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martianmister

Books vs Show: How much difference?

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Posted (edited)
On 5/9/2019 at 12:29 PM, Larger than Average Finger said:

I hope that Martin is actually done Winds of Winter, and its being held for after the Series is done.

If that's the case, he may have at least some of the final book done, and there is some hope it will get written.

If Martin needs another Year or more to finalize the next book, the chances of him ever finishing the last one are very close to zero.

I'm sure the publishers were more than happy to hold off releasing the book whilst the hype was at an all time high worldwide. 

" Lets wait until all the publicity from the show has died down and then release the book...." :huh:

Edited by Higgins86

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1 hour ago, Higgins86 said:

I'm sure the publishers were more than happy to hold off releasing the book whilst the hype was at an all time high worldwide. 

" Lets wait until all the publicity from the show has died down and then release the book...." :huh:

The logical time to announce the book would be next week. But GRRM says he still isn't finished with Book 6. All we know is that it is now two volumes.

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Posted (edited)

I am not suggesting that GRRM should try to placate die hard Dany fans, or any other fans of particular characters, but there is a great chance still of cementing his legacy as another Tolkien. There is still everything to play for! 

Not sure if he is contractually bound to have a 'similar' ending as the show, but even if he was, he could get still hit enough major milestones from the show and with so many additional characters in the book it would probably be ridiculous for HBO to sue, not to mention the bad publicity around it ("American Tolkien sued by studio because his books were far better written and leaves fans with a true bitter sweet ending, highlighting studio's hapless decision to employ sophomore fugazzi hacks who conned and hustled their way to the rights to the show by stealing solution to plot mystery from internet forum").

So godspeed George, but please don't take another 8 years! Why don't you just publish whatever's ready first and figure out the rest, it's not like ADWD had a proper ending anyway, so we are fine if none of the plots have reached a kind of a conclusion in TWOW yet!

And for the ultimate end, kill whomever you like, have them go mad, burn whom they like, but we're sure you will make it seem more natural than what these imposters have done.

And yeah, we don't need any prequel shows, they are probably going to be crap. Another one or two Dunk & Egg and FaB II after ASOIAF has ended would be more than enough!

Edited by Ser Hedge

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Not quite sure how the Bloodmoon prequel is going to work with the mess that the Two Stooges have made.

How on Earth is Jane Goldman going to explain all of the magic that was such an important part to the original Long Night only for it to just peter out and vanish inexplicably by the time the Second Long Night came around.

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On 5/8/2019 at 10:25 AM, chatty83 said:

Why would you give the ending away to your books before you sell them?

makes no sense unless he has actually given up on finishing them. I think if they get done they'll be different, some similarities but different mostly.

For millions and millions of dollars plus a cut of the take, of course.

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On 5/7/2019 at 6:29 PM, martianmister said:

How much difference do you think there will be between the books' and the show's finales? Martin once claimed that even though the books and the show follows different paths, their endgames will be same. Is it still the case, or shall we expect different winners on throne?

There will be one very, very large difference: everything will make sense.

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Just now, Jabar of House Titan said:

Not quite sure how the Bloodmoon prequel is going to work with the mess that the Two Stooges have made.

How on Earth is Jane Goldman going to explain all of the magic that was such an important part to the original Long Night only for it to just peter out and vanish inexplicably by the time the Second Long Night came around.

I don t understand why any sane person would release a show called the long night next year…

GOT ruined any chance of it being taken seriously… People will always be saying "just stab the guy". And then it is too close to the theme of GOT... It will have too many comparisons for it to become its own show.

 

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Just now, Hodor's Dragon said:

There will be one very, very large difference: everything will make sense.

I don t know if that will be the only diference. I just don t see the wildlings going north of the Wall for exemple. It would make no sense… They can t survive winter there without preparations, it would mean the wildlings would return to what they were in the beguining of the series (enemies of westeros and the NW if it still exists), there is too much free space in the north, jon is incorporating them in the north, the Wall wil either not exist or the ww will still be a threat so it would be stupid for them to go north of the Wall, they don t have a reason to leave the gift...

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5 minutes ago, divica said:

I don t understand why any sane person would release a show called the long night next year…

GOT ruined any chance of it being taken seriously… People will always be saying "just stab the guy". And then it is too close to the theme of GOT... It will have too many comparisons for it to become its own show.

Exactly

They are better off doing a Dunk and Egg prequel. Not only will it be funny and lighthearted, there will be no magic so it won't make everything worse.

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Just now, Jabar of House Titan said:

Exactly

They are better off doing a Dunk and Egg prequel. Not only will it be funny and lighthearted, there will be no magic so it won't make everything worse.

The can have the andal invasion, some story about one of the targ kings, even a story about rhaegal would be good...

The long night sounds like a remake of GOT using the ww that the original series turned into a joke...

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1 minute ago, divica said:

The can have the andal invasion, some story about one of the targ kings, even a story about rhaegal would be good...

The long night sounds like a remake of GOT using the ww that the original series turned into a joke...

At this point, I don't even want to see anything with the Targaryens. This whole thing with Daenerys put a bad taste in my mouth.

I'd rather see them do the story of Princess Nymeria, the Grand Rhoynish Migration and the unification of Dorne.

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10 minutes ago, divica said:

I don t know if that will be the only diference. I just don t see the wildlings going north of the Wall for exemple. It would make no sense… They can t survive winter there without preparations, it would mean the wildlings would return to what they were in the beguining of the series (enemies of westeros and the NW if it still exists), there is too much free space in the north, jon is incorporating them in the north, the Wall wil either not exist or the ww will still be a threat so it would be stupid for them to go north of the Wall, they don t have a reason to leave the gift...

