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AlaerysTargaryen

If Dany becomes mad, it will cement the idea that all westerosi queens in their own right are unworthy.

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Rhaenyra Targaryen, stupid and mad for wanting to inherit her birthright and her father legacy. 

 

Rhaenys, the queen that never was. Well there wer better "men".  

Cersei , she deserves everything that's coming for her. And how come Dany will be the Mad quenn if Cersei already is. 

 

Daenerys Targaryen. Well thanks to the gods that there was a last minute secret Targ baby that doesnt want the throne, cause she is mad, for accepting that there will be inoccents dying in common warfare.   

 

Isn't that incedibly sexist, that there always is a better job. Westeros will never accept a Queen after such a record. The only revered queen is Alyssane, a good consort queen and wife capable of producing children. Will this  be the note that asoaif ends? Jon is a better ruler cause he has a dick?

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16 minutes ago, AlaerysTargaryen said:

Jon is a better ruler cause he has a dick?

If he sits the Throne in the end (which I wouldn't count on) it's not really because he has a dick though, it's because he isn't one. And crucially, he's not going (or have gone) insane. Yet, anyway. Is being a woman enough of an excuse for being insane that you "deserve to rule" anyway? Should it really be an excuse for anything? IMO no.

The fact is this show has shown a cavalcade of terrible rulers, some men, currently most of the surviving ones are women, consequently they're going to have to show some of the women failing.

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37 minutes ago, AlaerysTargaryen said:

Rhaenyra Targaryen, stupid and mad for wanting to inherit her birthright and her father legacy. 

 

Rhaenys, the queen that never was. Well there wer better "men".  

Cersei , she deserves everything that's coming for her. And how come Dany will be the Mad quenn if Cersei already is. 

 

Daenerys Targaryen. Well thanks to the gods that there was a last minute secret Targ baby that doesnt want the throne, cause she is mad, for accepting that there will be inoccents dying in common warfare.   

 

Isn't that incedibly sexist, that there always is a better job. Westeros will never accept a Queen after such a record. The only revered queen is Alyssane, a good consort queen and wife capable of producing children. Will this  be the note that asoaif ends? Jon is a better ruler cause he has a dick?

You are mistaken.

Read Blood&Fire.

Rhaenyra wasn't "mad", she was a ruler involved in a vicious feud for power and who had to cope with tragedy and loss because of it. This changed her character near the end of her life but she wasn't "mad" nor "evil", certainly no more than Aegon II.

Rhaenys The Queen Who Never Was was considered for succession and then rejected because she was female, not because she was mad or stupid or had anything "wrong".

As for Daenerys Targaryen, Jon was never a "a last minute secret Targ baby" but that aside yes, D&D are suddenly trying to change her character into the opposite of what she was in Essos. While there she was a saviour, in Westeros she's now being turned into a wrathful queen. She's got plenty of reasons to be angry, mind you, but the show seems dead set on turning her into the last "bad guy".

The point Martin makes in his books is Westeros is a patriarcal and this is unjust, that's exactly the reason why Brienne could never become a knight (until Jaime did it and that's probably unlawful). He does not justify it, he doesn't think it's right, it's something modelled on how things worked during the middle ages (and later on), and it's an "obstacle" to be defied and possibly ultimately overcome.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AlaerysTargaryen said:

Isn't that incedibly sexist,

Not at all. It just shows that MANY Targaryan leaders are on the verge of madness. The most important representative was mal, the Mad King. I believe this is about Targaryens and incest and associated madness, not about women or men.

Cersei is an entirely different case and MANY characters have believable flaws in Game of Thrones. Cersei's personality is so well developed, so complex and credible, why defile this most prominent character by sexism claims?

I regard it as sexism to always see the gender as most important. A world would be free of sexism if we would just consider characters and personalities and not their gender.

Game of Thrones depicts so many strong female characters. Quite the contrary to sexism, if you ask me. The women are very important here, smart, powerful, pivotal. Nothing to moan at all.

And think about Olenna, Arya, Brienne, Sansa... all of them so strong in their own way.

The only sexism in Game of Thrones is the non-phantasy patriarchy. Yes, that is true. And is more than clear that this is a problem and it is not cherished at all. Jaime knighting Brienne is a great statement against male predominance.

Edited by Kajjo

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Oh God, feminism is so stupid. I really love Dany, but I am very glad that the writers do not have to agree with the arguments of feminists.

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9 minutes ago, Ilissa said:

Oh God, feminism is so stupid. I really love Dany, but I am very glad that the writers do not have to agree with the arguments of feminists.

This.

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10 minutes ago, elanmorin said:

The point Martin makes in his books is Westeros is a patriarcal and this is unjust

Oh really? Maybe the monarchy is also "unjust"? This is the Middle Ages! If you do not want patriarchy, then do not read realistic fantasy. There are many stupid books with "strong women" who even fight on a par with men, haha.

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Idk, I guess all Stark men are fucking idiots??

I don't think it's wise to resume every shitty writing as "sexism". It's just shitty writing.

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1 minute ago, Nami said:

I don't think it's wise to resume every shitty writing as "sexism". It's just shitty writing.

