Gendry (potential spoilers)

[Dc Castillo]

So, does anybody else think they’ll reveal Gendry as Cersei’s son?  I’m referring to that scene in season 1 with Cersei and Catlin Stark where Cersei says she had a stillborn child by Robert.  A lot of people think Cersei actually gave the baby away and told Robert it had died, meaning that Gendry was that baby.

 

When Dany mentioned that Gendry was Roberts son (before naming him lord of storms end), they immediately cut to Jaime, who looked like he was piecing information together.  Coulda just been that he thought Joffrey killed all of Roberts bastards, but to me, it seemed a little bit more than that.

[Bradam]

doubtful, and pointless now he got legitimized anyways.  

interested to know who is running storms end now, and if they will just hand Gendry the keys if/when he shows up.   Assuming said person has been running the place since stannis/renly left, will they just take Gendry on his word and kneel to him?

[Hippocras]

19 minutes ago, Bradam said:

doubtful, and pointless now he got legitimized anyways.  

interested to know who is running storms end now, and if they will just hand Gendry the keys if/when he shows up.   Assuming said person has been running the place since stannis/renly left, will they just take Gendry on his word and kneel to him?

I guess Davos is pretty key to Gendry getting accepted there, if that is even going to be part of the story (doubtful).

GENDRY IS NOT CERSEI'S CHILD. I dislike that theory SOOOOO much. The show did NOT invent the detail about a baby that died (doesn't exist in the books) to create endgame drama, they only did it to humanize Cersei and help show how Cersei uses truths to manipulate people - in that case Catelyn Stark. It was never meant to come up again!

[Hippocras]

Now, that over with speculating about Gendry's future is kind of a wide open free for all. I think it is looking quite possible actually that he will become King, Arya Queen even though neither of them want that for themselves. They do want each other in spite of Arya turning down his proposal.

I think they might be forced into accepting these roles because no one is left. Dany will die, Jon will die, Cersei will die, all without heirs. Gendry is the only remaining character with a claim. And given Jaime's fascinated look when he heard who Gendry was, Jaime may well play a role in making sure Gendry is accepted.

[Bradam]

I had thought Jamie's look was more surprise that Roberts bastard was right in front of him the whole time and he never guessed. 

[Euron III Greyjoy]

God I hope not. It would feel like such an arsepull. 

[Hippocras]

6 hours ago, Bradam said:

I had thought Jamie's look was more surprise that Roberts bastard was right in front of him the whole time and he never guessed. 

Well yes, he was very surprised, but then he also looked like he was thinking about what to DO with the information. It wasn't just surprise, but a surprise he felt the need to act on in some way.

[nyser1]

Gendry received the plot armour of becoming LP of the Stormlands. All we need now is one for the reach (seriously hope it is not Bronn).

[sweetsunray]

2 minutes ago, nyser1 said:

Gendry received the plot armour of becoming LP of the Stormlands. All we need now is one for the reach (seriously hope it is not Bronn).

Won't be Bronn, because if Jaime gets himself killed, and Tyrion doesn't end up in a position to hand a castle to him, then Bronn gets nothing. Jaime was actually disgusted by the idea of Bronn getting Highgarden. With the "traitorous" talk and the whole weird stuff at that gate with Cersei, Tyrion pretty much shouting out that Cersei's NOT a MONSTER to all the citizens she got locked behind the gates, and almost seeming to give Cersei a nod before she orders Missandei's beheading to go through, obviously intending to provoke Dany into going dracarys on KL (when she could have killed that tidbit of army outside her walls in no time wiht those scorpions, including Drogon), I'm going for Tyrion helping Cersei to set up Dany as "mad queen who burns them all", and it coming out.

