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GeorgeIAF

Do we have concrete proof or confirmation ?

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That Jon really loves Dany or he manipulated her into thinking that he does, while he was just after her support in the war against the dead ?

It would really be bitter if he will reveal to her that he never loved her and only needed her help in the wars against NK and Cersei.

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Jon loves Daenerys. In addition to all their scenes together, Tyrion basically blurts it out, so we get both a show and tell.

And Jon is an atrocious lier and honorable to a fault, he would never be able to use guile and manipulation in this manner.

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1 hour ago, GeorgeIAF said:

That Jon really loves Dany or he manipulated her into thinking that he does,

He fell in love. They love each other.

There is no evidence, but we are made to believe so and it is believable.

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I think he loves her or at least used to love her. Not sure how he feels about f*cking his aunt.

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Posted (edited)

He loves her, it just wasn’t ever established or built up and Kit Harrington can’t act a romantic scene with a buddy who is also his wife’s buddy. 

Edited by RhaenysBee

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Posted (edited)

He's sexually attracted to her (as his Targaryen blood demands), till he found out that she's his aunt. Ygritte is his only true love, for now at least.

Edited by martianmister

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Jon tried to manipulate Arya to turn Sansa to Dany when they hadn't seen each other in years. He even leans in, turns on the conman voice, puts his hand on Ayra's shoulder and tries a sentimental appeal. Arya looks at Jon's hand like "really Jon. You going there?" She shuts him down completely with the Sansa's the smartest statement. He then turns off the conman act like a switch when he leans back and lets his voice and mannerisms to go back to normal. He also wasn't honest about the circumstances of his kneeling which handicapped Dany's ability to gain acceptance. Some find the idea that Jon trusted Sansa with his secret so unbelievable that it makes more sense to them that at least in part, Jon wanted it to get around. 

Love and  manipulation aren't mutually exclusive. Jon's kneeling when he didn't have to makes more sense if it's the sum of Jon's feelings, his obsessive desperation for help especially in the face of finally getting his home and family back, worries that Dany is too focused on the throne and she may change her mind, time spent around LF, and being messed up from his injuries. 

 

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5 hours ago, btfu806 said:

He loves her, I don't think Jon Snow is a smart enough character to do anything that complicated.

This! 

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8 hours ago, GeorgeIAF said:

That Jon really loves Dany or he manipulated her into thinking that he does, while he was just after her support in the war against the dead ?

It would really be bitter if he will reveal to her that he never loved her and only needed her help in the wars against NK and Cersei.

Judging by Jon's character I would say that he does genuinely love her, not sure he would be able to put on such an act, he wouldn't know to.

He's also made it pretty clear that he doesn't want the throne even after growing up to believe he's been a bastard his whole life and didn't u-turn when it came to riding to KL.

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5 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

I think he loves her or at least used to love her. Not sure how he feels about f*cking his aunt.

I don't think show Jon cares that Dany is his aunt. I expect book Jon to struggle with it more. If it even happens in the books.

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4 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

He loves her, it just wasn’t ever established or built up and Kit Harrington can’t act a romantic scene with a buddy who is also his wife’s buddy. 

That's the problem with having such shorter seasons the last 2 seasons. We have zero build up to either of them falling in love with each other. Jon arrived at DS in what episode 3 of season 7 and by episode 6 of that season  we're being told Jon loves Dany by the show.

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8 hours ago, GeorgeIAF said:

That Jon really loves Dany or he manipulated her into thinking that he does, while he was just after her support in the war against the dead ?

It would really be bitter if he will reveal to her that he never loved her and only needed her help in the wars against NK and Cersei.

We know that much like his uncle, Jon has a very low (read non existent) talent for subterfuge and deception.  

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This episode, for all it's flaws, finally answered the question we've been asking for nearly two years:
How will Jon and Daenerys react from a romantic PoV to the news of them being aunt and nephew.

And...well, it surely seemed like they didn't mind it, at least not nearly enough to break of their romance because of that reason alone.

