So, Arya and Sansa are evil, right?

[Ser Loras The Gay]

9 minutes ago, nborders said:

They’re downplaying Arya being a Faceless (Wo)man. She could walk in to the Red keep and kill Ceresi just as easily as she killed Walder Frey. And then do the same to Dany after that, if necessary. 

Yes she could because Facelles men are absolutely op in the universe of ASOIAF. If she manages to kill a high officer and assume his identity the war is over.

 

[Kajjo]

1 hour ago, Sheiraseastar23 said:

Well they have not been paying attention, this story was always heading in the other direction, especialy for the two Stark girls that have been through a lot of bad stuff through the years, and they have not met alot of good people on their journey, why should they trust Dany from the get go? If traumatic experiences teach you something, it's to be cautious and suspicious of other people's motives. As it turns out, they are right not to, because she is going batshit.

I agree with all of that.

[MinscS2]

You can be cautious and suspicious about someone you don't know, without being openly antagonistic. 

[Sheiraseastar23]

5 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

You can be cautious and suspicious about someone you don't know, without being openly antagonistic. 

While Sansa is openly anti Dany, Arya isn't at all anti Dany, much less openly, she is just pro Stark. Not liking someone is not evil.

[Dragonslack]

Funny her master with decades of experience was not so confident, and would only guarantee a murdered queen whenever, one that was not expecting it at the time.

 

How about crazy talk, Cercei hires faceless men of her own? How about they come of arya? Or are they saying that the whole order was just the waif and the master?

[MinscS2]

Just now, Sheiraseastar23 said:

While Sansa is openly anti Dany, Arya isn't at all anti Dany, much less openly, she is just pro Stark. Not liking someone is not evil.

I was referring to Sansa. 

Arya clearly doens't like Daenerys, but she's not letting it show either, which makes way more sense given the situation they are in.

I have no issues with how Arya "deals" with Daenerys, except her comment about her being able to kill the NK all on her own came across as extremely arrogant. She'd be dead with everyone else if Beric, the Hound and Melisandre hadn't been around.

[Sheiraseastar23]

1 minute ago, MinscS2 said:

I was referring to Sansa. 

Arya clearly doens't like Daenerys, but she's not letting it show either, which makes way more sense given the situation they are in.

I have no issues with how Arya "deals" with Daenerys, except her comment about her being able to kill the NK all on her own came across as extremely arrogant. She'd be dead with everyone else if Beric, the Hound and Melisandre hadn't been around.

I thought Sansa made that comment...

I don't think Arya likes or dislikes Dany , she just doesn't care, she cares for he family only.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

3 minutes ago, Dragonslack said:

Funny her master with decades of experience was not so confident, and would only guarantee a murdered queen whenever, one that was not expecting it at the time.

 

How about crazy talk, Cercei hires faceless men of her own? How about they come of arya? Or are they saying that the whole order was just the waif and the master?

In the BOOKS, it must be much harder to change appareance and it could be linked with people who can warg. Is said that some people have the ability to see through the facade, but we don't have any indication in the show that someone can do this so Arya is basically unstoppable. She just need to kill the first right person and escalate from there. If you really think about it she can basically kill anyone she wants doing this. I really don't know if D&D understand the implication of giving someone this kind of power just to make some good scenes like the frey banquet.

[Dragonslack]

Yet not even a hint in her direction, the hero of the long night to resolve the current problem without bloodshed. Just needs to kill Cerci. Some advisers...

 

Of course there is the baby shit going on. Enough to deter such a plot in DD's mind?

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

16 minutes ago, Sheiraseastar23 said:

I thought Sansa made that comment...

I don't think Arya likes or dislikes Dany , she just doesn't care, she cares for he family only.

Ayra told Jon they didn’t trust her but didn’t elaborate on the reasons other than she just wasn’t one of us. Jon tells Ayra that they would never make allies if they only trusted the people they grew up. Ayra says she doesn’t need allies. Ayra did tell Jon that he respected his decision to kneel to her though because they needed her armies and dragons. She got the stink eye and a snide mocking reply from Sansa for that remark.  I guess they just don’t like her because she is some foreigner who doesn’t belong here.

[State Trooper]

2 hours ago, nborders said:

They’re downplaying Arya being a Faceless (Wo)man. She could walk in to the Red keep and kill Ceresi just as easily as she killed Walder Frey. And then do the same to Dany after that, if necessary. 

I've hoped this would happen ever since she completed her "apprenticeship," and my big wish is she kills Cersei disguised as Jaime. 

[LucyMormont]

4 hours ago, Sheiraseastar23 said:

Sansa became the political player everyone wanted her to become, and everyone hoped she would become under LF's guidance.

Speak for yourself. Not everyone wanted her to become a new Littlefinger scheming manipulative backstabbing oath-breaker piece of s**t.

4 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

People are saying sansa is a traitor because she doesn't want to be Dany's bitch and want the North independent. I really don't understand people who think that honour is the way to define if people are good or bad. The whole point was to show that REALITY is GREY. There is no inherent good people nor inherent bad people. The only inherent BAD was the army of the dead, that SHOULD've made everyone fight together to fight it. But everyone seems to want good guys vs bad guys.

That's not true, actually. Just look around you. Reality is grey, in the sense that nobody is completely perfect, and nobody is the personification of pure evil. But people are good, or bad, because they tend to make morally good choices, or bad ones. A serial killer that happens to love his brother and is capable of doing something selfless for him, is not grey; it's bad. 

