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Books vs Show: How much difference?

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Massive, the books are well written and full of prophecy, conspiracy and subterfuge.

 

the show for some reason didnt want to use alot of the source material, i.e. dorne and the real greyjoy uncles

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I think same ending and the journey will be similar in a large brush strokes kind of way. Certain parts will come over better 

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probably in the books Drogon gonna kill Jon and Brann not gonna be king. But i doubt Martin gonna release the finale.

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Posted (edited)

So official confirmation it will be different. And a reminder that the characters that are cut off are still relevant (though no confirmation they'll make it till the end).

http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/20/an-ending/

Quote

How will it all end? I hear people asking. The same ending as the show? Different? Well… yes. And no.[...]

I am working in a very different medium than David and Dan, never forget. They had eight hours for this final season. I expect these last two books of mine will fill 3000 manuscript pages between them before I’m done… and if more pages and chapters and scenes are needed, I’ll add them. And of course the butterfly effect will be at work as well; those of you who follow this Not A Blog will know that I’ve been talking about that since season one. There are characters who never made it onto the screen at all, and others who died in the show but still live in the books… so if nothing else, the readers will learn what happened to Jeyne Poole, Lady Stoneheart, Penny and her pig, Skahaz Shavepate, Arianne Martell, Darkstar, Victarion Greyjoy, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Aegon VI, and a myriad of other characters both great and small that viewers of the show never had the chance to meet.

And yes, there will be unicorns… of a sort…

 

Edited by Squall

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On 5/20/2019 at 9:45 AM, Gendarrion said:

Remember that there's a reason why Viserys burn, she's threatening to kill her unborn child(and probably her as well).

I don't think so bro. Jon broke his vow to Ygritte and Jeyne poole, his sense of duty is a bit exaggerated by fans imo, Jon's also attracted to qualities of Val, fierce and independent type of girls who can take care of themselves, Dany is probably one of them. I also don't like the pairing man, but I think it's still inevitable considering they're at the same age, both are MC with both known lovers and a family.

You've got a point however if Jon is attracted to the qualities of Val then he should rather be attracted to Val than Dany you know ...

 

On 5/20/2019 at 9:37 AM, Jabar of House Titan said:

There was nothing that Daenerys could have done for Viserys

I'm almost absolutely sure that the Daenerys and Jon coupling is going to happen. It might be more one-sided (i.e. Daenerys head over heels in love with Jon but Jon only in it for the armies, the dragons and the sex) than it was in this mostly garbage can of a TV show but I think it's going to be there.

Does it matter? The simple act of allowing Drogo to do this wihout doing anything would mean she is guilty in Jon's eyes because that's exactly what Ser Florent did, he watched his brother burn. I don't see why Daenerys would even love Jon in the books though? She loves Daario because of how extravagant he is, Jon is a brooding teenager who has never once been described as handsome or pretty by Westerosi standarts. 

 

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5 hours ago, PirateVergo said:

Does it matter? The simple act of allowing Drogo to do this wihout doing anything would mean she is guilty in Jon's eyes because that's exactly what Ser Florent did, he watched his brother burn. I don't see why Daenerys would even love Jon in the books though? She loves Daario because of how extravagant he is, Jon is a brooding teenager who has never once been described as handsome or pretty by Westerosi standarts. 

It does matter.

What could Daenerys have done?

Viserys broke a sacred law that establishes a safe space for a warrior people, publicly threatened her life, her livelihood and that of her unborn baby (aka his nephew) and humiliated Drogo and Daenerys both in front of other khals.

She literally begged him to put the sword away. She tried to get him to stop and take a chill pill. Multiple times. And Daenerys felt bad about what had happened after the fact.

Like lol...come on, the Daenerys hate is unreal. Like seriously: what was she supposed to do? Allow herself to be carved up like a cake?! Explain how Viserys really didn't mean it even though he is literally piercing her navel with his sword?!

It was a lawful execution.

