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Books vs Show: How much difference?

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4 hours ago, azor_ahaiii said:

You'll find you're in the minority

People pretend like books 4 and 5 are awesome now but just a few years back huge chunks of them were relentlessly shat on. Quentyn and Brienne especially.

Quentyn isn’t even in AFFC’s, which is a book I love as well. 

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3 hours ago, Gendarrion said:

an awful lot will disagree on that, even the ones who hates Dany or their pairing thinks it's inevitable.

On a side note I think Jons true parentage will be something for the reader to deduce (have deduced) and Bran maybe but every pov character will remain oblivious to it. So if they rally to Jon while fearing or having suspicion of the other Targaryens the reader will have the delicious knowledge of Jon also being a Targ one every one has put their faith in.

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2 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

I think that the end will be almost the same:

- Dany becomes mad and dies

- Jon leaves beyond the Wall

- Bran becomes the king and from now onwards kings are elected

- Tyrion becomes the hand

- Sam and Davos are parts of the small council

- Arya leaves the civilization

- Sansa is the future of House Stark

- the North becomes independent

- Gendry is the lord of Stormlands, Edmure is the lord of Riverlands

- Jaime and Cersei probably die but not this way

- Dorne will be different for obvious reasons, the Iron Islands maybe too

 

Nobody is going north of the wall in the books. The wildlings have wanted to go south for generations and now they have the lands in the gift... There is even a wildling married to a karstark... JON GOING NORTH OF THE WALL MAKES NO Sense. 

Kings can t be elected among any noble house. It would lead to infinite backstabbing politics and sooner or later someone would just end that idea while they are king... 

Sam has no qualification to be in the small council and has a mistress... 

Sansa looks like will marry some valemen... 

The last we know of bran he will never leave a cave... 

And Danny won t go mad after the ww because grrm would need an entire book to explain the events of the last 3 eps... 

 

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2 minutes ago, the tower of albion said:

On a side note I think Jons true parentage will be something for the reader to deduce (have deduced) and Bran maybe but every pov character will remain oblivious to it. So if they rally to Jon while fearing or having suspicion of the other Targaryens the reader will have the delicious knowledge of Jon also being a Targ one every one has put their faith in.

Before this season one of my theories was that Jon would end up as king because of the things he does rather than who his parents are.

Then at the end people find out that despite all lies and schemes the rightful heir became king... 

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, the tower of albion said:

Who thinks Dany goes mad in the books? I for one don't. George who won't even say whether Jon is dead or gravely injured most likely has told the show runners squat. Folks are just jumping to the conclusion that Dany goes mad because the the show runners decision to do that.  Boy are you all going to be surprised in 10 to 15 years when a dream of spring comes out and the actual book finale is a reward for our literary investment.

I definitely don't think you see this Jekyll and Hyde thing. Even when the situation in Mereen was dire, she did not countenance killing the cup-bearer hostages. The show runners made her burn the small folk to expedite the events of E6 and reduce backlash against them.

In the books her 'descent' will likely involve misunderstanding, propaganda/misinformation, bad/malicious advice, some bad decisions on her own part all slowly building into paranoia and maybe what others perceive as 'madness'. Most steps on the way would have been well intentioned. We have to remember she was not tutored by Maesters and scholars. She was the beggar king's sister, then Khal Drago's child bride and a teenage 'Mother of Dragons' in the red waste. Ser Barristan is too gentle, or thinks it's not his place, to correct her misconceptions, so she might have some uneducated ideas coming to Westeros. Sadly, I think we have to accept that her personal arc is going to be a tragic one.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree, I'm not one of the haters trolling the forums since E5 telling everyone they knew it all along.

Edited by Ser Hedge

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

I do. For GRRM it will make for great writing. We'll get her POVs where she believes herself to be perfectly sane and rational and justifies her deeds, whilst other chapters will give us the POVs of main characters increasingly horrified by her actions. We'll get Tyrion, Jon and others slowly coming round to see her as she is, or becomes. I'm sure GRRM has been absolutely relishing writing those chapters.

