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24 minutes ago, dannyk65 said:

I'm not confused about their vulnerability; just disappointed with how poorly (in my opinion) the show depicted it.  

Completely agree - if they had taken their time and stretched this season into two seasons, everything wouldn’t feel so rushed and cheapened. As it is, the deaths of the dragons lose their impact in the face of everyone saying COME ON WTF. I always thought Daenerys may lose her dragons and closest friends/allies and be overcome with grief (but not turn “evil” or “Mad Queen”), but the way they’re writing all of this cheapens her storyline and makes this feel far less real. 

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4 minutes ago, dannyk65 said:

I get that she's experienced "the longer I wait, the stronger my enemies become" before but maybe fly them carefully so they don't get blasted outta the sky?

Or don't go to Dragonstone straight away? It should have been discussed in the war council; Cersei was bound to have people waiting and watching for Dany to eventually turn up.

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22 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Still not sure what the relevance is?

Well, for one thing, if the dragon’s fire does that much damage to stone imagine what it would do to the arrow heads, not to mention the wooden shafts. Of course, like in the case of a modern tank, a surprise flank hit might work, but Drogon was charging head on. With all that fire in front of him I don’t think you’d have much chances putting an arrow through. 

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Harrenhall was burned at night I think in part to avoid missile weapons. 

One of the dragons killed at the Storming of the Dragonpit was killed by axe blows. 

The idea that very young dragons are vulnerable is not that big a stretch. 

Hitting them with something as clumsy as a ballista was silly. 

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2 minutes ago, hewman said:

Well, for one thing, if the dragon’s fire does that much damage to stone imagine what it would do to the arrow heads, not to mention the wooden shafts. Of course, like in the case of a modern tank, a surprise flank hit might work, but Drogon was charging head on. With all that fire in front of him I don’t think you’d have much chances putting an arrow through. 

The ballistas were on the bows, those ships should have been toasted from behind. 

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Posted (edited)

Rhaegal was wounded and barely could take flight, his scales bitten off by Viserion, so he was vulnerable to bolts ... They could have handled it differently like Euron raining bolt after bolt and eventually hitting him ... 

Also i still can’t understand why after Bronn hit Drogon, they didn’t make an armor for his belly ?? I was hoping Gendry will make an armor and saddle for Drogon but they decided to skip that.

Something like this: Aegon_on_Balerion.jpg

Edited by GeorgeIAF

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, ferrelhadley said:

The ballistas were on the bows, those ships should have been toasted from behind. 

True! You’re right. And possibly during the night. And first thing after finding out about Euron’s fleet.  Gain naval superiority before moving your troops by sea.

Edited by hewman

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I don't really agree tbh. It's not like the two dragons were knocked off by a pebble shot from a slingshot. One was killed by a super powerful ice spear and the other one by several massive "arrows". I don't think it was too easy.

If there is a problem with dragons, it's the one that they are very underused in the battles and overall strategy imo.

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7 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Also i still can’t understand why after Bronn hit Drogon, they didn’t make an armor for his belly ??

Because s\he has to fly with a person on their back. If they Valyrians did not do it its unlikely it could be done. 

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8 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

I don't really agree tbh. It's not like the two dragons were knocked off by a pebble shot from a slingshot. One was killed by a super powerful ice spear and the other one by several massive "arrows". I don't think it was too easy.

If there is a problem with dragons, it's the one that they are very underused in the battles and overall strategy imo.

If they stuck with the books, the scales on the dragons of that size would have been enough to stop those bolts. And maybe they did think of that, but it's those scorpions that are ridiculously powerful. They can literally rip through a ship and sink it. If a weird time warp happened, and an 18th century British flotilla dropped in Blackwater's Bay, it would be just as screwed, despite its own firepower.

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1 hour ago, ferrelhadley said:

Because s\he has to fly with a person on their back. If they Valyrians did not do it its unlikely it could be done. 

But if you watch fanmade photos of Balerion he has armor and saddle, and i think i’ve read in the history of ice and fire about it.

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If they weren't going to level up their power, they should've never made the show-dragons so big. Now there's a discrepancy between how large the show-dragons are and how powerful they can be for the endgame, since the book-dragons will likely never reach that size.

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6 hours ago, Wagshell said:

A new weapon? It's really just a bigger crossbow. No newer technology really.