I'm not saying there's just one difference, I'm just saying that is the one difference I would bet on.

To me, you can't get the difference I am talking about (i.e., everything making sense) without a whole bunch else different. In fact, I'd make so bold as to say that most of the major plot points from seasons 6-8 won't be there.

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3 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

At this point, I don't even want to see anything with the Targaryens. This whole thing with Daenerys put a bad taste in my mouth.

I'd rather see them do the story of Princess Nymeria, the Grand Rhoynish Migration and the unification of Dorne.

Good point. I don t want to have another story about how a main character might go insane and burn everything or not...

Just now, Hodor's Dragon said:

To me, you can't get the difference I am talking about (i.e., everything making sense) without a whole bunch else different. In fact, I'd make so bold as to say that most of the major plot points from seasons 6-8 won't be there.

I have talked about this several times. In the books we need either a diferent story (s6-8) or a diferent ending from the show… The 2 just don t combine...

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On 5/7/2019 at 9:29 PM, martianmister said:

How much difference do you think there will be between the books' and the show's finales? Martin once claimed that even though the books and the show follows different paths, their endgames will be same. Is it still the case, or shall we expect different winners on throne?

Interesting question. Thanks for bringing it up.

Numerous ways to look at it. I don't remember which season HBO had to scramble due to lack of ASOIAF book material.

Now that I am nearly at the end, one more show, I find it curious that individuals are so upset.

Years of people using the show to try to validate their opinions about how martin is gonna write his book story.

Years of repeating the book and show are two different vessels, BUT major plot points going to end the same.

Where am I at the end of Dance with Dragons?

LC Jon Snow has been stabbed.
Dany is wandering round because Drogon has whisked her away to be found by a Khal.
Stannis is hold up at a crofter's village.
Bolton's and northmen in Winterfell.

Beric is dead. Sandor is on the Quiet Isle.
Brienne has been captured by Lady Stone Heart and sent on a mission to Jaime to her.
The Other's haven't breached the Wall.
Sansa is in the Vale and Arya is in Braavos.


Yet, according to the show Jon lives, Bran leaves the Children of the Forest cave, Sansa goes to Winterfell, Arya returns home, Dany travels to Westeros, Jon's parentage is revealed, and the Other's are defeated.

What are people getting so upset about? Dany has from the beginning wanted to reinstate Targ rule of Westeros. I have no problem with S8E5 except the whole "mad" thing that fans latch onto.  My interpenetration is that Dany is not mad as in insane, she is mad as in angry.

Yes, I can see martin telling the broad strokes of the ending of his tale that martin has not written. I can also understand why HBO wanted to put a quick end to the tale. After all an adaption can't be made without an authors material.

This will carry on until martin tells his tale. Even then people are going to get upset. All HBO can do is end it and all martin can do is write it.

One last thing, the show character the Night King is not in martin's book. So, I'm guessing that character will be Melisandre's R'hilor.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, divica said:

I don t know if that will be the only diference. I just don t see the wildlings going north of the Wall for exemple. It would make no sense… They can t survive winter there without preparations...

I think implication here is that winter is over as we're in "A dream of a spring" territory now.

Edited by martianmister

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Posted (edited)
Just now, martianmister said:

I think implication here is that winter is over and we're in "A dream of a spring" territory right now.

So you are saying that in the books winter will end with the other's defeat? It is unlikely but possible…

But I still don t see the wildlings returning north so that in time they can restart their feud with the 7 kingdoms (the NW would be over). Whatever happens it must be a step forward to end a stupid conflict that doesn t really make sense after the ww… Otherwise it would feel like conflict and war is always inevetibale and things don t change

Edited by divica

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I would like a better understanding of the prophecys "the dragon must have three heads"... "Azor Ahai"... "To go north, you must go south...".... "The prince that was promised"... "A song of Ice and Fire"... I'm just naming a few.. these to me, feel unanswered by the tv show.

The I want to see the Wargs at their full potential, and like George stated, all the Starks are Wargs to some degree, I want to see Jon, Arya, Bran and Rickon use this ability to it's full capacity. I always felt like the show gave Bran a superpower but killed it before we had the potential to see it fully used.

If Jon survives, I want to see him proper bonded with a dragon, like it would be in the books.. No way would a bonded dragon head off with someone else (like Rhaegal did with Danny). 

I'm looking forward to how Rickon, Victorians and fAegon storylines will play out and merge with the original story. We still have the Dornish to consider and they are siding with fAegon at the moment. Rickon should be on Skagos (with the unicorn things and cannibles) about to be found by Davos. Creepy Victorian has the dragon binder horn and is just arriving at Meereen. To me I don't know who is worse out of the Greyjoy brothers Victorian or Euron. 

Books have a beginning, a middle and an end.. I don't read books solely for the end, its how we get there that makes a good story.. the ends might be similar.. but if we look at Georges original draftlines for the books, and how much he has changed the story since then the end might be similar but i think there is too many varibles for it to be the same.

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I've got this horrible horrible feeling that  GRRM is taking in all the negative reaction to the show and thinking, "Shit, everyone hates my plotlines, so I'd better go back and rewrite my nearly completed drafts of both books". :bang:

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Posted (edited)
On 5/18/2019 at 10:10 AM, hallam said:

The logical time to announce the book would be next week. But GRRM says he still isn't finished with Book 6. All we know is that it is now two volumes.

Do we know this? He said on his blog that the publishers were considering splitting it into two but that he was strongly resisting it; has that changed?

Edited by Chris is my name

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1 hour ago, Chris is my name said:

Do we know this? He said on his blog that the publishers were considering splitting it into two but that he was strongly resisting it; has that changed?

He resisted splitting the other books as well. They published them as one volume in hardback but they are now sold as two.

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