Dany needs a turning point in the booksto make me believe her decent into madness. Light from Death Note had one of these early on. Dany needs a completely innocent person who is only guilty or a threat in her mind.

Edited by sifth

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3 minutes ago, divica said:

Before this season one of my theories was that Jon would end up as king because of the things he does rather than who his parents are.

Then at the end people find out that despite all lies and schemes the rightful heir became king... 

I always thought that Jon os not legitimized.

Rhaegar wouldnt have anulled his marriage.

Therefore i think Jon's heritage IS more about his blood than his right.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Ser Hedge said:

I definitely don't think you see this Jekyll and Hyde thing. Even when the situation in Mereen was dire, she did not countenance killing the cup-bearer hostages. The show runners made her burn the small folk to expedite the events of E6 and reduce backlash against them.

In the books her 'descent' will likely involve misunderstanding, propaganda/misinformation, bad/malicious advice, some bad decisions on her own part all slowly building into paranoia and maybe what others perceive as 'madness'. Most steps on the way would have been well intentioned. We have to remember she was not tutored by Maesters and scholars. She was the beggar king's daughter, then Khal Drago's child bride and a teenage 'Mother of Dragons' in the red waste. Ser Barristan is too gentle, or thinks it's not his place, to correct her misconceptions, so she might have some uneducated ideas coming to Westeros. Sadly, I think we have to accept that her personal arc is going to be a tragic one.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree, I'm not one of the haters trolling the forums since E5 telling everyone they knew it all along.

I think she will burn Mereen and arrive in westeros with a very dark state of mind. However the others will force her to stop her war for the IT and then everything can happen to her. 

I won t find strange if she dies fighting the others or if all the death and suffering change her into someone nicer. 

I highly doubt she and Jon will fall in love and Jon has to kill her because she is insane.. 

Edited by divica

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I think GRRM intended a lot different, as he takes his time over character development and detail, which the show gets rid of to favour action blockbuster style sensation over depth.

As I don't believe there will be another official ASOIAF novel, it doesn't really matter. It ends as it ended.

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26 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

I do. For GRRM it will make for great writing. We'll get her POVs where she believes herself to be perfectly sane and rational and justifies her deeds, whilst other chapters will give us the POVs of main characters increasingly horrified by her actions. We'll get Tyrion, Jon and others slowly coming round to see her as she is, or becomes. I'm sure GRRM has been absolutely relishing writing those chapters.

I agree with this.  It was always interesting to me that we had no other point of view character watching Dany, so we only had her own thoughts on her actions.  (Remember we only get Barristan chapters when she's not in Meereen.)  I think once we get another point of view watching her we'll see a different character evolving.  I look forward to it.

16 minutes ago, Ser Hedge said:

I definitely don't think you see this Jekyll and Hyde thing. Even when the situation in Mereen was dire, she did not countenance killing the cup-bearer hostages. The show runners made her burn the small folk to expedite the events of E6 and reduce backlash against them.

In the books her 'descent' will likely involve misunderstanding, propaganda/misinformation, bad/malicious advice, some bad decisions on her own part all slowly building into paranoia and maybe what others perceive as 'madness'. Most steps on the way would have been well intentioned. We have to remember she was not tutored by Maesters and scholars. She was the beggar king's sister, then Khal Drago's child bride and a teenage 'Mother of Dragons' in the red waste. Ser Barristan is too gentle, or thinks it's not his place, to correct her misconceptions, so she might have some uneducated ideas coming to Westeros. Sadly, I think we have to accept that her personal arc is going to be a tragic one.

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree, I'm not one of the haters trolling the forums since E5 telling everyone they knew it all along.

I think this will also be a factor, and her story will end in tragedy.

At this stage, I'm still of the view that Jon was melded with Aegon's in the show.  I think he was robbed of his destiny in defeating the Others on the show, but it's still the reason why his being Ice & Fire is important in the books.  The hidden prince who remains hidden but saves the land from the existential threat is exactly what I thought his arc would be, but I still think that threat is the Others.  Dany may be his Nissa Nissa, or maybe it will be Val?  I don't know, but, again, I look forward to finding out.  

