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Kajjo

Sansa breaking her oath and the Anti-Daenerys conspiracy

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14 hours ago, starklover said:

dany telling jon he cant tell wasnt a good move

Yeah, it was. Still, Jon defied Dany anyway because she told him to swear Bran to secrecy. 

Jon isn't listening to her but pretending he is. He defies her in one scene and in the next he robotically says "You command, we obey."

I still can't get over how the song "Truth" was supposed to be the Jon/Dany "love theme." This is hilarious to me. 

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12 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Yeah, it was. Still, Jon defied Dany anyway because she told him to swear Bran to secrecy. 

Jon isn't listening to her but pretending he is. He defies her in one scene and in the next he robotically says "You command, we obey."

I still can't get over how the song "Truth" was supposed to be the Jon/Dany "love theme." This is hilarious to me. 

truth? never heard of that song.   

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3 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Yeah, it was. Still, Jon defied Dany anyway because she told him to swear Bran to secrecy. 

Jon isn't listening to her but pretending he is. He defies her in one scene and in the next he robotically says "You command, we obey."

I still can't get over how the song "Truth" was supposed to be the Jon/Dany "love theme." This is hilarious to me. 

There’s actually a video on YouTube where the song “Truth” is applied to the Arya/Gendry love scene.

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5 hours ago, starklover said:

truth? never heard of that song.   

It's the Jon/Daenerys (love) theme from S7.
It was always sort of depressing, and now more than ever.
 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/9/2019 at 3:41 PM, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

Sansa bringing in an Army from the Vale against Jon’s wishes is her saving the day, but him bringing in Dany to fight against the WW threat is a terrible choice and Sansa knows better, somehow?

The army of the Vale wasn't against Jon's wishes. He had no idea they were an option. He would have gladly accepted them and the battle of the bastards would have been a lot less bloody for the Starks. Sansa didn't want to let Little Finger help her and had no idea at first how much they were needed. She knows what is best for her house and her people. She knows Dany isn't. She uses the power she has to protect the people she is responsible for. She isn't out conquering other lands, killing people, angrily trying to take back something that she only has a right to by birth, not by actually living there. Dany is a conqueror who conquered people and lands she had no claim to just to build her army, and yet people make Sansa out to be power hungry?  Dany has three kingdoms in Essos, but that isnt enough. She is destroying herself and others to conquer her fathers kingdom. That is power hungry.

Edited by Stark_in_Winterfell

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On 5/9/2019 at 2:35 PM, Kajjo said:

She is in name and action the Lady of Winterfell, as her father was Lord of Winterfell -- he was no king either. 

She is not. Neither by self-acclamation nor in the eyes of her own people. The Northerners made Jon the King in the North, not Sansa. Jon bent the knee to Daenerys. Sansa never expressed the wish to be called queen and Jon was acting as leading commander in the Great War. he is hailed by his people. He is still see as the King somehow. Not Sansa.

Is that so? Really? The Norths owes Daenerys for joining the Great War and Arya makes that very clear in E4. She respects the decision to join forces. They needed the armies and the dragons to win the Great War.

Here I agree. Daenerys was ready to join forces before he bent the knee. Jon did a mistake, thought more with his cock than brain.

Yes. But is breaking her oath to Jon right in your opinions? Ends justifying the means? She swore to him close to a weirwood tree int heir own Godswood, siblings to each other and he made clear how important keeping their words is for him.

To stay true to your word is important and not negotiable for political advantages. Sansa should have kept truthful to Jon.

Well, she could have waited for the Last War to finish and then discuss the issue again within the Stark siblings.

The 7 Kingdoms were separate Kingdoms, not duchies, not baronies, not shires. KINGDOMS. The Lords and Ladies of the 7 Kingdoms were queens and kings. The game of thrones had the battle of the 5 kings. Now the show is finishing with the battle of the 3 queens. Sansa is a defacto queen, that is how the show is presenting it,and  how Martin presents it.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/9/2019 at 2:35 PM, Kajjo said:

She is in name and action the Lady of Winterfell, as her father was Lord of Winterfell -- he was no king either. 

 

This is the 7 kingdoms, not the 7 duchies, baronies, principalities or shires. This IS the symbolic intent of the writers. She is a queen in all but name. The war that takes place next will be  the war of the 3 queens. Just like earlier there was  the war of the 5 kings. Renly was not a king, but he declared himself one. The writers  have set Sansa up as a symbolic queen. This not my opinion, this is in the story. This is the tension that is building. The balance of power right now is between Cersei, Sansa and Dany.