They both looked like they wanted to continue their relationship despite this knowledge, but what ultimately got in the way was him not being able to keep his identity a secret, and she being too focused on the Iron Throne.

If Jon had sworn to keep his identity a secret, they would've both continued banging like if nothing had changed.
 

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When has the pretty potato ever been sneaky or subtle?  His double agent career was fast tracked by the half hand and he was awful at it.  He is as honorable and straightforward as his dad.  

 

Ned is his dad, Rhaegar just donated his sperm.  The man who raised you is your dad.

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I think the idea of Jon being completely incapable of manipulation or lying is wrong. I believe he would be able to do it, if it's for the greater good. We saw him living undercover between the freefolk, where obviously he lied and manipulated them to make them believe he was a traitor to the Night's Watch, and even killed a NW brother to convince them. But hey, they wrote Jon so inconsistenly that who knows. Then they made him say the truth to Cersei, in the most inconvenient moment and when lying would have been for the greater good. 

I believe he does like Dany, he  believes in her good intentions, and is blinded to her most volatile traits. I don't know if he loves her, but he certainly seems to.

As somebody has already said, trusting people is Jon's weakness, believing that others would make the right choice.

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5 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

I Not sure how he feels about f*cking his aunt.

Makes me think,..f*cking an aunt ain't that bad as f*cking a niece, amirite? Dany should be more ashamed than Jon :P

A bit more seriously tho; if the roles were switched, if Jon was Dany's uncle, people(IRL) would be a lot more opposed to the idea of them being a couple...I think.

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I think that's it's weird that Varys considers odd a marriage between aunt and niece. Incest in Westeros (as it was in medieval Europe), is only between siblings or between parents and sons/daughters. So that shouldn't matter at all for Jon.

I was sure he loved Dany, but the scene in the bedroom was a bit weird. They were kissing but then he distanced himself. Is that because he finds disgusting kissing his aunt (sadly, D&D decided that in Westeros kissing an aunt is gross), or because he doesn't love her anymore?

 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, LadyOlenna said:

I think that's it's weird that Varys considers odd a marriage between aunt and niece. Incest in Westeros (as it was in medieval Europe), is only between siblings or between parents and sons/daughters. So that shouldn't matter at all for Jon.

This episode made me certain that Varys has actively been looking for a way out of Team-Daenerys for quite some time, and that all his talk about "serving the realm" is pure bullshit. He's in it for himself, he wants power which requires a ruler he can influence and manipulate, and Daenerys is evidently not that ruler.
He also continuously tries to manipulate Tyrion, who's essentially being the 2nd-in-command,  but when he notices that Tyrion hesitates and won't move against his queen in the manner Varys wants, he essentially goes "I've said all I can" and leaves to start plotting Daenerys' downfall on his own.
He basically admitted to being addicted to power when he spoke with Melisandre last season, and he knows he will gain more power at this stage by "advising" Jon than Daenerys. And being a turn-cloak is basically his thing.

And Varys' reply to a potential Jon/Daenerys marriage fits his agenda:
Remember that Varys is the one who continuously shoots down the idea of a marriage between Jon and Daenerys: 
He did back in E1 when Davos brought it up, and he did now when Tyrion brought it up. 
He claims that Jon would be, if not repulsed, then at least reluctant to the idea of marrying his aunt - we know from this very episode that this isn't true.
He then claims that Daenerys would be "too strong for Jon" (which woman isn't at this point, really?) and bend him to her will - we know in hindsight that again, this isn't true. Jon has shown no qualms about defying Daenerys in the past, and has yet to show any signs of fear in her presence. Jon might be slightly pussy-whipped and honorbound to Daenerys (and has actually seen who she can be when she's at her best), but he has yet to follow her out of fear. 

And him talking about treason and having Daenerys assassinated a) before Cersei is even dealt with and b) before seeing Daenerys actually commit any atrocities, makes no god damn sense. 

Edited by MinscS2

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