Daenerys and Jon are over

[Arya's Sideboob]

3 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

It will be Bran. Varys wants some one who does not want to rule. 

I think in order of likelihood I'd go Bran first, Sansa 2nd (think she just wants to rule the North), Arya 3rd (think she just fades away from everyone), Gendry 4th.

2 minutes ago, divica said:

Danny almost look like viserys when she became accepted by the dothriaki. It is just weird... 

 

And Jon is a castle raised boy. He would be miserable with the wildlings...

He would be happier in Winterfell as long as he can kick Sansa out of there. She is like poison

Jon wants to be free.  No place more free than beyond the wall now with the NK gone.

[Kajjo]

1 hour ago, Skills said:

Arya is already too much of a hero.  Meryn Trant, the entire Freys, Littlefinger, NK.

No, not at all. I cannot follow your list.

Killing Meryn Trant didn't make her a hero, just a killing teenager, out of revenge. Nothing heroic there. She became a fine assassin, but that has nothing to do with being a hero. Taking revenge on the Freys was a skilled assassination using her Faceless Men's skills, again not heroic, but justified revenge. Executing Littlefinger on behalf of Sansa and her death sentence makes Arya in that one case a simple executioners. No one thinks of executioners to be heroes. 

Killing the Nightking made her der Hero of Westeros for all times to come.

She continues on her road of revenge, with Cersei and the Mountain being still on her list, and both rightly so. She now rides together with the Hound toward King's Landing and we will see how it works out. My bet is still on Arya killing the Mountain and Jaime killing Cersei.

Further killings are not "over heroic". Heroic actions are not simply defined by killings, but by circumstances. In the case of the Nightking she took highest risks for the Greater Good, she risked her life. That was heroic. Her other killings were not. 

[a girl knows nothing]

I think they both still have strong feelings for one another but will not end up together, married or otherwise. Dany is too focused on revenge and getting the throne she has sacrificed so much for, and Jon is and always has been too focused on being honorable and "doing the right thing" that he seems to have already let the romance go - as he did with Ygritte. 

In regards to the possibility of Jon killing Dany, I think he would only do that if she killed (probably inadvertently) someone he loved. Most likely would be Arya since she's headed down to KL. I don't know if he could bring himself to kill her just to save KL. He does seem to still have strong feelings for her. Maybe if Varys starts whispering in his ear, but I think Dany is going to execute Varys rather soon - he's clearly disloyal and ready to commit treason and Dany is going to find out and burn him alive as she promised. 

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

11 minutes ago, divica said:

Danny almost look like viserys when she became accepted by the dothriaki. It is just weird... 

 

And Jon is a castle raised boy. He would be miserable with the wildlings...

He would be happier in Winterfell as long as he can kick Sansa out of there. She is like poison

And yet he told Tormund that he wished he was going with him up North.  I took that scene as possible foreshadowing.

[divica]

Just now, TheFirstofHerName said:

And yet he told Tormund that he wished he was going with him up North.  I took that scene as possible foreshadowing.

I think it is because they are simple people. They don t play games... Like the north didn t play games in Ned's time. 

I would prefer that Jon makes the north behave with honor and general goodness like Ned did. I just can see Sansa do this... 

[lakin1013]

1 hour ago, Greenmonsterff said:

....... Despite her CLEARLY giving him this ultimatum, he ignores it with his family moments later. I do not think Dany will forgive Jon for this. And with her recent run of bad fortune (losing Viserion, Jorah, half of her Unsullied and Dothraki, Rhaegal, Missandei) I think she’s gonna burn it all to the ground, including Jon, or die trying. 

But there is an opposite side of this argument.  Shouldn't Dany have known how close Jon was to his family?  If she knew him at all (and we are to believe she does) she would know that Jon does not lie, Jon honors truth, and Jon loves his family.  During the Battle of the Bastards, most folks insulted Jon for his stupidity, but his riding to Rickon simply shows how much he loves his family.  

Dany shows a real inability to learn, a desire to have her own way no matter what, and perhaps Jon will never forgive her.  In fact, when Jon turns away from her, Dany has lost him and she realizes she cannot have what she wants.

[Kajjo]

1 minute ago, divica said:

I would prefer that Jon makes the north behave with honor and general goodness like Ned did. I just can see Sansa do this... 

Yes and yes. 

Sansa of E4 is different than we till now thought she might be. Sansa broke an oath and is dishonorable. She plays games and breaks with Stark traditions. Weird and sad.

[LadyBlackwater]

I took note in the beginning of the episode that ghost wasn’t standing next to Jon, but with the wildlings. I had almost forgotten that tidbit until he sent ghost north. Ghost being ghosted.

[LadyBlackwater]

2 hours ago, Greenmonsterff said:

In the scene at the fireplace after the party, Dany pleads with Jon to keep his identity secret. He tells her she is his queen, and she will be his no matter what. But, surprisingly, Dany has the foresight to know that he is wrong and how telling anyone will lead to everyone knowing and the implications are dire when the truth comes out. Despite her CLEARLY giving him this ultimatum, he ignores it with his family moments later. I do not think Dany will forgive Jon for this. And with her recent run of bad fortune (losing Viserion, Jorah, half of her Unsullied and Dothraki, Rhaegal, Missandei) I think she’s gonna burn it all to the ground, including Jon, or die trying. 

