Sansa breaking her oath and the Anti-Daenerys conspiracy

[Nightwish]

14 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Not according to Nutter. According to him Tyrion figured it all out on his own. Which would actually be possible since Tyrion's mind has been praised to high heavens just in this Season alone.

Tyrion knows that Robert's rebellion was a lie (they discuss it with Varys). Apparently she even told him that Rheagar and Lyanna where married and he loved her. Tyrion is clever but not a psychic. 

[the tower of albion]

Just now, Nictarion said:

It was always the largest by far. Robert mentioned it’s bigger than the other 6 kingdoms combined. It’s still mostly a frozen wasteland though. 

Aye but now it's safe to exploit. Who knows what wealth lies out there. Gold mines etc.

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

16 minutes ago, Risto said:

We will all agree that writing for this season has been atrocious and that is why there is a lot that has not been said. How do we know or how does Sansa know she is doing the right thing? Well, Tyrion and Varys came to conclusion that Jon is being if not equally good then even better claimant than Daenerys.

Of course there is some prejudice there, but then, look at what Dany has been doing so far. She literally asked them to march on KL with wounded soldiers. And Jon literally agreed to that because he has submitted himself and doesn't even want to reason. Luckily, Arya intervened and made him listen to them. 

So, for Sansa, the right thing is Jon. And she is pushing it.  Given Dany's state of mind and the fact that almost none of her advisers fully believes in her, Sansa's actions even make sense. 

Sansa was prejudicial or maybe envious of Dany before Sansa even knew Jon had the better claim. She was already scheming and plotting as Littlefinger has taught her to do.   She is creating chaos.  She is even responsible for Jaime hightailing it back to King’s Landing.   She is underhanded and cunning.  I will admit she understands the needs of the Northerners better than Dany because she has had a lifetime to know them.  I am just saying that she was setting a plan in motion to destroy Daenerys before Dany set foot in Winterfell.   She gets an A+ for being  good at playing The Game of Thrones but that doesn’t mean I have to like her at this point in time. Currently, she is just another Varys or Littlefinger.

[Mystical]

4 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Tyrion knows that Robert's rebellion was a lie (they discuss it with Varys). Apparently she even told him that Rheagar and Lyanna where married and he loved her. Tyrion is clever but not a psychic. 

Says you. Nutter says different. And Nutter's point can actually be supported due to the Tyrion worship this show loves to have.

[Mladen]

Just now, TheFirstofHerName said:

Sansa was prejudicial or maybe envious of Dany before Sansa even knew Jon had the better claim. She was already scheming and plotting as Littlefinger has taught her to do.   She is creating chaos.  She is even responsible for Jaime hightailing it back to King’s Landing.   She is underhanded and cunning.  I will admit she understands the needs of the Northerners better than Dany because she has had a lifetime to know them.  I am just saying that she was setting a plan in motion to destroy Daenerys before Dany set foot in Winterfell.   She gets an A+ for being  good at playing The Game of Thrones but that doesn’t mean I have to like her at this point in time. Currently, she is just another Varys or Littlefinger at this point.  

Yes, but Jon is better ruler than Dany. We all know it. Even Varys and Tyrion are aware of that. He would be a better King and right now that is no longer an opinion, but a fact. So, Sansa pushing for Jon. And that is inevitably good for all of them.

As for Jaime, that is on Jaime. Not Sansa. And it is absurd to claim that she is responsible for other people's faults. Jaime;s decisions are on him, Dany's decision to march on Cersei with wounded soldiers. All of that is on them. Sansa just used their flaws to push them aside.

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

1 minute ago, Mystical said:

Says you. Nutter says different. And Nutter's point can actually be supported due to the Tyrion worship this show loves to have.

This is crazy.   Are we now suppose to not believe what our eyes and ears told us on the screen?

