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Bran the Shipper

Game of Thrones, A Tragedy

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4 hours ago, Kajjo said:

There is no Night's Watch anymore. What are you talking about?

There's not just no NW, there's literary no reason to rebuild the NW now.

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3 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

There's not just no NW, there's literary no reason to rebuild the NW now.

Isn’t the NW part of the law? You would have to create a new law to remove it. Just because there is no need doesn’t mean it stopped existing. 

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6 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Real life is so boring and tragic, that I don't need a TV-show to tell me how boring and tragic life is. 

Tyvm.

I don't think life is boring. But it is so full of tragedies, even if your own life isn't, that I fail to see why anoyne would enjoy to see more. I certainly didn't sign up for this when I became a reader/ watcher. Bittersweet and tragic are two very different things.  

Right now I am feeling that the real tragedy is that life is so short,  and I wasted so many of my precious hours  with this ... show.

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5 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Isn’t the NW part of the law? You would have to create a new law to remove it. Just because there is no need doesn’t mean it stopped existing. 

Exactly, the law that exists that would allow Jon to take the Black and give up all claim to lands and titles is still on the books.  Or he could become a Kingsguard.  I only suggested he take the black as it would allow him to return north to Ghost and Tormund, which IMO would be a fantastic ending for Jon.  

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2 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Isn’t the NW part of the law? You would have to create a new law to remove it. Just because there is no need doesn’t mean it stopped existing. 

Part of the law how exactly? It was founded to guard the realm from WW. That threat is gone. I don't remember it ever being part of the law, just a open for criminals to get out of their punishment etc. 

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15 minutes ago, olibar said:

Exactly, the law that exists that would allow Jon to take the Black and give up all claim to lands and titles is still on the books.  Or he could become a Kingsguard.  I only suggested he take the black as it would allow him to return north to Ghost and Tormund, which IMO would be a fantastic ending for Jon.  

Or Jon/Aegon could publicly abdicate the throne like Duncan the small did. Then he could do and go wherever he wants.

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5 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

Or Jon/Aegon could publicly abdicate the throne like Duncan the small did. Then he could do and go wherever he wants.

Jon offered that. It wasn’t good enough.

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It should be an epic, not a tragedy. But the whole Winter is Coming thing was dropped, and I guess the Lord of Light is busy elsewhere. So we're left with a bunch of pathetic people. 

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3 hours ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

There's not just no NW, there's literary no reason to rebuild the NW now.

You assume, but we don't actually know if all the White Walkers blew up. Our only evidence is the fact that the ones around the Night King blew up. 

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Just posted in another thread - there seems to be confusion over bittersweet, tragedy and tragic victory.

Bittersweet is all about the primary goal of the narrative and either

1) achieving it at great emotional loss/loss of character - this does not have to mean death. The Moses story is bittersweet because he frees his people but can't go to the promised land himself. I think this is what GoTs is going for but I agree not really hitting the right emotional notes for.

2) realizing the goal is flawed or relinquishing for something better/higher ideal. Letting your lover go. Letting the underdog win, even when you want to. Letting the NK win because you knew he would be better for Westeros :) I was hoping GoTs was going for this type of ending but had my hopes dashed after episode 3.

 

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13 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

What hope?  Why?  So the moral of the story is life is terrible but while you will probably die, you might live, but you will be broken and most of your loved ones will also die?  Where is there a reason to hope for the future, when this post script to the WW story is telling us again, that humans are awful and petty. The scheming started as soon as the NK fell to the ground.  

GoTs has shown, time and time again, that humans are awful and petty. It is quite a nihilistic tale, devoid of hope and spirituality. We do not destroy the things we love, the things we love destroy us, for instance.

It has gone for the wrong type of bittersweet for its narrative - not sure if the books will do the same. It has gone for the victory requires sacrifice type of bittersweet, which was never going to fit something so gritty. The world of Westoros could never really be redeemed, it crossed too many moral lines.

It should have gone for the other type of bittersweet, the type where they realise what they stand for is wrong - that they are on the wrong side. I always thought it is fantasy, with a magical wrapper, for exactly that reason. I thought they were going to say to the NK 'Oh, we realise we have fucked up and are not worthy, please forgive us and give us another chance' and the NK was either going to go 'one more time then' and head back to the lands of always winter or say 'no, you have fucked up too much, leave Westeros'.

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10 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Isn’t the NW part of the law? You would have to create a new law to remove it. Just because there is no need doesn’t mean it stopped existing. 

Ha-ha, do you work in bureaucracy? Westeros is a monarchy and not at all about stupid laws that have to be followed for nothing.

No matter who will be King or Queen, they will not see any necessity for a Night's Watch. The Wildings will live north of the wall and communicate with the Northern kingdom. The wall is simply not necessary anymore.

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A bit of speculation. Jon puts Dany on the throne but realises (like AemonTargaryen) that as long as he is in the known lands of Westeros the nobles will conspire against Dany so he goes into self imposed exile beyond the wall. He figuratively becomes the king beyond the wall. Bittersweet ending.

