Sansa breaking her oath and the Anti-Daenerys conspiracy

[Haskelltier]

1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

We'll see. 

I expect if Jon finds out about it, his relationship to Sansa will degrade significantly.

She could pretend our Master of Whisperers aka Varys had gotten this information from one of his Little Birds and told Tyrion. Or Daenerys told Tyrion when she wanted his counsel on that matter.

[btfu806]

Just now, Kajjo said:

Petyr Baelish had that moments, too. He personally threatened Ned Stark, he personally murdered the Fool and Lysa, he was very direct to quite a few people. His threats to Rhoyce was gross, when he used with Robin.

His threatening to Ned was his whole chaos is a ladder, it led to Ned dying and no one knowing he was involved. Now I guess you will argue they find out in Season 7 from Bran, and while that's true I would argue that post season 5 LF is nothing like pre season 5 LF. And I will argue that's not what happens in the books, but we will see...

He murdered Lysa and the Fool, sure. In front of a young impressionable Sansa to control her, that's their secret. He once again to moved up the chaos ladder and knows that she most likely won't talk (at least till way later on most likely but he is keeping her close to control her).

The Rhoyce threats were show only, right? I can't remember....

Sansa's plan is to hope Tyrion decides to betray Dany and help her brother instead? What makes her possibly think that's the case. Has Tyrion stated he cares who has the best claim to the throne? After all Dany has done for Tyrion, and is supposedly in love with her (who knows for sure), he is just going to back stab her because Jon may or may not have Targ blood. Which, by the way, could be a lie so why would he believe it? 

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

8 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

We should stick to what they show. 

Thats rather hard to do, because they don't show her telling. This is why "oathbreaking Sansa" isnt really what the show cares about. And it shouldn't, there are more important things to convey in the final two episodes. The story is now about the truth of Jon's parentage, superior claim, and superior leadership, his choices, and how the Starks will work together.

[Kajjo]

8 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Thats rather hard to do, because they don't show her telling. This is why "oathbreaking Sansa" isnt really what the show cares about.

Come on, they show her calling him back, and next Tyrion knows the truth. There is only one possible source and it's Sansa.

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

20 hours ago, Risto said:

This is what happens when people don't pay attention.

Sansa doing this is in complete line what our Saint Ned would actually do. Breaking oath? Ned wasn't about that when it was Jon and his children's lives on the line. He has been lying about Jon. He lied for Sansa moments before he died. He did what he had to for the sake and survival of his family.

When asked what would Ned choose between love and duty, Jon said "the right thing". Sansa did the same. She did the right thing for everyone. Because, we all know it. Jon would be a better King than Dany.

How does Sansa know she is doing the right thing?  Maybe it is just the rushed writing this season that makes it appear that she had prejudged Dany before she had even met her. They have set up this conflict between the Starks and Daenerys and it just seems forced without sufficient buildup.  

[Rose of Red Lake]

7 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Come on, they show her calling him back, and next Tyrion knows the truth. There is only one possible source and it's Sansa.

Either way, the show doesnt care. Varys and Tyrion just have to wonder why Jon can ride a dragon and they'd figure it out in two seconds anyway. Sansa's punishment for this "heinous crime" isnt the item of the day. Dany commiting mass murder and giving Jon an ultimatum that he has to lie to his family so she can keep the throne, is.

[Nictarion]

51 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

David Nutter said Sansa didnt tell Tyrion, he just figured it out by reading her reactions. Lol this show and its mind games. 

Link or it didn’t happen. 

Sansa betraying her family to get her way is completely in character for her. She absolutely told Tyrion. 

[Lollygag]

44 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

What really annoys me is D&D made the comment that Sandra is a student of LF or whatever. LF was never openly hostile to his enemies, he was sneaky and cunning. It may not make complete sense that Sandra hates Dany, but have her be a little more clever about it, jeeze. If she was a student of LF she obviously learned nothing.

And LF also told her to not tell people her motives and to make moves against her true motives sometimes to keep people guessing.

But Sandra is all NORTHERN INDEPENDENCE! NORTHERN INDEPENDENCE!  Hey Dany! Wanna know what I want? NORTHERN INDEPENDENCE!

 

 

[David Selig]

9 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Link or it didn’t happen. 

Sansa betraying her family to get her way is completely in character for her. She absolutely told Tyrion. 

It's most likely from this interview - https://www.thewrap.com/game-of-thrones-jaime-cersei-daenerys-kings-landing-director-david-nutter-last-of-the-starks-season-8-episode-leaks/

 

Quote

There is clearly a secret-keeping problem in Winterfell, with Jon Snow’s inability to promise Daenerys that he wouldn’t tell Arya and Sansa he’s Aegon Targaryen. Can you explain how you set this up so Sansa would then tell Tyrion, and it would all spread from there?

Well, it’s not so much that Sansa tells Tyrion, but Sansa is talking to Tyrion and he suspects something in her reaction to that. So I think that comes basically through his reading Sansa’s expression more than anything else.

 

[Lollygag]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/game-thrones-director-david-nutter-220028545.html

 

Quote

There is clearly a secret-keeping problem in Winterfell, with Jon Snow’s inability to promise Daenerys that he wouldn’t tell Arya and Sansa he’s Aegon Targaryen. Can you explain how you set this up so Sansa would then tell Tyrion, and it would all spread from there?