Sansa being Queen in da Norf - I hope not.  It's possible, I suppose, but I dislike it as everything about her written arc screams staying south and playing the game of thrones. Sansa's role in the North in show never felt right in any way to me.

I can't wrap my head around Bran as King in the south.  If he leaves the cave (and until I see it in the books, I don't believe it), King in the North maybe, or advisor to Rickon.  His powers matter in the books, and yet we've seen precious little of them in the show apart from helping to drive Dany to despair, and that makes no sense to me.

Arya - I don't know.  I love her book character, and I hope she comes back from the brink she's getting to.  No, I don't believe she'll kill the leader of the Others - I think that's rank BS and I hate it.  We know she won't be serving up Frey pies because Lord Manderly has already done that, and it'll be Lady Stoneheart and the BwB who deal with the rest of the Freys.  Nymeria and her pack may well be involved with that, so Arya may participate in that by warging and she may see LS through Nymeria's eyes and understand the horror of being revenge-driven.  That's just a supposition, obviously, but I do feel LS will have an impact on one or more of her children yet.

I think we lost a great deal by D&D not adapting LS, Aegon, etc. In fairness, they probably had no idea how to write these without the book material - they clearly do not have the kind of competence or intelligence.

 

 

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9 hours ago, BlueNightzx said:

AFFC is my favorite book of ASOIAF, i very much disagree with you, and the quentyn chapters in ADWD are one of the best in terms of theme and development.

It's art, we can appreciate it differently. 

But I'm not holding my breath for Winds of Winter being the holy grail that will put all the GoT screw-ups behind us. Remember all the other storylines it has to close: Lady Stonehart, fAegon, Northern Conspiracy. It's gonna be even more complicated than the show to wrap it all up.

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20 hours ago, Chris is my name said:

Which market are you in? In the States they are still generally sold as one volume.

And if it were to be split, I would personally rather the actual narrative be cut in two, rather than splitting POVs on the same timeline (like AFFC/ADWD.)

But as of today he is ". . .back home again now, and back once more in Westeros, working on WINDS… which, let me add once more, has NOT been finished and hidden away for years.  (sigh) " http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/19/more-stuff-more-nonsense/

A seven volume boxed set of GoT appeared in my feed on sale at Amazon so I clicked thinking it was going to be 'due whenever'. Nope, it is books 1-5.

 

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7 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

I think that Brienne+Jaime will happen in the books too although under difference circumstances. Brienne becoming Kingsguard is a bit of reach though. Not sure about unCat, because iirc it was confirmed by GRRM that Brienne decided to save herself and allegedly go kill Jaime in her last chapter, so unless she returns back to unCat and unCat captures her, not sure if Brienne dies this way.

 

When?

 

Dany kept mentioning that she couldn’t have children, both on the boat with Jon and in the dragon pit. Jon even suggested that Mirri had been lying to her.

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36 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Dany kept mentioning that she couldn’t have children, both on the boat with Jon and in the dragon pit. Jon even suggested that Mirri had been lying to her.

right. Thanks to reminding me.

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12 hours ago, divica said:

Nobody is going north of the wall in the books. The wildlings have wanted to go south for generations and now they have the lands in the gift... There is even a wildling married to a karstark... JON GOING NORTH OF THE WALL MAKES NO Sense. 

Tend to agree, I assume Jon will end up back at the Wall. The people of Westeros have no idea what the Others are, if there are more of them out there, how they came into existence in the first place. The Watch, whether the Wall is intact or not, is going to remain and become heavily funded by the realm.

If Earth was invaded by aliens and we managed to survive and win the leaders of Earth are not suddenly going to give up on Space defence, more money would spent on it.

12 hours ago, divica said:

Kings can t be elected among any noble house. It would lead to infinite backstabbing politics and sooner or later someone would just end that idea while they are king... 

I agree. I doubt it will last in the show. GRRM can end it like that in the books, but the world he has established means that the reader can take it for granted that such a system is not going to last or at the very least be abused by a smaller group of powerful Houses to remain in power.

12 hours ago, divica said:

Sam has no qualification to be in the small council and has a mistress... 

