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Hippocras

Varys burns, Rhaegal returns?

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4 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

It's a phantasy world and in literature there have been many different ways of resurrection and reanimation, of living, dead, undead and reanimated.

It is absolutely clear beyond any doubt in Game of Thrones that "raising the deads to wight" is something entirely different from resurrection.

Not according to GRRM. 

According to GRRM, Beric is dead. A fire wight. 

 

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Just now, Hippocras said:

This is the world GRRM created. If he calls them fire wights then they are fire wights. 

He has to write that in books or show that in the show.

All these interviews and half-done stuff leads to nothing. Many interview sentences are completely torn out of context. GRRM needs so long for the books because he has to think things through and maybe he has some problems with that now and then. 

A phrase like "fire wights" might have been joking or whatever. 

Beric and Jon are no wights.

Wait for the books and take them literally. 

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1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

He has to write that in books or show that in the show.

All these interviews and half-done stuff leads to nothing. Many interview sentences are completely torn out of context. GRRM needs so long for the books because he has to think things through and maybe he has some problems with that now and then. 

A phrase like "fire wights" might have been joking or whatever. 

Beric and Jon are no wights.

Wait for the books and take them literally. 

You are basically arguming about semantics and wording, but what does it matter? They were dead, and are now not dead but different. Same thing could therefore happen to another characterncluding possibly a dragon.

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Posted (edited)

I think it is important to note that Beric and Melisandre were kept alive by « the Lord of Light » for a purpose, and once the purpose was completed they died. Expendable foot soldiers. They also felt compelled to act by the will of their god. So really not all that different from the Ice version of wights if you consider it in spite of the fact they still behaved basically like humans.

Edited by Hippocras

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4 minutes ago, Hippocras said:

So really not all that different

I see no resemblance at all between how Jon acts and lives again and undead wights raised from the dead.

I agree that there could have been a fire-equivalent of ice wights, but they have not show such entities. The term wight is in the show exclusively used for remote-controlled, undead that decay, do not heal, have missing limbs, bones, drastic injuries.

 

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16 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

He has to write that in books or show that in the show.

All these interviews and half-done stuff leads to nothing. Many interview sentences are completely torn out of context. GRRM needs so long for the books because he has to think things through and maybe he has some problems with that now and then. 

A phrase like "fire wights" might have been joking or whatever. 

Beric and Jon are no wights.

Wait for the books and take them literally. 

'Fire wights' might have been joking, but what about his clear statement that Beric has no heartbeat anymore?

 

 

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1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

I see no resemblance at all between how Jon acts and lives again and undead wights raised from the dead.

I agree that there could have been a fire-equivalent of ice wights, but they have not show such entities. The term wight is in the show exclusively used for remote-controlled, undead that decay, do not heal, have missing limbs, bones, drastic injuries.

 

I am just going to believe GRRM about his own world and his own story. Here is the wikipedia definition:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wight

Not very detailed, so then if you click within on undead it is described as simply being dead but behaving as if alive.

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Just now, OttoVonBismarck said:

'Fire wights' might have been joking, but what about his clear statement that Beric has no heartbeat anymore?

He shall write in in books and explain it. Not provide gross details in interviews. Like in the series: Show it, don't tell it.

Beric obviously does bleed in the show. That requires a heart beat. We discuss the show here, not the books or any weird interviews of authors who might have lost it.

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1 minute ago, Hippocras said:

Not very detailed, so then if you click within on undead it is described as simply being dead but behaving as if alive.

Fair enough as a general description. It's like with vampires -- a certain show or book creates their own interpretation of it and you cannot argue with other shows or books then. In Vampire diaries they eat garlic.

Wight as a general term of "alive again" is fine for me. 

Wight as term in the Game of Thrones universe is a fixed term for a raised dead behaving like from The walking Dead

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Fair enough as a general description. It's like with vampires -- a certain show or book creates their own interpretation of it and you cannot argue with other shows or books then. In Vampire diaries they eat garlic.

Wight as a general term of "alive again" is fine for me. 

Wight as term in the Game of Thrones universe is a fixed term for a raised dead behaving like from The walking Dead

 

 

So you say, but many of us disagree. Because clearly those are not the only kind of undead in the series. Including the show.

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2 minutes ago, Hippocras said:

Because clearly those are not the only kind of undead in the series.

We have wights, raised from the dead by White Walkers. 