Yep.

 

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1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

Game of Thrones depicts so many strong female characters. Quite the contrary to sexism, if you ask me. The women are very important here, smart, powerful, pivotal. Nothing to moan at all.

And think about Olenna, Arya, Brienne, Sansa... all of them so strong in their own way.

The only sexism in Game of Thrones is the non-phantasy patriarchy. Yes, that is true. And is more than clear that this is a problem and it is not cherished at all. Jaime knighting Brienne is a great statement against male predominance.

I do no agree, for me, GoT doesn't depicts female characters more than what they are in real life. 

They are good at playing the "game of thrones", plotting, manipulating. But that's all. There's no real "strength" there.

It's a bit like Marie Stuart and Elizabeth, both played the game of thrones...

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1 minute ago, Targaryen Peas said:

I do no agree, for me, GoT doesn't depicts female characters more than what they are in real life. 

Did I say the opposite? But GoT depicts women in a variety of different ways and that is realistic. Do we agree on that?

2 minutes ago, Targaryen Peas said:

They are good at playing the "game of thrones", plotting, manipulating. But that's all. There's no real "strength" there.

What is "real" strenght for you? Olenna led the House Tyrell. Daenerys leads armies and rules, both in Essos and Westeros. Arya is independent and survived hardships by typically strong personality features like resilience, bravery, smartness, toughness. Sansa mellowed from naive to intrigant. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

What is "real" strenght for you? Olenna led the House Tyrell. Daenerys leads armies and rules, both in Essos and Westeros. Arya is independent and survived hardships by typically strong personality features like resilience, bravery, smartness, toughness. Sansa mellowed from naive to intrigant. 

What I mean is that they don't hold any actual power. We can see it pretty clearly, they need way more effort to achieve half the results. 

As much as I agree for Olenna. Daenerys will crumble next episode, and so will Cersei. 

Sansa ? Right when Jon came back, the north forgot her. Even though he "is" a bastard. 

Forgot about the Greyjoy, but they said it quite clearly "We will never accept a woman ruling us"

They just don't hold the same value. 

Edited by Targaryen Peas

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Rhaenyra was certainly not mad.  Her cause was just, but she was broken by her opponents, and her own tragedies.  She was a much better person than Aegon II. 

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8 minutes ago, Targaryen Peas said:

Forgot about the Greyjoy, but they said it quite clearly "We will never accept a woman ruling us"

So what? It's a medieval society and particularly the Ironborns are depicted in exactly that way. I agree. They believe in masculine values like in fighting, killing, punching. Is that a positive depiction of masculinity? Maybe men should moan about bad sexism here.

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3 hours ago, AlaerysTargaryen said:

Isn't that incedibly sexist, that there always is a better job. Westeros will never accept a Queen after such a record. The only revered queen is Alyssane, a good consort queen and wife capable of producing children. Will this  be the note that asoaif ends? Jon is a better ruler cause he has a dick?

It is sexist but don't forget that Westeros was created to emulate early medieval Europe. That wasn't the greatest place and era to be a female monarch. 

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8 minutes ago, adiman83 said:

It is sexist but don't forget that Westeros was created to emulate early medieval Europe. That wasn't the greatest place and era to be a female monarch. 

The thing is, Europe had a religion that said woman can't rule. Westeros doesn't, at least not to my knowledge. 

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41 minutes ago, Targaryen Peas said:

What I mean is that they don't hold any actual power. We can see it pretty clearly, they need way more effort to achieve half the results. 

As much as I agree for Olenna. Daenerys will crumble next episode, and so will Cersei. 

Sansa ? Right when Jon came back, the north forgot her. Even though he "is" a bastard. 

Forgot about the Greyjoy, but they said it quite clearly "We will never accept a woman ruling us"

They just don't hold the same value. 

Do we need to have empowered independent wahman in a medieval fantasy setting? There are a million shows set in modern days with that. It's the way it is, if you can't handle, move on. I accept it for what it is, understanding the context, and don't feel bothered AT ALL.

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3 hours ago, AlaerysTargaryen said:

Rhaenyra Targaryen, stupid and mad for wanting to inherit her birthright and her father legacy. 

 

Rhaenys, the queen that never was. Well there wer better "men".  

Cersei , she deserves everything that's coming for her. And how come Dany will be the Mad quenn if Cersei already is. 

 

Daenerys Targaryen. Well thanks to the gods that there was a last minute secret Targ baby that doesnt want the throne, cause she is mad, for accepting that there will be inoccents dying in common warfare.   

 

Isn't that incedibly sexist, that there always is a better job. Westeros will never accept a Queen after such a record. The only revered queen is Alyssane, a good consort queen and wife capable of producing children. Will this  be the note that asoaif ends? Jon is a better ruler cause he has a dick?

No, I think it will justify the idea that Targaryens are a risk due to their "fire and blood" nature and without correct counseling they tend to lose it. So their dynasty apparently correctly was wiped out. 

Because Westeros embraces the monarchy system of succession where the the males do have priority over females you can really blame it for being "sexist". It is all the way but these were the norms. A patriarch society all the way.  

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