Crossbows don't all use the same propulsion technology.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Wagshell said:

I have to agree. Everyone in history easily beaten by dragons. Arrows just bounce off them. Nobody until Qyburn, in all of those years and battles thought to say "You know, we could just make a bigger crossbow, that'll probably do it."

I wouldn't say he invented a ballista. The Dornish had ballistas early in the Targaryen rule when one was used to shoot down Meraxes, dragon of Rhaenys. In the show, the Night's Watch had a ballista which they used to kill Dongo, the giant with the long grey beard. 

Edited by Angel Eyes

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Don't their scales grow tougher with age?, plus Rhaegal was injured already, what was stupid was how they managed to hit him from that distance, I'm not convinced one of those bolts would even have that kind of range, much less to be able to pierce a drgons scales at it.

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The idea of a ballista is not far-fetched at all, but the idea of a ballista that could track moving targets is complete nonsense.

To move its aim up and down it would have to be laboriously cranked, perhaps by a team of horses (or men). To move its aim from side to side it has to be physically moved, and I don't think these wheels have a lot of "turn" in them, so you have to move it back and forth a few times to affect any significant move to the side.

I suppose it's theoretically possible you could mount one on some kind of giant turntable, but I'm not sure if they even had that sort of technology then, and if they did, then building even one would be an immense undertaking. Plus, even if possible, the turntable would only work for side-to-side tracking. Realistically, it couldn't do up-and-down.

Also it probably takes 90 seconds or so to load one of those humongous bolts.

Also, the idea of producing that number of them in a short period of time is an additional helping of complete nonsense.

Basically they would be doing good to have 2 or 3. All you can do is point it at a likely section of sky, hope that a dragon flies there, pull the trigger at the exact right time (bearing in mind that this is not something it would've been possible to practice) and then hope the dragon doesn't dodge.

It gets even more difficult to shoot accurately from a ship at sea.

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The scorpion used by Euron had a X-style bow. So that's another thing this show took from Jackson's LOTR/Hobbit films.

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4 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

The scorpion used by Euron had a X-style bow. So that's another thing this show took from Jackson's LOTR/Hobbit films.

Where was a scorpion used in Lotr? 

 

Anyway, I do agree that both Rhaegal and Viserion went down rather quickly and easily. My issue with this is the following: 

1. It’s terribly anticlimactic, unbalanced and downright pathetic that Euron Greyjoy is on the same level of deadliness as the Night King. It’s also, if not more anticlimactic that dragons can’t kill the Night King (Drogon) and they can’t even kill each other (Rhaegal and Viserion).This means that Euron Greyjoy and Arya Stark are more dangerous than a damn dragon.  The poor things are basically big fat useless lizards whose only ability is attacking sheep and stray children, or sometimes burning a few enemy lines when the enemy is the bigger bad, so it’s not “immoral” for them to get involved in the battle. 

2. There’s this whole “problem” of the big bad dragons that will make the small folk tremble with fear because they are so deadly. These dragons came over to Westeros, say 6 months ago, two thirds of them are out. With the above mentioned aspects, this makes the whole dragon concern rather illegitimate. 

3. These things were and are supposed to be the weapon against approaching death and the greatest advantage of Daenerys. The NK took down one the first ten minutes of meeting them, Euron did the same. The one and only time a dragon served its purpose in Daenerys’s conquest of Westeros was the loot train attack. 

4. The fact that Viserion and Rhaegal went down in 5 minutes makes it seem like Drogon has plot armor. He was attacked and injured multiple times and he was fine. And that was realistic, because he is a damn dragon. But with his brothers being so vulnerable and weak, by the laws of relativity poor Drogon has become the Mary Sue of the litter. 

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Posted (edited)

Doesn't matter how big or strong the dragons are when they are killed from a mile away, out of line of sight, shot to death by ballistae mounted on rocking boats that should've been spotted by them in the first place. 

Make them twice as big and give them armor, and Rhaegal would've been hit in the eye.

Nothing saves you from death when the plot demands it...

At least Viserion wasn't killed by a fucking Disney-pirate, and his death served a purpose, in addition to furthering the plot, while at the same time being quite realistic.

Rhaegal's death however, was extremely anti-climactic and stupid, all in one. I have absolutely nothing good to say about it.
It can very well be one of the lowest points of the entire show for me. 

Edited by MinscS2

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