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Bran the Shipper

Game of Thrones, A Tragedy

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

Jon saying he doesn't want the throne and publicly abdicate his claim are two different things. Plus they also said Jon and Dany wouldn't help solve the issue by getting married, which is bs imo.

Because Varys doesn't think Jon can control Dany which is also BS. Dany has taken Jon's advice before. If he is her consort and her warden of the north she would continue to take his advice. The whole thing is bs. 

Once it becomes public he should publicly abdicate. Or if they dont marry become a member of the kingsguard and take the oath for no titles and children etc. He could do both. Jaime was still banging the queen while he as a member of kingsguard. It could work. 

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, the tower of albion said:

A bit of speculation. Jon puts Dany on the throne but realises (like AemonTargaryen) that as long as he is in the known lands of Westeros the nobles will conspire against Dany so he goes into self imposed exile beyond the wall. He figuratively becomes the king beyond the wall. Bittersweet ending.

I hope we get this. Tormund mentioning the real north again and confirming his people don't want to live south of the wall, even at The Gift is a strong hint Jon could go there. Even if they go down the mad queen route with Dany and whether she lives or dies, this would be a perfect way for Jon to leave this all behind and prove he has no interest in the throne.

Edited by Ghostlydragon

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37 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Varys doesn't think Jon can control Dany which is also BS. Dany has taken Jon's advice before.

Advice is different from control. 

Daenerys want to be queen and does not accept Jon's claim. Considering how much she always focused on birth right, she should at least offer to marry and rule together. She has no right anymore. And she still talks about "the rightful queen" in the E4 war council. Daenerys is delusional. Her greed for power and her unjustified focus on birthright is crazy.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Advice is different from control. 

Daenerys want to be queen and does not accept Jon's claim. Considering how much she always focused on birth right, she should at least offer to marry and rule together. She has no right anymore. And she still talks about "the rightful queen" in the E4 war council. Daenerys is delusional. Her greed for power and her unjustified focus on birthright is crazy.

She is still though the only one of the two who is interested for the throne and wants to claim it from Cersei. John has no interest. He willingly gave up his birthright. So she has the right that he has given her. 

Edited by Nightwish

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2 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

John has no interest. He willingly gave up his birthright. So she has the right that he has given her. 

Yes, probably that's the current interpretation. He waives his right out of love and he never was keen on being king in the first place. He is under-ambitious in an over-ambitious environment.

This could be one point why he could be a good king. As Varys points out, too.

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43 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

This could be one point why he could be a good king. As Varys points out, too.

The way the show hamfistedly over and over tells us how Jon would become a great king because he doesn't want to be king is pure BS.

I don't want to be a CEO, but that sure as hell doesn't mean that I'd be a great CEO.

I like Jon, but as far as ruling, he's been a terrible king and/or leader.
He's great at uniting people and inspire loyalty, but he's shown no good qualities as a ruler, other than being reluctant about which in the world of Westeros suddenly makes him the best there is.

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4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

The way the show hamfistedly over and over tells us how Jon would become a great king because he doesn't want to be king is pure BS.

I don't want to be a CEO, but that sure as hell doesn't mean that I'd be a great CEO.

I like Jon, but as far as ruling, he's been a terrible king and/or leader.
He's great at uniting people and inspire loyalty, but he's shown no good qualities as a ruler, other than being reluctant about which in the world of Westeros suddenly makes him the best there is.

If Varys thinks that Dany would be "too strong for him" if they were married, then plainly the lords of Westeros would be too strong for him if he were king.

There's no point having a king who's good-natured but weak.

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53 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Yes, probably that's the current interpretation. He waives his right out of love and he never was keen on being king in the first place. He is under-ambitious in an over-ambitious environment.

This could be one point why he could be a good king. As Varys points out, too.

He could be. He has qualifications as being too honorable and modest. But he must have the interest too.

I mean even if someone is the brightest of all people but is not interested let's say to join Nasa, even if all of his colleagues support him to do so, either he will fail -because he is not really interested- or he will succeed out of obligation but apparently be very unhappy. 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, SeanF said:

If Varys thinks that Dany would be "too strong for him" if they were married, then plainly the lords of Westeros would be too strong for him if he were king.

There's no point having a king who's good-natured but weak.

LOL it's funny how Vary's who cares about the good of the realm and loves so much peace prefers Dany vs John situation risking another war rather than a peaceful marriage solution. But again he acts as a barrier so writers can create the conflict. 

Edited by Nightwish

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26 minutes ago, SeanF said:

If Varys thinks that Dany would be "too strong for him" if they were married, then plainly the lords of Westeros would be too strong for him if he were king.

There's no point having a king who's good-natured but weak.

A weak king is great if all you want is a puppet king, which is what Varys (and to a lesser extent Sansa) wants.  Notice how it is the same episode where Dany rejects Varys' advice that he starts to plan treason.

