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@Tygett Lannister Based on Ben's case, it seems, that dragon-genes are very dominant, and even very small % of them is enough for a person to express traits of dragonseeds, if not in looks, then at least on a level of pheromones (or something like that). 1/64 is a bit over 1,5%, and those miger 1,5% are enough for the dragons to like Ben.

Jaehaerys II, Aerys II and Rhaella had typical Valyrian looks. It isn't know what Shaera looked like, but based on her father, Aegon V, and three of her brothers having typical Valyrian looks, it's likely, that she also looked like Valyrian. Eitherway, half of her genes she received from her Targaryen father. So her 50% + Jaehaerys' 50%, and as result we have, that Aerys and Rhaella were pureblooded, 100% Targaryens, and so is their children, Rhaegar and Daenerys.

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Posted (edited)

It’s not about genetic science, pheremones, chromosomes or whatever. It’s about blood magic.

The scenario I imagine is that the bloodline of the original Targ ancestor was linked to the bloodline of the original egg he bonded with. Probably through some human sacrifice of someone of his blood.

Thereafter the lineage of that original egg was linked to the lineage of that original Targaryen down through the ages.

How that link manifests in some Targaryen descendants more strongly than in others will not be a function of the science of genetics, but a function of the rules of whatever blood magic spell the original Targaryen blood mage had cast.

And I envisage this is the same way the other 39 Valyrian dragonlord families got started.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Megorova said:

@Tygett Lannister Based on Ben's case, it seems, that dragon-genes are very dominant, and even very small % of them is enough for a person to express traits of dragonseeds, if not in looks, then at least on a level of pheromones (or something like that). 1/64 is a bit over 1,5%, and those miger 1,5% are enough for the dragons to like Ben.

Jaehaerys II, Aerys II and Rhaella had typical Valyrian looks. It isn't know what Shaera looked like, but based on her father, Aegon V, and three of her brothers having typical Valyrian looks, it's likely, that she also looked like Valyrian. Eitherway, half of her genes she received from her Targaryen father. So her 50% + Jaehaerys' 50%, and as result we have, that Aerys and Rhaella were pureblooded, 100% Targaryens, and so is their children, Rhaegar and Daenerys.

This is not how genetics work though. If your grandgrandfather had blonde hair and all your other predecessors to that point had black you could still have blonde hair expressed or still carry that gene. So two people with black hair marrying doesn't mean their children will have pure black hair genes and no chance for anything other. 

Edited by Tygett Lannister

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Tygett Lannister said:

If your grandgrandfather had blonde hair and all your other predecessors to that point had black you could still have blonde hair expressed or still carry that gene. So two people with black hair marrying doesn't mean their children will have pure black hair genes and no chance for anything other. 

But in case with "blond" hair it's the opposite - two parents, that have blond hair, don't have even a single allele of "black" hair, and thus, can't have dark-haired children.

If two parents, both dark-haired, both had "blond" ancestors, and dark-haired ancestors, and both got from them an allele of blond hair, and allele of dark hair, then they are both Bb types (B - dark, dominant; b - blond, recessive; as result their hair is dark, even though there is a blond b allele). Then their children will be - B1b1 + B2b2 = B1B2 (dark-haired, without any chanses of having a light-haired child); B1b2 (dark-haired, but with 50/50 possibility of having blond child); b1B2 (same as the previous); b1b2 (blond, and with another parent, that is also a carrier of bb, their children could be only blonds).

That's how Drogo and Elia, that both were dark-haired, nevertheless were carriers of Bb alleles, and thus had light-haired children - Aegon and Rhaego. And there's a chance that Jon's child with Dany can also be blond, because Jon is also Bb.

In case with Jaehaerys II, Aerys II, and Rhaella, all three of them are bb (blond), so even if Queen Shaera, whose father was bb Aegon (blond) and mother was Bb Betha Blackwood (dark-haired but with blond ancestors. There was a blond Blackwood woman, mentioned somewhere either in one of ASOIAF books, or in The World Book. If Betha was not a Bb, then there was no way for her to have three "blond" sons.), was dark-haired, she still was a carrier of b alleles/genes of blond coloring, and passed it to both of her children, Aerys and Rhaella. So, Aerys and Rhaella, both being light-haired, means, that they are both bb, and from both of their parents they got b, b from mother and b from father, so their children (Rhaegar, Viserys, Daenerys, more) can be only blond. 

With two dark-haired parents, or two blond parents, their children could be even red-haired [edit, additional info below], if both parents were a carriers of a single red-hair allele. For a person to have red-hair, it have to have two alleles of red-hair, to get one from each parent. So, based on case of Ned Stark and Catelyn Tully, and all of their children having various shades of red-hair, or brown hair, it seems that amongst Ned's ancestors was either a red-haired one, or at least a carrier of one allele of red-hair-coloring, that got passed to Ned, and Ned passed it to some of his children, and to some of them passed his B, so those of them that got B from both parents, such as Arya, were brown haired, while Sansa had red hair, because from both parents she received R allele of red hair. Two dark-haired parents could be carriers of Bb or BB, and have dark-hair, and pass to their children B or b, and their children could be dark-haired or blond. But in case with both blond parents, their children can't be dark-haired (can be red-haired, but not dark-haired). B is a dominant allele, so if someone has it, then his/her hair is dark, even if the other allele is a b of blond coloring. So people with blond hair, can't be carriers of B dark alleles, and thus they themselves can only be blonds, and can have only blond children. Which is the case with Rhaegar's and Dany's parents and grandfather.