The writing of this show has made awfull people from almost all main characters, less and less likeable as they "evolved", and even from secondary ones. Real people are not like this, 

 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

5 minutes ago, LucyMormont said:

The writing of this show has made awfull people from almost all main characters, less and less likeable as they "evolved", and even from secondary ones. Real people are not like this, 

Yeah and not all people are morons like Ned and Jon. 

[Sheiraseastar23]

16 minutes ago, LucyMormont said:

Speak for yourself. Not everyone wanted her to become a new Littlefinger scheming manipulative backstabbing oath-breaker piece of s**t.

That's not true, actually. Just look around you. Reality is grey, in the sense that nobody is completely perfect, and nobody is the personification of pure evil. But people are good, or bad, because they tend to make morally good choices, or bad ones. A serial killer that happens to love his brother and is capable of doing something selfless for him, is not grey; it's bad. 

The writing of this show has made awfull people from almost all main characters, less and less likeable as they "evolved", and even from secondary ones. Real people are not like this, 

 

I'm sorry the story did not unfold like you would have liked, but saying that this was not bound to happen with Sansa' s storyline ( her becoming a decisive political player) in  the show, or isn' t bound to happen in the books is bull.

[LucyMormont]

47 minutes ago, Sheiraseastar23 said:

I'm sorry the story did not unfold like you would have liked, but saying that this was not bound to happen with Sansa' s storyline ( her becoming a decisive political player) in  the show, or isn' t bound to happen in the books is bull.

A  decisive political player is not as stupid as Sansa was, she would have had the North wiped out if she had been able to get her way. And since when high politics is about scheming, screwing you allies, backstabbing members of your family who never wronged you in any way, moronically defy and disrespect someone who is more powerful than you, etc, etc? 
You can be a decisive political player and still a good person, do you know? If her arc is  to learn how to deal with the likes of Cerseis and Littlefingers of this world, I expect her to do it to be able to stop them, not to become another one. And if she does become another one, I expect for her the same fate.
I'm not worried for her arc in the books, I know it will have more sense, if there are ever more books. And anyway, the books are "the song of ice and fire", and I hope that the ultimate meaning is that the "game" is pointless.
 

[Wik]

On 5/6/2019 at 3:36 PM, martianmister said:

Arya is a heartless killing machine and Sansa is a conspiracy scheming queen, something like a mix of Cersei and Littlefinger. They only care about the north and going to backstab their allies at the first chance. Is that what Martin mean when he said "a time for wolves?"

No, it's not.

[Orphalesion]

On 5/6/2019 at 11:01 PM, RhaenysBee said:

What are you talking about? Sure there have been. The waif. The actress who played Cersei. The Dothraki general. Khal Moro. Kinvara. That random Umber who captured Rickon. Rickon himself. Ed Sheeran. The show is full of important and compelling characters.

At this point I'd really much rather watch a show starring Lady Crane (the actress who played Cersei in Braavos) and the rest of the traveling actors making fun of the events in Game of Thrones rather than the stuff we are actually getting.

Their version would, by now, would not just be more entertaining, but also more thought-out and more faithful to the books.

[RhaenysBee]

7 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

At this point I'd really much rather watch a show starring Lady Crane (the actress who played Cersei in Braavos) and the rest of the traveling actors making fun of the events in Game of Thrones rather than the stuff we are actually getting.

Their version would, by now, would not just be more entertaining, but also more thought-out and more faithful to the books.

I do recommend YouTube reviews for this purpose. Much more entertaining and sensible than the actual show. 

[snow is the man]

On 5/6/2019 at 3:59 PM, Ser Loras The Gay said:

Of course they only care about the north. They're absolutely right on not trusting Daenerys. They should conspire and leave Dany to die on her pointless war. The north can defend itself holding moat cailin and taking all boats from white harbour to Pyke. If they hold all entrances to North they can declare independency. They can even have the support from other houses such as: Arryn, Martell, Tully and others. They all HATE cersei and can fight back holding estrategic positions. And another thing. Everyone in KL should hate Cersei to their guts, she killed so many innoecents when she exploded the Great scept it's unimaginable that anyone would support her for love.

Yes it is unimaginable that she would still have support but she does. If cersei beats dany then that's it. And the north could not hold out against the rest of westeros. The iron born were able to take half the north when rob took half their forces south. I don't see the north being stronger then it was back then. House bolton and house umber are gone and those were two of the most powerful houses in the north. House stark lost ALOT of soldiers fighting the dead and all of house mormont and it's troops are gone. And arya isn't gonna stay in the north as we saw so the secret assasin is not gonna be there.  If cersei and euron attack from both coasts in the north and then do what the ironborn did and attack moat caillan from the north then they would take that and have full access to the north and boom it's done. The north doesn't have the men or resources to fight the rest of westeros. and you can be sure that if dany loses everyone else will bend the knee to cersei because there is no force left to match her.

[snow is the man]

I don't think arya did anything wrong these past few episodes so I don't get why she is included in this. Sansa on the other hand has tried to have the north go back on it's word to help dany when she helped the north at great cost. She has been picking a fight she can't win and has betrayed jon completely. It took her less then a day to break her word to jon when she knew he wanted her to keep it a secret and how important that was to him. And why did she do it. Jon doesn't want to be king of the north or sit on the iron throne  and has made that clear but sansa is trying to push him into it anyways even when she doesn't have the support to fight dany or cersei. She is not only a horrible person who's word means nothing but she is an idiot who picks a fight with someone she can't beat.