But then when Varys says he serves the realm, he means that he only serves himself and justifies his goals by saying they benefit the unnamed masses who can't refute him.

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2 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

A weak king is great if all you want is a puppet king, which is what Varys (and to a lesser extent Sansa) wants.  Notice how it is the same episode where Dany rejects Varys' advice that he starts to plan treason.

But then when Varys says he serves the realm, he means that he only serves himself and justifies his goals by saying they benefit the unnamed masses who can't refute him.

Yes!  Varys saying he is for the people is just the way he's trying to play the game of thrones.  Dany plays through conquest followed by liberating the underclass (which she could still do if she takes the IT by force only to melt it down and "free" the Seven Kingdoms from rule by an overlord), Cersi through fear, Sansa (like her mentor) through behind the scenes manipulation.  Jon doesn't want the throne, and I suspect won't take it, heading to the North instead.  

I'm unsure what Tyrion's game is though.  He's an idealist and a dreamer, but can't often actualize what he idealizes and dreams in the real world.

The point is, no one has changed, which does lend to the theory that GoT is a Tragedy.  

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6 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Advice is different from control. 

Daenerys want to be queen and does not accept Jon's claim. Considering how much she always focused on birth right, she should at least offer to marry and rule together. She has no right anymore. And she still talks about "the rightful queen" in the E4 war council. Daenerys is delusional. Her greed for power and her unjustified focus on birthright is crazy.

In a way, Dany does accept Jon's claim. That's why she begs him to keep his true identity a secret. 

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16 hours ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

In a way, Dany does accept Jon's claim. That's why she begs him to keep his true identity a secret. 

That's true.

Daenerys has accepted his claim.

The weird thing is that she always was so adamant about her birthright and now that there is no birthright anymore she still clings to it. It's really a weird psychology working here. She is crazy and greedy for power, no matter with or without birthright.

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5 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

That's true.

Daenerys has accepted his claim.

The weird thing is that she always was so adamant about her birthright and now that there is no birthright anymore she still clings to it. It's really a weird psychology working here. She is crazy and greedy for power, no matter with or without birthright.

Well, since John gave her his place, why shouldn't see? 

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4 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Well, since John gave her his place, why shouldn't see? 

If birthright is important, she should now feel it's Jon's right. Isn't it?

He only refuses it because of his promise to her and his wrong perception. If he had known he was the heir he would not have bent the knee.

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13 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

That's true.

Daenerys has accepted his claim.

The weird thing is that she always was so adamant about her birthright and now that there is no birthright anymore she still clings to it. It's really a weird psychology working here. She is crazy and greedy for power, no matter with or without birthright.

Dislodge a psychological pebble, and you can start a landslide.

Daenerys said it herself in Season 7 to Jon, the only thing that kept her going was faith in herself.  She believed she was chosen by destiny to rule the world, and now she's worried that she wasn't.

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22 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

e's great at uniting people and inspire loyalty, but he's shown no good qualities as a ruler

I agree. He did not.

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1 minute ago, SeanF said:

She believed she was chosen by destiny to rule the world, and now she's worried that she wasn't.

That's how I see it, too. She is worried. She is bothered by having lost the birthright. She questions her destiny.

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It really depends how the writers are going with this but judging from what it seems so far, it might end a parody as well. 

Apparently the end of the story will conclude that the Throne as the Ring corrupted everyone.

And they should probably all die. They deserve it. So long for all houses of Westeros, the one was worst from the other. 

Baratheons: Robert was a drunken fool with a big belly and love for whores. Cersei still pays for his orgies and his feasts. Bankrupted the kingdom so he could die while hunting. Stannis an old fool who believed in witches and burned his daughter to get the Throne!!! 

Lanisters: Mad Queen Cersei  burns the sept and her lover boy tosses kids from windows and never regrets it.  

Targaryens:  Exiled beggars with illusions of getting back in power, a madness gene and useless dragons. 

Starks are the main parody: 

Sansa becomes a cold ungrateful Littlefinger. Thanks her abusers (?) Hates everyone!! Totally destroyed but doesn't know it.

Arya: Became A faceless no one. She also doesn't like people. In fact she doesn't need them. 

 Bran: a useless tree or something. Helped to bring down the wall and thousands of men to be butchered to protect his ass. 

John: A walking disaster for everybody around him.  "Oh its not my fault If I became Commander, king in the North, King of Westeros". But at the mean time he takes the positions because he has a cock, honour and most importantly doesn't want them.  

Burn!!!

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

If birthright is important, she should now feel it's Jon's right. Isn't it?

He only refuses it because of his promise to her and his wrong perception. If he had known he was the heir he would not have bent the knee.

Wouldn't he? We don't know it. He doesn't seem to care about it anyway, plus he is in love with her. 

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