Jon is the rightful King. Sansa knows it. The north will only follow one of theirs, and made Jon king. Now that it's coming out that he is the rightful king, the north and Sansa won't follow anyone but Jon, aka Aeggon or Eggo. Even if Jon were not the rightful king, the north made it clear they were done being ruled by the south. So Sansa committed treason against an invalid queen to lift up the rightful king? Sansa doesn't have to call herself a queen. The only women of higher rank than her in the north are two queens she doesn't acknowledge. She basically says "she's lovely Jon, if you want me to accept her then marry her, otherwise she isn't my queen." What are the odds the north will name Sansa queen? They are done with the 7 kingdoms. Dany can have the 6 kingdoms. The north is a solitary kingdom and the rest of the world can piss off as far as the north is concerned. Is Dany going to die on a hill in the north? Probably not.

Dany knows she is not the highest claimant and yet she insists on having it. Why, it is what she wants. What Sansa wants isn't for herself. What Jon wants isn't for himself.  What Dany wants is for herself. Dany didnt have to conquer the 7 Kingdoms this way. She could have negotiated her way back in with the power she built in Essos. That is not what this story is about. The whole fictitious right of kings is built on conquest and birthright. This all reflects on Shakespeare's "History Plays" where the war of roses is fictionalized.

At first Dany was just surviving and she was a lovable character because she was such a badass. She built a following by mixing toughness with kindness. Now she is up against people who don't want her, people we like. Dany was neccessary for defeating the night king in what appears to be a forever kind of way. Her dragons, her toughness, being unburnt, her rise to power was all to serve the will of the lord of light. She was not born the rule7 kingdoms like she thinks. She was born to be the mother of dragons, the unburnt, the Khalessi, the fire that brought the night king through the wall where he could be killed by Arya, and possibly something else.

Dany's character arc may not land her on the throne unless she marries Jon. Look at the clues of the writing.  Sansa is doing exactly what she was born to do. She also does it better because she learned how to play the game of thrones. It's like Cersei said, "you play the game of thrones or you die." Sansa is playing, Jon isn't. Sansa is forcing his hand. Dany isn't playing the game either. She is trying to break the game. I wouldn't be surprised if Dany and Jon both die bc of that.

Edited by Stark_in_Winterfell

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19 hours ago, Stark_in_Winterfell said:

he is a queen in all but name.

She does not call herself name. The people don't believe her to be queen. She does not act as queen. All this is true for "Lady of Winterfell", though.

I see no reason at all to call her queen at a moment in time where she is not.

I agree with you that she is set up to be Queen of the North, maybe Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. But surely she is no queen at the moment.

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13 hours ago, Kajjo said:

She does not call herself name. The people don't believe her to be queen. She does not act as queen. All this is true for "Lady of Winterfell", though.

I see no reason at all to call her queen at a moment in time where she is not.

I agree with you that she is set up to be Queen of the North, maybe Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. But surely she is no queen at the moment.

It's a symbolic triad that wa set up. Sansa was going to be queen when she married Joffery, but that didn't happen. Sansa is the other powerful woman in the story that ironically has the most secure claim to her position. Cersei's claim is negligible. Danys claim is more firm but still disputed. Then Sansa is the undisputed lady of winterfell until she or Jon (or Bran) gets married. It is a literary device and a comparison of the way in which a woman wielding power is accepted. Cersei is accepted because she is evil and ruthless. Dany is accepted bc she is possibly mad and also ruthless but very likeable. Sansa doesn't fit that. She holds power in the only way that is regarded as acceptable which is through birth (or marriage) and in partnership with male family members. I don't know what is in store for Sansa but I expect her to live and continue to rule the north.

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Sansa has, since the beginning of the series lacked spine. Granted, since season 6 the quality of the writing has fallen faster than lawn dart dropped into Jupiter's atmosphere,  but her Machiavellian, or more appropriately "Balishillian" machinations are in keeping with her unofficial practicum under Littlefinger.  However, Aegon (Jon) had better be appropriately pissed at her betrayal or Benihoff and Weiss will prove themselves to be hacks of the first order who should be stripped naked and paraded down the streets of Belfast with a Septa tolling a bell and crying "Shame, SHAME..." while a mob of revolting fans  toss spoiled food and feces at them. 

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