Well, it’s not so much that Sansa tells Tyrion, but Sansa is talking to Tyrion and he suspects something in her reaction to that. So I think that comes basically through his reading Sansa’s expression more than anything else.

 

Putting on my show apologist hat to try and hash out Tyrion's path to figuring it out...In AGOT, Tyrion looked closely at Jon and noted something like you have nothing of your mother in you, so Tyrion’s been wondering at Jon’s mother for a long time. Then he sees Jon ride a dragon. He's noted Jon’s statue-staring patterns (Wait! He’s staring at Lyanna now!). Lyanna/Rhaegar. The uber-honorable Ned with a mystery bastard….

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

15 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Link or it didn’t happen. 

Sansa betraying her family to get her way is completely in character for her. She absolutely told Tyrion. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thewrap.com/game-of-thrones-jaime-cersei-daenerys-kings-landing-director-david-nutter-last-of-the-starks-season-8-episode-leaks/amp/ 

"Well, it’s not so much that Sansa tells Tyrion, but Sansa is talking to Tyrion and he suspects something in her reaction to that. So I think that comes basically through his reading Sansa’s expression more than anything else."

"Sansa betraying her family" - wow, how profound. Only every Sansa haters wet dream. 

Sansa shows no fear around Dany. Its so refreshing that she's not afraid of her. The yes-men around her are, though. We've been  watching the cultists simper and bow for 7 seasons, its getting stale. 

 

[Mystical]

HAHA. So Sansa didn't snitch according to Nutter? Then why is everyone so mad at her for breaking her oath when clearly she didn't? Oh, D&D said she learned from LF. Does that mean according to them she did snitch?

Jesus Christ the collective stupidity on this show is seriously mind blowing. Does no one on the creative team know the actual story?

[Cas Stark]

4 minutes ago, Mystical said:

HAHA. So Sansa didn't snitch according to Nutter? Then why is everyone so mad at her for breaking her oath when clearly she didn't? Oh, D&D said she learned from LF. Does that mean according to them she did snitch?

Jesus Christ the collective stupidity on this show is seriously mind blowing. Does no one on the creative team know the actual story?

That's the risk you run when you stop writing dialogue and rely on cut aways and staring to tell the story.  No one knows what the story is anymore.  

[Nictarion]

Even if she didn’t directly tell him (which is not how I read the scene at all as he was walking away and she called him back) it’s her fault it got out. 

[Nightwish]

4 minutes ago, Mystical said:

HAHA. So Sansa didn't snitch according to Nutter? Then why is everyone so mad at her for breaking her oath when clearly she didn't? Oh, D&D said she learned from LF. Does that mean according to them she did snitch?

Jesus Christ the collective stupidity on this show is seriously mind blowing. Does no one on the creative team know the actual story?

LOl, of course she did. Tyrion and Varys were discussing even Robert's rebellion being based on a lie. How did they know that Rheagar hadn't raped Lyanna? This information isn't not shared through a glance. Haha, this is ridiculous. 

 

 

[Mystical]

4 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

LOl, of course she did.

Not according to Nutter. According to him Tyrion figured it all out on his own. Which would actually be possible since Tyrion's mind has been praised to high heavens just in this Season alone.

[Mladen]

55 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

How does Sansa know she is doing the right thing?  Maybe it is just the rushed writing this season that makes it appear that she had prejudged Dany before she had even met her. They have set up this conflict between the Starks and Daenerys and it just seems forced without sufficient buildup.  

We will all agree that writing for this season has been atrocious and that is why there is a lot that has not been said. How do we know or how does Sansa know she is doing the right thing? Well, Tyrion and Varys came to conclusion that Jon is being if not equally good then even better claimant than Daenerys.

Of course there is some prejudice there, but then, look at what Dany has been doing so far. She literally asked them to march on KL with wounded soldiers. And Jon literally agreed to that because he has submitted himself and doesn't even want to reason. Luckily, Arya intervened and made him listen to them. 

So, for Sansa, the right thing is Jon. And she is pushing it.  Given Dany's state of mind and the fact that almost none of her advisers fully believes in her, Sansa's actions even make sense. 

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

3 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Even if she didn’t directly tell him (which is not how I read the scene at all as he was walking away and she called him back) it’s her fault it got out. 

Sansa had to have directly told Tyrion in order for him to know the details of who Jon really was.  His first statement to Varys was that all the war, suffering, and misery for the past 20 years had all been caused by Robert Baratheon loving someone who didn’t love him back. Sansa did tell him!   

[the tower of albion]

You know Sansa wants the north because the north now includes the lands beyond the wall making it the largest of the seven Kingdoms by far. It becomes the new power realm.

[Nictarion]

8 minutes ago, the tower of albion said:

You know Sansa wants the north because the north now includes the lands beyond the wall making it the largest of the seven Kingdoms by far. It becomes the new power realm.

It was always the largest by far. Robert mentioned it’s bigger than the other 6 kingdoms combined. It’s still mostly a frozen wasteland though.