Edit: Additional info about red-hair coloring: people actually have at least four alleles, that determine their hair color. For example: BB-Rr - dark-haired, with two dark B alleles, one dominant R and one recessive r, as result this person can have dark-haired or red-haired children (if the other parent also has one R or two RR); Bb-Rr - can have dark-haired children, or blond children in combination with another carrier of b allele, or a red-haired children with a partner that also has R; BB-RR or Bb-RR or bb-RR - red-haired, because two R are bloking production of melanine, that gives color to hair; bb-Rr - with another parent, that is a carrier of b, can have blond children, or red-haired children, if that other partner have R. For example two blond parents, that are bb-Rr, can have children that are bb-rr - blond, or bb-Rr - blond, or bb-RR - red-haired (or strawberry blond).

Example: Ned Bb-Rr or BB-Rr + Cat BB-RR or Bb-RR = Sansa Bb-RR or BB-RR (red-haired) and Arya BB-Rr or Bb-Rr (brown-haired).

Edited by Megorova

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On 5/29/2019 at 9:56 PM, Megorova said:

@Tygett Lannister Based on Ben's case, it seems, that dragon-genes are very dominant. 

 

11 hours ago, Megorova said:

But in case with "blond" hair it's the opposite - two parents, that have blond hair, don't have even a single allele of "black" hair, and thus, can't have dark-haired children.

If two parents, both dark-haired, both had "blond" ancestors, and dark-haired ancestors, and both got from them an allele of blond hair, and allele of dark hair, then they are both Bb types (B - dark, dominant; b - blond, recessive; as result their hair is dark, even though there is a blond b allele). Then their children will be - B1b1 + B2b2 = B1B2 (dark-haired, without any chanses of having a light-haired child); B1b2 (dark-haired, but with 50/50 possibility of having blond child); b1B2 (same as the previous); b1b2 (blond, and with another parent, that is also a carrier of bb, their children could be only blonds).

That's how Drogo and Elia, that both were dark-haired, nevertheless were carriers of Bb alleles, and thus had light-haired children - Aegon and Rhaego. And there's a chance that Jon's child with Dany can also be blond, because Jon is also Bb.

In case with Jaehaerys II, Aerys II, and Rhaella, all three of them are bb (blond), so even if Queen Shaera, whose father was bb Aegon (blond) and mother was Bb Betha Blackwood (dark-haired but with blond ancestors. There was a blond Blackwood woman, mentioned somewhere either in one of ASOIAF books, or in The World Book. If Betha was not a Bb, then there was no way for her to have three "blond" sons.), was dark-haired, she still was a carrier of b alleles/genes of blond coloring, and passed it to both of her children, Aerys and Rhaella. So, Aerys and Rhaella, both being light-haired, means, that they are both bb, and from both of their parents they got b, b from mother and b from father, so their children (Rhaegar, Viserys, Daenerys, more) can be only blond. 

With two dark-haired parents, or two blond parents, their children could be even red-haired [edit, additional info below], if both parents were a carriers of a single red-hair allele. For a person to have red-hair, it have to have two alleles of red-hair, to get one from each parent. So, based on case of Ned Stark and Catelyn Tully, and all of their children having various shades of red-hair, or brown hair, it seems that amongst Ned's ancestors was either a red-haired one, or at least a carrier of one allele of red-hair-coloring, that got passed to Ned, and Ned passed it to some of his children, and to some of them passed his B, so those of them that got B from both parents, such as Arya, were brown haired, while Sansa had red hair, because from both parents she received R allele of red hair. Two dark-haired parents could be carriers of Bb or BB, and have dark-hair, and pass to their children B or b, and their children could be dark-haired or blond. But in case with both blond parents, their children can't be dark-haired (can be red-haired, but not dark-haired). B is a dominant allele, so if someone has it, then his/her hair is dark, even if the other allele is a b of blond coloring. So people with blond hair, can't be carriers of B dark alleles, and thus they themselves can only be blonds, and can have only blond children. Which is the case with Rhaegar's and Dany's parents and grandfather.

Edit: Additional info about red-hair coloring: people actually have at least four alleles, that determine their hair color. For example: BB-Rr - dark-haired, with two dark B alleles, one dominant R and one recessive r, as result this person can have dark-haired or red-haired children (if the other parent also has one R or two RR); Bb-Rr - can have dark-haired children, or blond children in combination with another carrier of b allele, or a red-haired children with a partner that also has R; BB-RR or Bb-RR or bb-RR - red-haired, because two R are bloking production of melanine, that gives color to hair; bb-Rr - with another parent, that is a carrier of b, can have blond children, or red-haired children, if that other partner have R. For example two blond parents, that are bb-Rr, can have children that are bb-rr - blond, or bb-Rr - blond, or bb-RR - red-haired (or strawberry blond).

Example: Ned Bb-Rr or BB-Rr + Cat BB-RR or Bb-RR = Sansa Bb-RR or BB-RR (red-haired) and Arya BB-Rr or Bb-Rr (brown-haired).

Well hair colour and eyes most likely have nothing to do with dragon riding ability so why did you write this essay. You said it yourself that dragon riding gene is very dominant and you are now arguing as if it follows the recessive rules of blonde hair. 

Since you you claim that dragon gene is dominant that means 'pure' Targaryens could very likely have some non-dragon recessive genes in them that are not expressed which would mean they are not pure as their children could have recessive combination of bb. It is also very hard to believe that Plum being 1/64 Targaryen would still have that gene. Genetics are complex, what we are taught in school is just a basic simplest example possible and I don't think George would be putting complex genetics into the story. I don't believe that genes or blood matter for dragon riding in the first place anyways. 

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