[nyser1]

10 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Won't be Bronn, because if Jaime gets himself killed, and Tyrion doesn't end up in a position to hand a castle to him, then Bronn gets nothing. Jaime was actually disgusted by the idea of Bronn getting Highgarden. With the "traitorous" talk and the whole weird stuff at that gate with Cersei, Tyrion pretty much shouting out that Cersei's NOT a MONSTER to all the citizens she got locked behind the gates, and almost seeming to give Cersei a nod before she orders Missandei's beheading to go through, obviously intending to provoke Dany into going dracarys on KL (when she could have killed that tidbit of army outside her walls in no time wiht those scorpions, including Drogon), I'm going for Tyrion helping Cersei to set up Dany as "mad queen who burns them all", and it coming out.

This would be interesting, but I cannot fathom Tyrion and Cersei on the same side after the trial.

[sweetsunray]

4 minutes ago, nyser1 said:

This would be interesting, but I cannot fathom Tyrion and Cersei on the same side after the trial.

Book Tyrion wouldn't, but show Tyrion is an altogether different character who doesn't hate his sister, actually believing she is a good lioness mother to her children and loves them. That's not to say that show-Tyrion doesn't side against Cersei after the trial, but his hatred in the show is almost entirely directed towards Tywin, not Cersei.

He initially does believe in Dany and is loyal to her, because he's in love with her. Once at Dragonstone, he voluntarily tries to come up with a tactic of capitulation through starving KL as well as taking CR (for himself). He tries to argue against Dany from going dracarys on the loot train from Highgarden and we witness how much he hopes at least his brother survives. And when Dany has the tactical advantage to torch KL, he sets up a meeting with Jaime to organise a treaty. Meanwhile it becomes more obvious that Dany would never fall for him. They have the treaty negotiation and Tyrion tries to talk with Cersei, coming to believe she's pregnant. Part of the conversation is cut-off after this.

I think Tyrion and Cersei made an agreement here, though an agreement where Cersei also promises Tyrion she will send her army North to fight for the living against the AotD. This is the reason why Tyrion later asks Jaime: the pregnancy is true at least yes? For a moment here, Tyrion is inquiring whether Cersei played him completely. So, he did expect a Lannister army to be there.

Sansa points out she knows that Tyrion has divided loyalties. Missandei takes it as - between Sansa and Dany, but Sansa imo means something else - he serves his queen, but ultimately always his family too. He wants his brother and the child of his sister to live. They survive the NK's attack and so next on the agenda is Dany taking KL back. One of the first things Tyrion attempts to do is have Jaime hook up with Brienne, so that his brother will stay away as far as possible from KL.

Notice Tyrion's facial reaction when Dany says they will remove Cersei "root and stem". He says "the plan is to remove her without destroying KL", but it is the "root and stem" he emotionally responds to. He does not want Cersei to be killed, just as he did not Jaime killed during the Field of Fire.

The Bronn scene is also interesting in that regard. For some weird reason Tyrion expects Bronn to have remained South with Cersei, despite the fact that Bronn served both him and Jaime and never trusted Cersei. Bronn throws a parallel line to Jaime-Cersei when he enters the scene talking about "I knew you're fucking her. Pair of blonde crops - must be like looking in the mirror", which is what Cersei-Jaime is all about, not Jaime-Brienne. He also says he figured Cersei was good as dead once those dragons showed up, but he could take out Dany's Hand and some of her officers are picked off one by one, which actually happens to Dany by the end of the episode.

Then he learns that Jon is Aegon Targaryen, son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. It's clear that this does not sway Tyrion to switch allegiance to the Stargaryen, but he does see it as an issue when it comes to Dany's allies. This knowledge makes the North a potential rebel once again against Dany, for all the reasons that Varys points out. He tells Varys. Dany loses her dragon. Missandei gets taken and Varys makes clear he's jumping ship to Jon. Incidentally, Tyion literally jumped "ship" in this episode, and after Varys told Tyrion he will support Jon and is ready to throw Dany under the proverbial bus, that's imo the moment that Tyrion decides to go back to Cersei's side.

