon would just say ok...he isn't Hodor......

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

How is Sansa preferring Jon to stay with them, or preferring Jon as king, doing it for HER power? Lol make it make sense. 

Jon is easily manipulated. Having Jon in any position of power is better for her long-term, regardless of her goal.  

Jon’s love for his family is his primary weakness and she’s happy to exploit it. She’s MUCH more likely to get what she wants from Jon than from Dany (or anyone else)

[anjulibai]

1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

How is Sansa preferring Jon to stay with them, or preferring Jon as king, doing it for HER power? Lol make it make sense. 

She's manipulating him to her own ends. If he stays with them, she can work to gain the throne herself. If he becomes king, she can continue to manipulate him and rule through him. She knows Jon doesn't actually want to be king - so either outcome for her (he is king and lets her rule through him, he stays in the North and she goes for the throne) is going to increase 

Fight every battle, everywhere, in your mind - that's what Sansa does now. 

 

2 minutes ago, Wik said:

Would she likely get preferential treatment? Probably. But I can hardly imagine, with Jon's iron sense of honor, that if Sansa said "go attack Dorne" Jon would just say ok...he isn't Hodor......

 

She would never just say "Go attack Dorne". She'd subtle manipulate him over a period of time to where he thinks that's their only option. 

[Wik]

1 minute ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

Jon is easily manipulated. Having Jon in any position of power is better for her long-term, regardless of her goal.  

Jon’s love for his family is his primary weakness and she’s happy to exploit it. She’s MUCH more likely to get what she wants from Jon than from Dany (or anyone else)

But the point is everyone leaves the "what she wants" as extremely vague....why??? Well likely because you guys are imagining this, which isn't OUT OF THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY....but you have literally given vague ideas/points, "What she wants". 

Well, I think it seems she wants her family safe and in power. What else does she want? ANY specifics? I mean if we had a clear undercurrent of Sansa trying to become queen, I would see more of what all of you guys keep saying. But that hasn't even been hinted at (although I do support the theory of Jon and Sansa being K/Q). 

You guys just kjeep replying with vague and feeble "she will rule through Jon to get what she wants" as if "what she wants" is to over throw him or cause civil disorder just for the fuck of it and I don't get that vibe AT ALL. 

[anjulibai]

I'll say it flat out - Sansa wants to rule the Seven Kingdoms. 

How she gets to do that depends a great deal on the actions of others, and right now she's working on different threads to move her towards that goal. Just like Littlefinger did. 

It doesn't matter how she gets there, just that she does. 

[Pandean]

Personally IDK how Sansa could rule through Jon considering the fact for the past three seasons Jon has been ignoring her advice at every turn. 

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

2 minutes ago, Wik said:

But the point is everyone leaves the "what she wants" as extremely vague....why??? Well likely because you guys are imagining this, which isn't OUT OF THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY....but you have literally given vague ideas/points, "What she wants". 

Well, I think it seems she wants her family safe and in power. What else does she want? ANY specifics? I mean if we had a clear undercurrent of Sansa trying to become queen, I would see more of what all of you guys keep saying. But that hasn't even been hinted at (although I do support the theory of Jon and Sansa being K/Q). 

You guys just kjeep replying with vague and feeble "she will rule through Jon to get what she wants" as if "what she wants" is to over throw him or cause civil disorder just for the fuck of it and I don't get that vibe AT ALL. 

She wants to be certain she’ll be left alone, in peace up in the North. She doesn’t want the Iron Throne. 

She wants to live quietly in Winterfell, either as Lady or as Queen in the North. 

Jon threatens both of those claims, so it’s in her best interest to see him installed on the IT where she can maintain her own position and also quietly manipulate him if need be. 

[BlackLightning]

17 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Well clearly she's trying anything she can to raise the issue that hey, Jon is better than your kween. It plants a seed. And Varys saw the potential! Varys was dropping truth bombs this episode.

Okay. The seed has been planted.

Apparently, the solution is to kill Daenerys, pass off Daenerys' hard-earned resources and armies onto Jon and force Jon to live a life what he doesn't want to live because it's "good for the realm."

Does that sound right or fair to you?

Arya doesn't want to marry Gendry, become the Lady of Storm's End and give birth to the next generation of House Baratheon. Should she be forced to set aside her own vision for herself because it's good for the realm to have someone like her as one of the most powerful and influential women for the next two or three generations?

[Mladen]

This is what happens when people don't pay attention.

Sansa doing this is in complete line what our Saint Ned would actually do. Breaking oath? Ned wasn't about that when it was Jon and his children's lives on the line. He has been lying about Jon. He lied for Sansa moments before he died. He did what he had to for the sake and survival of his family.

When asked what would Ned choose between love and duty, Jon said "the right thing". Sansa did the same. She did the right thing for everyone. Because, we all know it. Jon would be a better King than Dany.

[Nightwish]

13 minutes ago, Risto said:

This is what happens when people don't pay attention.

Sansa doing this is in complete line what our Saint Ned would actually do. Breaking oath? Ned wasn't about that when it was Jon and his children's lives on the line. He has been lying about Jon. He lied for Sansa moments before he died. He did what he had to for the sake and survival of his family.