We have Jon Snow and Beric Dondarrion, resurrected by magic, possible the Lord of Light.

Do we have any more "sorts of dead"?

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14 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

He shall write in in books and explain it. Not provide gross details in interviews. Like in the series: Show it, don't tell it.

Beric obviously does bleed in the show. That requires a heart beat. We discuss the show here, not the books or any weird interviews of authors who might have lost it.

Well, I was not talking about the books.

Apparantly GRRM now became an author who might have lost it? 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

We have wights, raised from the dead by White Walkers. 

We have Jon Snow and Beric Dondarrion, resurrected by magic, possible the Lord of Light.

Do we have any more "sorts of dead"?

Jon remains a bit of a mystery. But Beric was very much a minion of R’hllor just as what you call wights were minions of the Night King.

Both the Night King and R’hllor are magical forces that need to be defeated and that have foot soldiers. Now, with fire magic, very few wights exist in large part because if bodies are burned they are not reanimated. Ice preserves, including preserving bodies. Fire doesn’t do that. This is why the two different kinds of undead function differently. Nevertheless, is is NOT the case that ALL people live and die at the pleasure of R’hllor the Lord of Light. Only what I call fire wights and what you can call whatever you like.

R’hllor is not a benevolent God and debatable if a god at all. R’hllor is the fire magic equivalent to the Night King.

Edited by Hippocras

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2 minutes ago, OttoVonBismarck said:

Apparantly GRRM now became an author who might have lost it? 

I hope not but we will see whether he is able to wrap up the story and finish the books. Many are worried that he introduced to many characters and side-stories and needs time skips and whatever to get it all done. The last books need an outrageous amount of time.

I sincerely hope that he just waited the show to finish and will surprise us with a coherent, consistent, great story line with all arcs coming to a satisfying close. 

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23 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

We have wights, raised from the dead by White Walkers. 

We have Jon Snow and Beric Dondarrion, resurrected by magic, possible the Lord of Light.

Do we have any more "sorts of dead"?

There was that shadow-monster-wight-messenger-of-death that Melisansbra birthed that whacked or offed or whacked Renly off.  

They've abandoned that kind of shit, though and I'd be shocked to see something like that reintrpoduced at the 11th hour.

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5 minutes ago, dannyk65 said:

There was that shadow-monster-wight-messenger-of-death that Melisansbra birthed that whacked or offed or whacked Renly off.  

They've abandoned that kind of shit, though and I'd be shocked to see something like that reintrpoduced at the 11th hour.

It is possible a few elements of Stannis’s story may come back, including the shadow baby though I know noone expects it. Related magic is after all part of Dany’s story too. I think with all the talk of Dany’s infertility last season this may actually be where things are headed. She can’t produce an heir and is isolating herself from allies. So maybe a Fire Priest’s promise to give her a child is as convincing as it was for Stannis.

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All i'd like to add to this heated discussion is there exists no proof of a R'hllor

 

as for fire wights.... i mean if the guy who created this world says it i think ill take his word over someone on a forum.

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47 minutes ago, paulh_85 said:

All i'd like to add to this heated discussion is there exists no proof of a R'hllor

 

as for fire wights.... i mean if the guy who created this world says it i think ill take his word over someone on a forum.

No proof, no. Just weird demon shadows dancing in a tent when Dany lost her baby, Melisandre’s shadow baby nad other powers, and a continent full of worshippers. As for what it actually is, who knows? Nothing good I think.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Kajjo said:

We have wights, raised from the dead by White Walkers. 

We have Jon Snow and Beric Dondarrion, resurrected by magic, possible the Lord of Light.

Do we have any more "sorts of dead"?

Robert Strong / the Mountain

 

Now watch as episode 5 starts with the Golden Company hauling Rhaegal out of the sea by chains, Qyburn hooking some giant hose up to Rhaegal, before his eyes open again.  Flash to Cersei riding a Qyburn animated Rhaegal.

Edited by WalkinDude

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1 hour ago, WalkinDude said:

Robert Strong / the Mountain

 

Now watch as episode 5 starts with the Golden Company hauling Rhaegal out of the sea by chains, Qyburn hooking some giant hose up to Rhaegal, before his eyes open again.  Flash to Cersei riding a Qyburn animated Rhaegal.

While this seems unlikely to me, Qyburn dabbling in dark magic with dangerous results does not. I doubt he will annimate Rhaegal but he may try to reproduce the NK or something. Or figure out shadow babies.

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