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Discussing Jaime and Brienne

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So how do you guys feel about the relationship between Jaime and Brienne after this episode?

I personally predicted long ago that they would fall in love and that they would end up at this point eventually (although I personally expected it to happen earlier) and I always rooted for Brienne+Jaime to actually happen, so I'm happy. I like that and imo it doesn't felt forced or anything. My next prediction is that Jaime will die and Brienne will find out she is pregnant (in fact I predicted Jaime to die and Brienne to have his child a long ago too).

The only thing I'm not happy about is that the progress in their relationship (read as: they had sex) was mostly caused by Tyrion's stupid joke.

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I'm not thrilled with it. I personally don't like adding romantic subplots into stories just for the sake of having them and I feel like that's what this was. Same with Arya and Gendry. I liked Jaime and Brienne better as friends and comrades in arms with a mutual crush that was never going to be realized. Jaime going back to Cersei yet again and Brienne begging him not to could have been accomplished without the love interest. Good friends don't want good friends to die for a stupid cause either.

I don't think Brienne is going to be pregnant, or at least I sincerely hope she's not. I mean how many pregnancies (or suspected pregnancies) can one show support!

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Hate it. It felt like bad fan fiction since the start.

They (D&D) appear to need Jamie to end his arc with Cersei or something else in King's Landing and they just kept finding ways for him to kill time. Jamie loves Cersei, then doesn't, then does, then doesn't, now does. It is getting annoying. It's like D&D's own Meereenese Knot and they didn't handle it great.

Why does Brianne even need a love interest? She is a strong, independent woman who loved Renley and is now focused on being the best knight in the seven kingdoms. The whole love interest felt so forced. They should have stayed as knights who respected each other.

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While I support the Jaime and Brienne romance, I don't like how it was handled.  They hooked them up only to tear them apart.  It came across that Jaime got really drunk and horny.  But when morning came he realized that he didn't want to do that again, and so he had to come up with an excuse to run off because he didn't want to be with Brienne anymore. 

It's worse, but in the same vein, than what they did with the Arya and Gendry pairing.  Which was Arya wanted a booty call and then had to explain to Gendry that she didn't actually want to be with him.

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Awkward. Although I could see Brienne in love with Jaime, Jaime in love with her is not believable. I'm not sure if Jaime left to protect or kill Cersei. More credible is that for both Jaime and Cersei there can be no other, no matter how repulsive that is. Sending Bronn to kill Jaime tells him how much he has hurt Cersei. 

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UNNECESSARY. Only one word to describe it. Adds nothing to the plot.

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45 minutes ago, Bran the Shipper said:

While I support the Jaime and Brienne romance, I don't like how it was handled.  They hooked them up only to tear them apart.  It came across that Jaime got really drunk and horny.  But when morning came he realized that he didn't want to do that again, and so he had to come up with an excuse to run off because he didn't want to be with Brienne anymore. 

It's worse, but in the same vein, than what they did with the Arya and Gendry pairing.  Which was Arya wanted a booty call and then had to explain to Gendry that she didn't actually want to be with him.

Arya's made much more sense. If the world was ending tomorrow and I was a virgin, I would do the same.

Kind of like the only thing she has left to experience in the world. She has travelled far. And has no regrets.

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Posted (edited)

I’m confused. I took the whole exchange between Jamie and Brienne Just before he left to mean that Jamie is going back to kill Cersei because he finally realized how hateful she truly is and how badly she has screwed him up.

Maybe it’s just bad writing or maybe they are being intentionally vague. Who knows, but I think having Bron com after him with a crossbow because Cersei gave him a wagon load of gold should have been a wake up call no? 

Edited by Green Knight

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I don't know what the showrunners were going for. If it turns out that Jaime is on a suicide mission to kill Cersei, then I guess that it was alright that he wanted one last night with Brienne before he dies. But the way this was handled gives the impression that Jaime after sex was like: Nope, this is not enough, it is still Cersei for me, we are both awful people and belong together, and this indeed pretty awkward and I feel sorry for Brienne, and would have prefered for them to part as friends.

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Waste of screen time, but a lot of this last episode was. As Deminelle posted above, unbelievable from Jaime.

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19 minutes ago, robasp2 said:

UNNECESSARY. Only one word to describe it. Adds nothing to the plot.

Yup. Just a bit of shallow heartstring-tugging.

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It was more than one night, IMO.  There was the night they for sure slept together, and then the armies left during the day and it was said that Jaime was going to stay at Winterfell.  Then another night, and it shows Brienne in bed, naked again, and Jaime sitting at the end of the bed, thinking, and then he leaves.  

Since he intended to stay in Winterfell - clearly for Brienne (and everyone knew it) - its safe to say that he didn't just get drunk and horny.  This has been a long time coming.  

That said, even though I know this isn't a story with happy endings, it did feel a little shoehorned in to me, to have it in the episode and then of course he has to leave on some mission... :rolleyes:  I think, as with a lot of things that are happening, it feels rushed and squeezed in.  

I'm not totally clear on why he is going back to Cersei, but my guess is it's to kill her.  I do think he still has love for her, but not (anymore) the way he loves Brienne.  I think he has looked at Brienne with love for a long time, but for a long time Cersei was in the way for him.  I think he'll die in KL and Brienne knew it. 

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Posted (edited)

It does really annoy me, and I'm surprised it happened. In an old ComicCon panel Gwendolyn Christie (who plays Brienne) said one of the things she really liked about the dynamic between Jaime and Brienne was that there was no love interest, they were just friends. Also given that a big part of Brienne's character is that she is a strong, independent woman, introducing a love interest like they did just cheapens a lot of her character arc. A lot of the stuff in this episode and also especially episode 2 felt like fan service to me. Also it annoys me that they created and then ended this whole thing in a single episode, like a lot of s8, it feels really rushed.

