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10 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

Where was a scorpion used in Lotr? 

It was in the Hobbit films.

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1 minute ago, Khal Ivo said:

What to me was even more unbelievable was how the scorpion just dismantled those ships to shreds. Were they made of matchsticks?

Makes you wonder how far those bloody scorpions can fire and how fast the ironborn kept reloading them... oh god... 

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1 minute ago, Corvinus said:

It was in the Hobbit films.

Oh the Smaug one, okay. I thought I misremembered something. 

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And Euron and his folk must be really stupid. Their aim is absolutely fantastic, I mean they didn't hit Rhaegal once, but like  4-5 times. I wonder why they didn't aim for the dragon carrying the bloody queen on his back? He was right there next to the one they killed.

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Yeah, if look at the distance between the fleets when Euron opens fire, and then you look at where Dany and her small troop of Unsullied are relative to the walls, they were well within range.

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I'll be honest here, I never liked the concept of dragons in ASOIAF/GOT, I always thought GRRM only added them to make Dany relevant because without dragons she would have been done after Khal Drogo's death with no one to follow/support her;

I'm not too bothered by their portrayal in the show, I do dislike how Rhaegal died though, It's pretty ridiculous for him to get shot at sea, by a fleet he and Dany should've seen coming from miles away

I also get that some are disappointed by how easy it was for Cersei to come up with a way to kill dragons but then again the Night King killed a Dragon with the same kind of weapon and Dragons have been killed before.

 

 

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They have done what they needed to do to make the battle look like there was a point to it. 

The final battle must always be fought at an overwhelming disadvantage so you can't let Danny have two nuclear weapons. It is the same problem that Dr Who had with K9: just too damn powerful.

Danny will only be able to use Drogon from a very high altitude to fly above the balistas.

As for the original invasion, I thought the idea was that the original invasion was over in a few days or weeks and so Westeros never knew what hit it. There was no time to build scorpions or other dragon killer weapons.

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1 minute ago, tallTale said:

Since we're down to one dragon, do you all think that's it for the dragons?

Or did Drogon and Rhaegal leave a clutch of eggs somewhere?

I've always expected that ultimately, all the dragons would perish - they actually have to die in order for there to be somewhat of a happy ending. 
(Note: The dragons. Not necessarily their riders.)

Jon and Daenerys co-ruling with a new-born baby in their arms, is one thing. Add large dragons to the mix, that live longer than humans, and you're essentially back to square one, since you never now if they child will be a good ruler or not. If said ruler turns out evil, and he has dragons at his (or her) disposal... *shudders*

With that said, if Daenerys dies, I'm pretty sure Drogon dies. 

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8 hours ago, elanmorin said:

Actually untrue: Dorne was able to kill a dragon using a scorpion (lucky shot) and this caused them to stave off the Targaryen's invasion for example. The problem with what happened in #08-04 is not that those ballistas were able to kill a dragon, the problem is a fleet was able to sneak up on him and his brother and hit him while in the air.

Yes but that was a lucky shot, whereas Rhaegal is down in one shot to the chest/belly, which in a lot of fantasy tends to be the most heavily armored part of a dragon. Also in S7 Drogon was brought down to the ground with one shot from a scorpion, so clearly scorpions bring dragons to the ground at least, if not kill them, which is making them far too weak.

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a fleet was able to sneak up on him and his brother and hit him while in the air.

Although I agree with you that that is completely ridiculous, especially since Dany was flying pretty high up, and would have seen the Iron Fleet, even if they were on the other side of Dragonstone.

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8 hours ago, Stormking902 said:

D and D butchered dragons to the point they are laughable ........ Huge fail IMO. 

Imagine Aegon taking Harrenhal with these dragons hahaha. 

 

You’re absolutely right. Dragons are immune to scorpion rounds unless they pierce the eye into brain.

Plus these weapons are far too accurate and rapid firing over an absurd range. You should not be able to hit a moving target in the air. It was hard enough to shoot down biplanes with machine guns and explosive shells; I doubt any medieval tech could build an anti aircraft gun.

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44 minutes ago, Khal Ivo said:

What to me was even more unbelievable was how the scorpion just dismantled those ships to shreds. Were they made of matchsticks?

To be fair, they are just wooden ships with planks put together, it does kind of make sense that ballistas of that size could rip through the hull

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3 minutes ago, Khal Lhevon said:

To be fair, they are just wooden ships with planks put together, it does kind of make sense that ballistas of that size could rip through the hull

No it doesn't, and especially not at that range.
They are basllistae, not gunpowder cannons.

Qyburn has redefined what warfare looks like in Westeros.
Fuck the dragons, give me a handful of ballistae instead.

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1 minute ago, MinscS2 said:

 No it doesn't, and especially not at that range.
 They are basllistae, not gunpowder cannons.

Qyburn has redefined what warfare looks like in Westeros.
Fuck the dragons, give me a handful of ballistae instead.

Yeah I guess. It does really annoy me that the ballistae have just ruined the value of dragons, and while it is a bad story choice, the idea of Rhaegal falling to drown isn't unprecedented, when Drogon was hit in s7 he fell to the ground, so maybe we should assume that Rhaegal wasn't dead falling, but died from drowning in the water

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4 minutes ago, Khal Lhevon said:

To be fair, they are just wooden ships with planks put together, it does kind of make sense that ballistas of that size could rip through the hull

They would do some damage, but not rip the ship to pieces and certainly not sink it, unless they managed rip through under the water line (which they probably couldn't, even gunpowder cannons had trouble doing that easily. Apparently a Spanish galleon loaded with heavy cannons has nothing on Euron's ballista boats.

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Just now, Khal Ivo said:

They would do some damage, but not rip the ship to pieces and certainly not sink it, unless they managed rip through under the water line (which they probably couldn't, even gunpowder cannons had trouble doing that easily. Apparently a Spanish galleon loaded with heavy cannons has nothing on Euron's ballista boats.

They could probably make a whole in the hull, but yeah I do get what you mean when you say its ridiculous to rip through the ship like that

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The Romans were big on using ballistae, but they were basically still used against infantry. Their advantage was the great range they had, compared to bows, and that no matter how armored a soldier, he was still dead when taking a hit to the torso. It could potentially take out a few soldiers in a tight formation, but that's it. At best, it could punch a small hole in the hull of a ship.

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I'm ok with the dragons not being the ultimate trump card and Dany having to use some sort of strategy. Reconnaissance on her part would be a nice start.

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50 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

The Romans were big on using ballistae, but they were basically still used against infantry. Their advantage was the great range they had, compared to bows, and that no matter how armored a soldier, he was still dead when taking a hit to the torso. It could potentially take out a few soldiers in a tight formation, but that's it. At best, it could punch a small hole in the hull of a ship.

Good info!  The ballistae/scorpions depicted were approximately the same size as what the Romans were using (maybe a bit bigger).  But they were shown firing much larger bolts, much further, and still with great accuracy at that ridiculously long range:rolleyes:

And, setting aside for a moment Urine's seeming ability to hide his fleet behind a rock and jump out to ambush unsuspecting victims, I think a pretty easy way to deal with ship-mounted ballistae would be to simply fly dragons high above them, out of range (if there is such a thing), and drop stones.:dunno: 

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If a ballista or two could demolish ships' hulls and decks that efficiently, nobody would've bothered with cannons because the lighter, cheaper, easier to use and manufacture giant xbows would be far more appealing.

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