[Nightwish]

 

8 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

Sansa was prejudicial or maybe envious of Dany before Sansa even knew Jon had the better claim. She was already scheming and plotting as Littlefinger has taught her to do.   She is creating chaos.  She is even responsible for Jaime hightailing it back to King’s Landing.   She is underhanded and cunning.  I will admit she understands the needs of the Northerners better than Dany because she has had a lifetime to know them.  I am just saying that she was setting a plan in motion to destroy Daenerys before Dany set foot in Winterfell.   She gets an A+ for being  good at playing The Game of Thrones but that doesn’t mean I have to like her at this point in time. Currently, she is just another Varys or Littlefinger.

 I agree, it's sad her character turned into another character capable only for scheming. After what she has been through someone would expect better of her. 

[Mystical]

Just now, TheFirstofHerName said:

This is crazy.   Are we now suppose to not believe what our eyes and ears told us on the screen?

Are you new to the show?

2 minutes ago, Risto said:

As for Jaime, that is on Jaime. Not Sansa. And it is absurd to claim that she is responsible for other people's faults. Jaime;s decisions are on him, Dany's decision to march on Cersei with wounded soldiers. All of that is on them. Sansa just used their flaws to push them aside.

You just don't get it. Sansa is responsible for every person's decision in the entire history of Westeros. It wasn't the Children of the Forest's decision to create the NK. That was Sansa.

[Lollygag]

3 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Says you. Nutter says different. And Nutter's point can actually be supported due to the Tyrion worship this show loves to have.

Actually Tyrion's knowing these things can be explained by Tyrion guessing and then Sansa filling in the details only after he figured it out. That's how those sorts of things usually go. 

Just now, Mystical said:

You just don't get it. Sansa is responsible for every person's decision in the entire history of Westeros. It wasn't the Children of the Forest's decision to create the NK. That was Sansa.

Only the bad decisions. Never the good ones. Gotta maintain the purity of the headcanon. 

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

1 minute ago, Risto said:

Yes, but Jon is better ruler than Dany. We all know it. Even Varys and Tyrion are aware of that. He would be a better King and right now that is no longer an opinion, but a fact. So, Sansa pushing for Jon. And that is inevitably good for all of them.

As for Jaime, that is on Jaime. Not Sansa. And it is absurd to claim that she is responsible for other people's faults. Jaime;s decisions are on him, Dany's decision to march on Cersei with wounded soldiers. All of that is on them. Sansa just used their flaws to push them aside.

And yet Sansa is a cunning, scheming bitch who is manipulating people to achieve her own agenda. That is all that I am saying. Can’t you see what kind of person she has become?  It doesn’t matter if Jon has the better claim or others think he could be better king.  All I am trying to say is what kind of person Sansa now is.  She is the new Littlefinger.

[David Selig]

6 minutes ago, Risto said:

Yes, but Jon is better ruler than Dany. We all know it. Even Varys and Tyrion are aware of that. He would be a better King and right now that is no longer an opinion, but a fact.

Is this a joke? Jon Snow is the dumbest person on this show and Varys and Tyrion got their lobotomies seasons ago and are currently just talking nonsense.

[Mystical]

1 minute ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

And yet Sansa is a cunning, scheming bitch who is manipulating people to achieve her own agenda.

Here we go again with these degrading terms used for women when they do something people don't like.

3 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Actually Tyrion's knowing these things can be explained by Tyrion guessing and then Sansa filling in the details only after he figured it out. That's how those sorts of things usually go.

They cut away from the scene, like they have been doing the entire Season. So we can fill in the blanks however we want it. According to David Nutter, Sansa didn't tell and Tyrion figured it out. According to D&D, she pulled a LF. Apparently we are free to choose what the story is. Yet people act is if Sansa outright snitching is canon. The scene cut before anything was revealed, so why do people think they know exactly what happened? We literally weren't shown.

[Hodor's Dragon]

10 minutes ago, Risto said:

Yes, but Jon is better ruler than Dany. We all know it. <snip>

You most assuredly do not speak for me.

