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martianmister

So, Arya and Sansa are evil, right?

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Posted (edited)

Arya is a heartless killing machine and Sansa is a conspiracy scheming queen, something like a mix of Cersei and Littlefinger. They only care about the north and going to backstab their allies at the first chance. Is that what Martin mean when he said "a time for wolves?"

Edited by martianmister

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They certainly aren't honorable in the slightest.

Ned kept Jons identity a secret and ultimately died defending it, and then Sansa spilled within 5 minutes for her own gains. 

I genuinely couldn't care less if either of them died at this point. 

 

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Of course they only care about the north. They're absolutely right on not trusting Daenerys. They should conspire and leave Dany to die on her pointless war. The north can defend itself holding moat cailin and taking all boats from white harbour to Pyke. If they hold all entrances to North they can declare independency. They can even have the support from other houses such as: Arryn, Martell, Tully and others. They all HATE cersei and can fight back holding estrategic positions. And another thing. Everyone in KL should hate Cersei to their guts, she killed so many innoecents when she exploded the Great scept it's unimaginable that anyone would support her for love.

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21 minutes ago, martianmister said:

Arya is a heartless killing machine and Sansa is a conspiracy scheming queen, something like a mix of Cersei and Littlefinger. They only care about the north and going to backstab their allies at the first chance. Is that what Martin mean when he said "a time for wolves?"

I had the brief thought watching this episode that maybe my assumption that "a time for wolves" meant "a time for the Starks to win everything" was wrong and that it actually meant "war between the Starks."

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2 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

I had the brief thought watching this episode that maybe my assumption that "a time for wolves" meant "a time for the Starks to win everything" was wrong and that it actually meant "war between the Starks."

What war between the starks? Arya and Sansa want the same thing, they want the north to be left alone. Bran doesn't want anything and Jon isn't a Stark. So wtf are you talking about?

 

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37 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

What war between the starks? Arya and Sansa want the same thing, they want the north to be left alone. Bran doesn't want anything and Jon isn't a Stark. So wtf are you talking about?

 

I'm talking about the books. "A time for wolves" is not a phrase from the show.

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Yes, I believe so. Look, I really don't like showDany, but this season she did nothing to earn this bizarre reputation that suddenly she is insane. Sansa, on the other hand, is completely antagonistic with someone she bend the knee voluntarily WHEN WAS CONVENIENT. She is also 100% unstable. In one of the episodes she grunts and complains about how much Dany's army and dragons cost to maintain. Now that the threat of the NK is dealt with she suddenly has no care about food and supplies and even invites Dany to wait with her host for YEARS.

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35 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

There hasn’t been anything compelling about their characters since season 4. 

As if there have been ANY compelling characters since S4.

2 minutes ago, Saturno said:

Sansa, on the other hand, is completely antagonistic with someone she bend the knee voluntarily WHEN WAS CONVENIENT.

When did this happen? I don't remember anyone asking Sansa, or anyone, to bend the knee. No one but Jon bend the knee voluntarily.

3 minutes ago, Saturno said:

In one of the episodes she grunts and complains about how much Dany's army and dragons cost to maintain. Now that the threat of the NK is dealt with she suddenly has no care about food and supplies and even invites Dany to wait with her host for YEARS.

Of course the food issue wouldn't be raised again. You still don't understand what show you are watching?

And when did Sansa invite Dany to stay for years? Did you watch a different episode than the rest of the people?

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Just now, Mystical said:

As if there have been ANY compelling characters since S4.

What are you talking about? Sure there have been. The waif. The actress who played Cersei. The Dothraki general. Khal Moro. Kinvara. That random Umber who captured Rickon. Rickon himself. Ed Sheeran. The show is full of important and compelling characters.

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Arya the Shapeshifter has become an overpowered 2 dimensional bore and is far more sinister than "Mad Dany" is supposed to be. I haven't cared about her for years despite really liking her in he first few seasons.