In that meeting during the wight-exposition, I think Cersei offered to welcome him back if he helped to ensure that lords and people would be horrified at having Dany for a queen. He stayed loyal to Dany as his queen until the near end of this episode, and his loyalty for his family went no further than ensuring their survival only. But Cersei has the better cards now and is laying out a trap for Dany, and Dany is bent to walk right into it. And Tyrion can't stop it from happening. That's why he's so sad imo during his last conversation with Varys. He knows Cersei will win her propaganda war. What Bronn foretold is coming true. And Tyrion will do what needs to be done to survive it and be welcomed back by Cersei if she manages to survive.

During the parlay with Qyburn, Cersei surveyes Tyrion as if this is the moment where Tyrion proves himself loyal to his family or to Dany, whether he is what he claims to be to her, or what she always believed him to be - the man who wanted her children and her dead. She signals Tyrion still has a chance to prove his loyalty to the Lannisters when she has the bowmen retreat their bows. And then for some inexpicable reason he starts to declare Cersei to not be a monster, testifying she always loved her children for all to hear. Tyrion repeats to her that her life doesn't have to end nor her baby's. Cersei sighs with relief almost. This was a message imo between them that he will personally make sure Cersei will make it out alive of the city. She even slightly smiles, before she gives the go ahead to the Mountain to kill Missandei.

It is quite clear that all Cersei wanted to do was provoke Dany into burning the keep and all the people in it, so that the rest of the 7 kingdoms would be horrified of Dany. Cersei is doing a Ramsay using Missandei the same way that Ramsay used Rickon to provoke Jon. But Cersei was not sure whether Tyrion would not hound her after. Tyrion went along with the propaganda plan and assured her he would help her live, no matter what. And so he jumped ship.

[anjulibai]

No.

[Anthony Pirtle]

No point. Daenerys has already legitimized him, which makes him Robert's heir to the Stormlands but takes him out of the line of succession. Being Cersei's son would only matter if Cersei wins the war instead of Daenerys, which isn't going to happen, because this show doesn't have another season left where her secret son presses his claim and leads another rebellion against her.

[Kajjo]

On 5/6/2019 at 3:27 PM, Bradam said:

interested to know who is running storms end now, and if they will just hand Gendry the keys if/when he shows up.   Assuming said person has been running the place since stannis/renly left, will they just take Gendry on his word and kneel to him?

A maester will send a raven and that is settled.

[Bradam]

Current guy in charge of Storms End could be a Cersi loyalist for all we know though  =0

[darmody]

On 5/6/2019 at 7:29 AM, Dc Castillo said:

So, does anybody else think they’ll reveal Gendry as Cersei’s son?  I’m referring to that scene in season 1 with Cersei and Catlin Stark where Cersei says she had a stillborn child by Robert.  A lot of people think Cersei actually gave the baby away and told Robert it had died, meaning that Gendry was that baby.

 

When Dany mentioned that Gendry was Roberts son (before naming him lord of storms end), they immediately cut to Jaime, who looked like he was piecing information together.  Coulda just been that he thought Joffrey killed all of Roberts bastards, but to me, it seemed a little bit more than that.

But why? Why would Cersei do that? She liked Robert at that point, didn't she? Was attracted to his violent displays of rage at the tragedy of dying baby and whatnot?

Also, Jaime could have been just generally surprised and thinking about whether Gendry looked like daddy. If he was piecing things together, why on earth would he jump to the conclusion that his sister faked her baby's death without telling him?

[darmody]

On 5/6/2019 at 8:51 AM, Hippocras said:

in that case Catelyn Stark. It was never meant to come up again!

It did come up again, and in what I believe was an honest conversation between Cersei and Robert. It was a pivotal event in their marriage and represented a time when she might have loved him again, but Robert only ever loved Jon's mommy. 

[Timm]

Maybe Jaime is off to tell his sister that one of her children lives still.

And then kill her.

Creatively it would make sense etc.