[Nightwish]

5 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Here we go again with these degrading terms used for women when they do something people don't like.

They cut away from the scene, like they have been doing the entire Season. So we can fill in the blanks however we want it. According to David Nutter, Sansa didn't tell and Tyrion figured it out. According to D&D, she pulled a LF. Apparently we are free to choose what the story is. Yet people act is if Sansa outright snitching is canon. The scene cut before anything was revealed, so why do people think they know exactly what happened? We literally weren't shown.

LOL so in which part of Sansa's face did Tyrion read about Robert's Rebellion? Was it the left ear? The right brow? The upper lip? Apparently Sansa told the full story because that's only a scene away. 

[MinscS2]

I'm a big Jonerys-shipper, but honestly both of them should really stay the f*ck away from that throne. 

Daenerys is a great conqueror.
Jon is great at leading.
They're both pretty trash at ruling.

It's a common misconception that the reluctant leader is the best leader. 
 

[Runaway Penguin]

Tyrion could have figured out that R+L = J = "no kidnapping" and that the war was based on a wrong premise. But he would have to get the "R+L=J" at least as a starting point. 

Him divining everythng just from what was seen on the show would make him a prophet...

[Lollygag]

Just now, Mystical said:

They cut away from the scene, like they have been doing the entire Season. So we can fill in the blanks however we want it. According to David Nutter, Sansa didn't tell and Tyrion figured it out. According to D&D, she pulled a LF. Apparently we are free to choose what the story is. Yet people act is if Sansa outright snitching is canon. The scene cut before anything was revealed, so why do people think they know exactly what happened? We literally weren't shown.

D&D trolling the viewer and being lazy.

-------------------------------

This forum has a double standard. Sansa is an evil LF-esque plotter when she does things they don't like, but when she does things they do like, it's a different tune. Lots of folks are criticizing Varys because he isn't scheming, but Varys' scheming is ok because he'd do things they'd like. Arya is doing the same thing when she spies with faces, but because they like the results, scheming gets a pass with her. What Arya does is hardly "honorable" and it's certainly scheming, but... hypocrisy, ya know. 

We learned way back in season 1 that scheming isn't bad in itself. Ned got his head cut off and the kingdom was plunged into war because he was too slow to start scheming. Sometimes one's beloved honor turns horrible results. It's a huge theme in the books. 

[Mystical]

9 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

LOL so in which part of Sansa's face did Tyrion read about Robert's Rebellion? Was it the left ear? The right brow? The upper lip? Apparently Sansa told the full story because that's only a scene away.

How would I know how he got it? THEY CUT OFF THE SCENE BEFORE ANYTHING WAS SAID. Jesus Christ, how do you not understand that?

[Lollygag]

4 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

LOL so in which part of Sansa's face did Tyrion read about Robert's Rebellion? Was it the left ear? The right brow? The upper lip? Apparently Sansa told the full story because that's only a scene away. 

Sansa could have told the full story after he guessed. That's often how that goes. Secret revealed followed by exposition filling in all of the details.

[Bear42]

I don't get why people are claiming that Sansa is the new Littlefinger or a master manipulator now.  Sansa is openly hostile and insubordinate, not manipulative.  Littlefinger or Varys made everyone believe they were on their side, that's what made them effective players in the game of thrones.  Sansa has not been cunning or clever in this way, just openly hostile towards allies she later predictably betrays.  The only time she really got the better of someone was because the Branbot 9000 gave her cheat codes, without him she was ready to execute her sister.  I get that the show is trying to portray her as a major player in the game now but it's not very convincing.

 

Also the idea anyone is supposed to believe Sansa didn't tell Tyrion off screen is ridiculous since that's clearly what was portrayed.

-Sansa learns secret known only to five people in the world

-Sansa has discussion with Tyrion about the topic of said secret

-Tyrion now knows secret

Claiming she didn't blab is just delusional.