 

I used to really like Sansa- the transformation of naive pawn to scheming manipulator was an interesting one but they have completely bungled it imo. She doesn't actually appear to have any politcal skill- she was all for executing Arya until Branbot spelled it out for her in Big Capital Letters what Littlefinger was doing. All she has done is bitch and whine about Dany all season. For someone who is supposed to be clever, her obvious animosity towards Dany (an alliance they desperately needed at that point) was idiotic in the extreme. She is more of a mini-Cersei than anything. I can't imagine she will be doing much in the final 2 episodes either. 

 

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Evil? No. Not in my opinion.

Sansa has become very calculating. But to be honest, I think her character's personality always leaned in that direction, and the particularly brutal way her innocence was taken from her simply sealed the deal. Even if nothing had ever happened to her, she'd have grown up to be a perfect court schemer, I think. However, I'm not calling her 'evil'. She's no Littlefinger.

And Arya. I personally don't think Arya is plotting against Daenerys. I think Arya is off the Kings Landing to cross a couple more important names off that list, and this would be something she'd do whether Dany was around or not. Her plans to leave afterward signify her acknowledgment that she is fundamentally changed and broken. Perhaps she intends to return to the FM.

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It's about the Iron Thone.  And to get there, enemies must be killed off.

Arya killed the NK.  Dany could not.  Dany is an underdog right now, big time.

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Sansa spilling the beans was just a sloppy plot device in order to have Jon's identity get out.

I think by now Sansa's proven that she cares deeply about her family, especially Jon. She wouldn't have been crying on the walkway if she wasn't afraid that something would happen to him. Sansa's been distrusting of Targaryens since early last season, so that's consistent. 

Arya hating Dany is, again, a plot device. They needed to set it up so that everyone is opposed to Dany, so they just had Arya hate her without having any real reason to.

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They have been shaped by the most messed up experiences. They still maintain a lot of the Stark/Tully ways. I disagree.

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Suffering from PTSD I guess...

They just conveniently took what they needed from Dany and now they probably want her to kill Cersei so they can backstab her and put John on the throne. Dany has every right to go berserk, I would go also after such treatment. 

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I'm sorry, I'm a big Arya fan so I have to disagree. I don't think she's evil, just a Stark loyalist.

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1 minute ago, Nightwish said:

They just conveniently took what they needed from Dany and now they probably want her to kill Cersei so they can backstab her and put John on the throne. Dany has every right to go berserk, I would go also after such treatment.

And Dany wanted to take from them. She came to Westeros to become ruler of the 7 Kingdoms, did she not? She just lucked out that Jon gave the North without her having to conquer it. And hey, if she proclaims herself ruler of the North, it's her damn duty to defend it. That's not them taking anything from Dany, it's Dany's obligation. A ruler who doesn't care about the survival of her subjects...who does that remind you of?

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Posted (edited)

Danaerys is the beggar queen. ENTITLEMENT MINDED TO THE END. Her brother - whom actually had tenuous claim to the throne - was the original “beggar king” and now he’s dead. As long as Jon is alive she has no claim which is what inspired her pathetic pleas to him to keep the circumstances around his birth a secret. They were both only alive courtesy of Varys, and even he now see’s that she probably isn’t the best way to go concerning the IT. Can’t wait to see her go down. I never did like her...

Edited by Green Knight

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4 minutes ago, Mystical said:

And Dany wanted to take from them. She came to Westeros to become ruler of the 7 Kingdoms, did she not? She just lucked out that Jon gave the North without her having to conquer it. And hey, if she proclaims herself ruler of the North, it's her damn duty to defend it. That's not them taking anything from Dany, it's Dany's obligation. A ruler who doesn't care about the survival of her subjects...who does that remind you of?

And she did defend it. Since Sansa had a problem with that she should speak straight forward before Dany sacrifices her army. Or she should accept it and be thankful instead of trying to convince Tyrion to betray her. 

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