Varys said it right. If a handful of people know, it’s not a secret. It’s information.

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

2 minutes ago, divica said:

I think it is because they are simple people. They don t play games... Like the north didn t play games in Ned's time. 

I would prefer that Jon makes the north behave with honor and general goodness like Ned did. I just can see Sansa do this... 

Well....Sansa proved she had no honor last night.  Ned kept a promise for 18 years and Sansa kept it for not even a day.  She showed more concern for the soldiers when Dany didn’t but Sansa is a scheming bitch too.  She wants the Iron Throne for herself.

[Rose of Red Lake]

19 minutes ago, divica said:

If they were married it wouldn t be a prob... 

Politically, maybe, but personally...its disaster. Dany is acting like an abuser, trying to control a personal side to him and not letting him share it with his family. 

[Panther2000]

1 hour ago, Greenmonsterff said:

Jon and Sansa might be over as well. She swore to keep it secret and then almost immediately broke that promise. Jon will know who betrayed his trust. 

I agree,  I can see at the end of the day ( if he Lives) that he goes back North and Lives with the Free Folk.  & Ghost shows up.  That would make a great ending. 

[Kajjo]

1 minute ago, LadyBlackwater said:

Varys said it right. If a handful of people know, it’s not a secret. It’s information.

That's right.

If you want to keep a secret, you just shut up. You don't tell other people and let them swear. The show depicts this very realistically.

[Nerevanin]

Yes and I'm happy that it is that way.

41 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Varys neatly explained why a Jon/Dany marriage wouldnt work. She doesnt want an equal. They want this to be a succession struggle, clearly. And from a writers' perspective, maybe they dont want Jon in a toxic relationship like he's in right now.

Exactly. Dany wants to be the queen. THE QUEEN. Not consort queen or some equal-to-king-queen. She wouldn't have a problem with marrying Jon Snow, the bastard boy who controls the North. But she doesn't want to marry an equal and she certainly doesn't want to marry someone stronger than she is (and Jon is stronger than her).

 

27 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

I was hoping she would be happy that Jon is a Targ but she loves the Iron Throne more than him.  Extremely disappointed in her and anyone scheming to get the Iron Throne.  Thank God it will be over in 2 weeks.  I just hope Jon can join Tormund and Ghost beyond the Wall. He would be happier with them.

Maybe disappointing but honestly I like it more that the cliché "yeah, I worked for my throne for 7 seasons but I will give it up just because I love you". The fact she prefers the throne over Jon seemed more consistent with Dany's character.

[Kajjo]

1 minute ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

Sansa proved she had no honor last night.  Ned kept a promise for 18 years

Sansa kept THE SAME SECRET all his live, 18 years. 

And Sansa couldn't keep exactly this secret not even a few hours.

Too bad.

[valgrel]

They are pushing so hard to mad Dany that I suspect an incoming twist. Jon could be the one who would be killed in the battle, and then she'll realize how wrong she was and will try to be as good as a queen as he would have as king. 

One more thing to add is that at this point, there will be no Starks and no Targs in the future if she died without child. (still hope for Baratheons, thxs to her). Seems weird, even for a bittersweet ending.

[King Jon Snow Stark]

1 minute ago, valgrel said:

They are pushing so hard to mad Dany that I suspect an incoming twist. Jon could be the one who would be killed in the battle, and then she'll realize how wrong she was and will try to be as good as a queen as he would have as king. 

One more thing to add is that at this point, there will be no Starks and no Targs in the future if she died without child. (still hope for Baratheons, thxs to her). Seems weird, even for a bittersweet ending.

There will be Starks or descendants of Starks. Both Arya and Sansa can have children if they want. And if Jon goes North he may have children as well. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

10 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Sansa kept THE SAME SECRET all his live, 18 years. 

And Sansa couldn't keep exactly this secret not even a few hours.

Too bad.

She's doing it to save him from Dany. Him with her bothers her A LOT. She sees Dany as Jon's Joffrey. He's either got to placate her non-stop out of fear, or he could just rule with his sister-cousins. He's coming back to the Starks. Its just delayed gratification right now because he thinks so little of himself, he doesn't even want Gilly and Sam to name a child after him (probably pointing to guilt he's feeling about who he is). But the pack survives...they have to save Jon. Sansa is fighting for him.

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

She's doing it to save him from Dany. Him with her bothers her A LOT. She sees Dany as Jon's Joffrey. He's either got to placate her non-stop out of fear, or he could just rule with his sister-cousins. He's coming back to the Starks. Its just delayed gratification right now because he thinks so little if himself, he doesn't even want Gilly and Sam to name a child after him (probably pointing to guilt he's feeling about who he is). But the pack survives...they have to save Jon. Sansa is fighting for him.

So, do you still think the end game is Jon and Sansa married?

[Rose of Red Lake]

14 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

So, do you still think the end game is Jon and Sansa married?

More than ever now.