Edited by Khal Lhevon

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I've always rooted for the Briene+Jaime storyline (Brieme?) I thought it was the natural conclusion to Jamie and Cersei's arc--that the more beautiful woman to take everything Cersei holds dear is actually someone described as ugly (though beautiful in Jamie's eyes), and for Jamie to finally move on to someone who has the exact opposite moral compass to Cersei. 

So, yeah I always rooted for it but it was just too fast. The slow build up between them was handled beautifully... then Jamie fucked her and left her in the same episode. It was far too fast for it to have any real meaning. 

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Seriously, I would have preferred Jaime to die in Brienne's arms in the battle and done with it. Now he seems like somebody with a split personality, unless it turns out that he's going on a SO SECRET mission to kill Cersei. I've been shipping B and J for long, but I hate if their relationship would be on-off because of this fake drama.

4 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

It's worse, but in the same vein, than what they did with the Arya and Gendry pairing.  Which was Arya wanted a booty call and then had to explain to Gendry that she didn't actually want to be with him.

Indeed. Why even? Fan service - check? 

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4 hours ago, a girl knows nothing said:

I'm not thrilled with it. I personally don't like adding romantic subplots into stories just for the sake of having them and I feel like that's what this was. Same with Arya and Gendry. I liked Jaime and Brienne better as friends and comrades in arms with a mutual crush that was never going to be realized. Jaime going back to Cersei yet again and Brienne begging him not to could have been accomplished without the love interest. Good friends don't want good friends to die for a stupid cause either.

I don't think Brienne is going to be pregnant, or at least I sincerely hope she's not. I mean how many pregnancies (or suspected pregnancies) can one show support!

Totally agree with this. Their relationship began warming up nicely with all these discreet hints, but now D&D are just throwing everything at our face in the worst manner of fan service. It should have stayed discreet. They succumbed to a very basic cliché where two characters of the opposite gender cannot be close and loyal and mutually respect each other unless they also develop an explicitly romantic relationship. Jaime leaving Brienne was a sad scene but I was relieved that he broke her heart. I guess theirs will be a Titanic ending, complete with a quick and passionate romance, a sunken ship and the handsome lad (most likely) ending up dead by the iceberg ice queen.

That must have been one of the worst sex scenes in the history of television. "I can't believe it's so hot in this room." Did Jaime launch a porn star career somewhere off-screen? Well, we all know he didn't have much need for pillow talk until recently.

Pregnancy would be the stupidest outcome ever, although that and all the other expected baby news would undoubtedly help repopulate Westeros after all the wars are done. So far I've been keeping a death list but perhaps now I should start keeping a baby list too? Top names being Dany (father: Jon or Jorah), Brienne (father: Jaime, Tormund or Podrick), Arya (father: Gendry or the Hound), Sansa (father: Theon or Tyrion).

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4 hours ago, Green Knight said:

I’m confused. I took the whole exchange between Jamie and Brienne Just before he left to mean that Jamie is going back to kill Cersei because he finally realized how hateful she truly is and how badly she has screwed him up.

Maybe it’s just bad writing or maybe they are being intentionally vague. Who knows, but I think having Bron com after him with a crossbow because Cersei gave him a wagon load of gold should have been a wake up call no? 

I think Jamie has been realizing it for a long time. He has been slipping away from Cersei in increments. Bronn showing up was proof that Cersei hadn't given up on her promise to kill him if he left and he knows she won't give up once she made up her mind. 

It is the culmination of a lot of hinting for many seasons and then yes, they messed it up by rushing it. Jamie finally allowing himself to experience his feelings for Brienne, a woman his vanity never would endure, helped him to care more about the negative impact of Cersei. Jamie had to totally let go of his selfishness and vanity to care for Brienne and don't take his assholishness at the end as proof of the contrary. He did that because it was believable and to prevent Brienne from following him to help. Until that moment I figured Brienne was as good as dead by the end of the series and now I think she is most likely going to live.

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29 minutes ago, Stark_in_Winterfell said:

I think Jamie has been realizing it for a long time. He has been slipping away from Cersei in increments. Bronn showing up was proof that Cersei hadn't given up on her promise to kill him if he left and he knows she won't give up once she made up her mind. 

It is the culmination of a lot of hinting for many seasons and then yes, they messed it up by rushing it. Jamie finally allowing himself to experience his feelings for Brienne, a woman his vanity never would endure, helped him to care more about the negative impact of Cersei. Jamie had to totally let go of his selfishness and vanity to care for Brienne and don't take his assholishness at the end as proof of the contrary. He did that because it was believable and to prevent Brienne from following him to help. Until that moment I figured Brienne was as good as dead by the end of the series and now I think she is most likely going to live.

This is how I interpreted it, too.  And I think if it plays out the way I think it might, it'll be incredibly tragic.  

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Just the fact that Jaime decided to go back to King's Landing after hearing that Cersei was winning is indication enough that he's not going to help her. If anything, I think it's more likely that he's going to protect Tyrion. I could see them pulling a twist where Euron actually kills Cersei, however. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Why did Jamie talked to her in this way? He knew that this was going to break her heart. He believes that he is not going to come back I guess. He intends to kill Cersei and probably believes that this will be the end of him so he tries to distance her so she doesn’t risk her life trying to help him. That’s the only possible explanation I can think of. 

Edited by Nightwish

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