Given Pycelle was a very young man when appointed I don't have a problem with Sam becoming Archmaester as soon as he becomes a Maester given his connections.

Also him having a mistress is not a game changer unless a very religious King/Hand is appointed.

12 hours ago, divica said:

Sansa looks like will marry some valemen... 

If she marries again. We may be seeing another Jeyne Arryn/Elizabeth analogue.

12 hours ago, divica said:

The last we know of bran he will never leave a cave... 

I have no problem with Coldhands or another similar being carrying Bran back to the Wall.

12 hours ago, divica said:

And Danny won t go mad after the ww because grrm would need an entire book to explain the events of the last 3 eps... 

Would he? Madness is not necessarily the problem, others thinking she has gone too far and needs to be stopped is. I can see that happening, especially if she loses two of her Dragons, and many of her supporting cast from the last few books.

Cersei was not mad in the first book, questionably not so in the second or most of the third but the loss of both Joffrey and Tywin turns her into a paranoid mess. It does not take an entire book, it takes loss and being put into certain situations that send her over the edge.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Mihai Brasoveanu said:

It's art, we can appreciate it differently. 

But I'm not holding my breath for Winds of Winter being the holy grail that will put all the GoT screw-ups behind us. Remember all the other storylines it has to close: Lady Stonehart, fAegon, Northern Conspiracy. It's gonna be even more complicated than the show to wrap it all up.

Yeah, for all the (fair) complaints about this season and last season being rushed, GRRM's claim is that he can wrap up a much more complex version of the story with many, many, more characters and plotlines in two books. His pacing slowed down a ton in the past two books, and the story and writing got more bloated.  The sample chapters he's released from TWoW don't exactly show him ramping up the pace. And let's not forget that at this stage in the books, we're before the end of Season 5. Either this is an impossible task and we're getting 8, 9, or 10 slowly written books or the ending of the book series will be even more rushed than the show.

Also, yeah, the show's ending is like 85% George's ending. I'm sure he envisions some minor characters ending up in different places, and others he probably hasn't figured out at all, and I'm sure some of the Others stuff would be different, but I would bet that all the major characters (Lannister siblings, Starks, and Dany) end up in the same places as they do in the show. The ending, from Dany burning King's Landing on, feels completely thematically true to the books.

Edited by Caligula_K3

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Posted (edited)

Things that will be the same:

-R+L= J

-Dany taking over the 7 Kingdoms.

-Jon becomes a dragon rider.

-Cersei will become Queen,

-Jon and Dany will fall in love.

-Jon will find out about his true lineage, sDaenerys will to. The Realm will be torn (Ice vs Fire).

-Dany will go mad (and I actually believe the reasons for it to be the ones the show had; death of friends + hatred of the people + Jon being a Targ + she believing herself to be some kind of savior, destined to break the wheel and rule over all)

-Jon Snow will fight Daenerys.

-Jon will kill her. (Azor Ahai)

-The Iron Throne will be destroyed.

The rest I'm not really sure. I doubt the arcs of characters like Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion or Bran will be the same. My bet about the main difference between the Show and the Books endings is that the 7 kingdoms will no longer exist by the end of ASOIAF.

Edited by Ingelheim

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Books vs Show: How much difference?

Even though I am a Starkie there are a few things I take issue with. First and formost are the ages of Sansa, Arya and Bran.

In the show they had to deal with those three child actors growing into adults. Eight years.

Martin's books move slow. Five books and maybe the passing of three years time. Making Bran approximately 10, Arya 11, and Sansa 13 at the end of DwD.

Maybe martin's final two books will cover one & a half years.

While the years of hype say HBO and martin's tale have diverged yet through broad strokes end at the same place--

I can accept Jon goes north.

I can accept Dany dies.

Shyte, I can even accept the frekking clegane bowl that fans wanted and were given.

What gags me is Bran ruling Westeros, Sam earning a archmaester chain, and Sansa queen of the north.

BUT, having said all that, for me it is done until martin writes and someday releases his story.

HBO ending Game of Thrones quickly was a smart decision considering they had no material to adapt. FFS I would want out of a never ending story myself.

Cheers. :cheers:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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