When asked what would Ned choose between love and duty, Jon said "the right thing". Sansa did the same. She did the right thing for everyone. Because, we all know it. Jon would be a better King than Dany.

Saint Sansa!!

[BlackLightning]

3 minutes ago, Risto said:

This is what happens when people don't pay attention.

Sansa doing this is in complete line what our Saint Ned would actually do. Breaking oath? Ned wasn't about that when it was Jon and his children's lives on the line. He has been lying about Jon. He lied for Sansa moments before he died. He did what he had to for the sake and survival of his family.

When asked what would Ned choose between love and duty, Jon said "the right thing". Sansa did the same. She did the right thing for everyone. Because, we all know it. Jon would be a better King than Dany.

Let's say the two of us had both similar qualifications for a job as a mechanical engineer in the United States for KBR. However, I am slightly more qualified if only due to the fact that I have more experience working as an engineer in the United States at a sister company of KBR. The bulk of your experience, however, comes from a different culture in a different country...and also you're only slightly more inexperienced than me. You're no less valid just different employer, different culture, different country.

I don't want the job. I have never applied for the job. I've never even actually sat down for an interview for a job. I don't want the job; I'm happy where I am. I'm not even working in the mechanical engineering field anymore. Again: I do not want the job.

You, on the other hand, do want the job. You've researched the company and prepared for all the questions in he interview. You went to career fairs and networking events. You invested in a haircut and a new suit. You interviewed multiple times. You brushed up on your knowledge so that it can be showcased. You put together a portfolio. You even sent out follow-up e-mails and thank you letters.

How would you feel if I was to get the job? How would you feel if you found out that I really didn't want the job but that I was arm-twisted into accepting.

Is it right for the employer to tell you that I would be the better mechanical engineer because I didn't want to be the better engineer?

[Rose of Red Lake]

10 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Okay. The seed has been planted.

Apparently, the solution is to kill Daenerys, pass off Daenerys' hard-earned resources and armies onto Jon and force Jon to live a life what he doesn't want to live because it's "good for the realm."

Does that sound right or fair to you?

Arya doesn't want to marry Gendry, become the Lady of Storm's End and give birth to the next generation of House Baratheon. Should she be forced to set aside her own vision for herself because it's good for the realm to have someone like her as one of the most powerful and influential women for the next two or three generations?

Right now, she hasn't put anyone on the throne yet. She's trying to illustrate Dany as a poorer choice in comparison to Jon, and build social capital for him at the same time. She is trying to save Jon from dying in the South in an unnecessary war. He is chained to Dany now through obligation and fear, and he revealed his true motives in this episode. He told his true-love Tormund, "I wish I was going with you" as he is going south, out of duty. Whatever Sansa is doing, she's doing it to entangle himself from Dany and protect him. She sent Arya. She's Cat begging Ned not to go, and trying to protect him at the same time. She's just going to learn from Cat's mistakes because that's what all the Starks will be doing the final act.

[Winter's Cold]

This is what being the new Littlefinger means. Lying to everyone including your own family is par for the course

 

My favorite Sansa moment was when Sansa begged Jon to take back Winterfell and rescue Rickon. Once they arrive at Winterfell, Sansa tells Jon to give up on Rickon. 

Jon should have learned that he couldn't trust Sansa then.

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

29 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

she can continue to manipulate him and rule through him.

I'm sorry you must be thinking of Tommen.

[King Jon Snow Stark]

17 minutes ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

She wants to be certain she’ll be left alone, in peace up in the North. She doesn’t want the Iron Throne. 

She wants to live quietly in Winterfell, either as Lady or as Queen in the North. 

Jon threatens both of those claims, so it’s in her best interest to see him installed on the IT where she can maintain her own position and also quietly manipulate him if need be. 

Only reason she gets to be Lady is because Bran wants nothing to do with it. He should be Lord of Winterfell and Lord Stark. Jon passed over the opportunity and let her take the big room. Sansa has been Lady of Winterfell since the end of Battle of the Bastards. Jon was made king and then warden Sansa's position has not changed. Sansa wants to be heard by her brother and she does not want outside interference. I dont think she had problem with King Jon. 

[Nightwish]

30 minutes ago, Wik said:

But the point is everyone leaves the "what she wants" as extremely vague....why??? Well likely because you guys are imagining this, which isn't OUT OF THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY....but you have literally given vague ideas/points, "What she wants". 

Well, I think it seems she wants her family safe and in power. What else does she want? ANY specifics? I mean if we had a clear undercurrent of Sansa trying to become queen, I would see more of what all of you guys keep saying. But that hasn't even been hinted at (although I do support the theory of Jon and Sansa being K/Q). 

You guys just kjeep replying with vague and feeble "she will rule through Jon to get what she wants" as if "what she wants" is to over throw him or cause civil disorder just for the fuck of it and I don't get that vibe AT ALL. 

Sorry but wasn't Tyrion addressing this question to her: She got the North, what the hell she wants and can't be happy about it?