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3 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Ha-ha, do you work in bureaucracy? Westeros is a monarchy and not at all about stupid laws that have to be followed for nothing.

No matter who will be King or Queen, they will not see any necessity for a Night's Watch. The Wildings will live north of the wall and communicate with the Northern kingdom. The wall is simply not necessary anymore.

It was also used as a prison and a place to put unwanted for sons to serve the kingdom. The oath is why I think it will be kept once you take it you give up any titles. That is useful. It seems like an easy way to have Jon give up his claim and no longer make any Targs. 

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1 hour ago, the tower of albion said:

A bit of speculation. Jon puts Dany on the throne but realises (like AemonTargaryen) that as long as he is in the known lands of Westeros the nobles will conspire against Dany so he goes into self imposed exile beyond the wall. He figuratively becomes the king beyond the wall. Bittersweet ending.

I could live with that ...

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Posted (edited)

Latest episode has a IMDB-rating of 6,8, which is breathtakingly low compared to the second lowest scored episode (Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken) with it's 8,1

Seems that that the vast majority of the fan base hates the sharp and unexpected turn the show did in the latest episode. 

It's almost over, we don't want our expectations subverted for the sake of cheap shockvalue at this point, nor do we want a tragic ending to the story.

We want a satisfying conclusion to the characters who's arc's we've followed for years.
Now more than ever, we want our expectations to become reality, not to get subverted!

Edited by MinscS2

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10 hours ago, darmody said:

You assume, but we don't actually know if all the White Walkers blew up. Our only evidence is the fact that the ones around the Night King blew up. 

They showed us how the NK was made. We know who the NK is. They told us if you kill the NK everything he raised/created dies with him. Now I wouldn't put it past D&D going against that but what's the point.

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12 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Jon offered that. It wasn’t good enough.

Jon saying he doesn't want the throne and publicly abdicate his claim are two different things. Plus they also said Jon and Dany wouldn't help solve the issue by getting married, which is bs imo.

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14 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

GRRM said the books would have a "bittersweet" ending; which, at least to me, promises some sweet along with the bitter.

Perhaps the sweet will be Sam marrying Gilly, taking effective lordship of House Tarly and raising their kids, having a good and happy life and writing down the Song of Ice and Fire.  Maybe that will be the sweetest ending that we get.

I'm saddened by the direction that the writers and directors have taken the Stark girls:  Sansa reverts to being a sneaky tattletale; which was forgivable (in my opinion) when she was a child who did not understand the consequences of her actions but is less forgivable when she is a young woman who does understand the dangerous situation and that she is playing with fire and her brother's life is the prize of the game (or its forfeit).  Arya decides, rather peculiarly, shortly after being in the We Are Family/Last of the Starks camp, that she is leaving Winterfell on a mysterious mission in the South and will not return (the mysterious mission in the South is probably to avenge the killing of Lady and Mycah by killing Cersei).  So the mission is understandable, but why does Arya say she will not return to Winterfell?  You are right that she has rejected chances for happiness - she doesn't want Gendry's love, at least not as his wife; and suddenly she does not want to hang out with the other last Starks.  What will Arya do with the rest of her life if she survives her mission of vengeance?  Become an assassin-for-hire?  Return to Braavos and finish her Faceless Man training (or kill Jaquen Ha'quar and take over the cult)?  Thinking of that brave, forthright child Arya once was, it's sad to think of the bleakness of her life right now.  She's been scarred perhaps beyond repair.  

It would not surprise me if Sansa became Queen in the North, or the Warden of the North (if the North does return to the Seven Kingdoms).  I am disappointed in her conduct this past episode; but the North, at the moment, is sentimental about the Stark family; and if Jon does not live to claim the North as king or warden, that leaves only Bran, who does not want to be bothered, Arya, who is apparently rejecting her family ties, and Sansa, who most of the surviving Northern lords and some smallfolk will remember as the Lady of Winterfell who kept them fed (at least for a year, hopefully more).  I do think that Sansa is better qualified to rule the North than either Bran or Arya; and I frankly doubt that Jon will return (even if he lives), so Sansa would be the logical choice especially if there is ever going to be a new generation of Starks.  I cannot see Tyrion and Sansa becoming King and Queen of Westeros; I think Sansa fears and dislikes the South and will continue to do so even after Cersei's death.  

As for poor Daenerys; I believe she'll perish, probably doing something noble and heroic.  She might have a baby before that happens; though I don't see how they'll have the time to write in a successful pregnancy.  I do not see Jon and Daenerys married and ruling Westeros, or anywhere.  Drogon will probably die too, sadly. 

I hope at least that Westeros will get normal seasons after the magic goes away.  No more wights or walkers or night's king, please.

I always imagined Arya finishing up like Pretty Meris, an assassin and torturer for hire.

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