I think Jon is being oversensitive and a bit irrational in that situation with Axell (and by default Selyse too) Florent. Robb had just murdered and his body defamed, Bran and Rickon were presumed to have been murdered was not too long before and his "father" was executed for a crime he didn't commit that he also shouldn't have been executed for. Jon is dealing with survivor's guilt and how he wished he had been there for Robb, Bran, Rickon or Ned. Then he sees Axell and Selyse do nothing and he condemns them for not doing what he would've done in their situation. But Alester Florent's situation is completely different from the Stark men.

Daenerys will love Jon because she is very attracted hard, rugged alpha males. Drogo is Drogo, nuff said. Daario, like you said, is extravagant, manly and doesn't give a f---. Jon is brooding but girls like Daenerys like brooding men because they are so mysterious. Jon is also going to go through some changes to make him cold and mean in a sexy way. Daenerys won't be the only one falling over herself when it comes to Jon but I think that Daenerys' nose will be so wide open she's going to be the one to betray herself.

Daenerys is also likely to be enamored with Jon's sense of duty and honor.

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I think Jorahs arc will be dramatically different in the books.

George seems to be building up House Hightower as a big deal. In AFFC Sam mentions that one of Lord hightowers Sons has went east to get sellsails off Lyneese Hightower. So I think this sets up Jorah reuniting with his wife. Which links into the House Hightower subplot and him meeting Sam at Oldtown.

I refuse to believe that two of Danys dragons amount to nothing. There is no NK in the books and I can’t see them staying riderless until ADOS when Dany meets Jon. ADWD already has two attempts to take those dragons in the works. So I think Jorah might have a shot at taming a dragon.

Also, I don’t think he’ll die if Daenerys is fated to die at Jon Snows hands. His whole deal is protecting Dany. It would be the ultimate failure and tragedy. I do think it’s necessary to have a character who has been with Dany from the start around in the endgame. Greyworm doesn’t quite work in this role, which is far greater than in the books. Plus if they don’t want Jon walking away from this...he’s definitely going for the head.

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1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

<snip>What could Daenerys have done?

Viserys broke a sacred law that establishes a safe space for a warrior people, publicly threatened her life, her livelihood and that of her unborn baby (aka his nephew) and humiliated Drogo and Daenerys both in front of other khals.

She literally begged him to put the sword away. She tried to get him to stop and take a chill pill. Multiple times. And Daenerys felt bad about what had happened after the fact.

Like lol...come on, the Daenerys hate is unreal. Like seriously: what was she supposed to do? Allow herself to be carved up like a cake?! Explain how Viserys really didn't mean it even though he is literally piercing her navel with his sword?!

<snip>

Not only that, but it was patently obvious - BEYOND obvious - that Viserys was past the point of return and was going to get himself killed soon enough, likely along with her and perhaps Jorah as well. Even Jorah had already renounced his oath to Viserys and said he wasn't fit to be king.

Sure, Viserys was her brother, and she even had some wistful reminiscences about the good old days with him, but in the present day he was, and long had been, nothing but a torment and a threat to her. Even though she did her duty by him in every way, and did nothing to cause his death, I would expect her primary emotional response to seeing him die would be relief.

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12 minutes ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

Not only that, but it was patently obvious - BEYOND obvious - that Viserys was past the point of return and was going to get himself killed soon enough, likely along with her and perhaps Jorah as well. Even Jorah had already renounced his oath to Viserys and said he wasn't fit to be king.

Sure, Viserys was her brother, and she even had some wistful reminiscences about the good old days with him, but in the present day he was, and long had been, nothing but a torment and a threat to her. Even though she did her duty by him in every way, and did nothing to cause his death, I would expect her primary emotional response to seeing him die would be relief.

Why?

When Sansa watched Ramsay die, her primary response was pleasure. But when she watched Joffrey die, her primary response was shock and horror. When Jon watched Olly, Ser Alliser and their co-conspirators die, his was irritation.

Daenerys reacted with a numb sadness; like if you had found out someone you had just been speaking with five minutes ago died in a car accident. Like how most would act in shock.

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31 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

I think Jorahs arc will be dramatically different in the books.

George seems to be building up House Hightower as a big deal. In AFFC Sam mentions that one of Lord hightowers Sons has went east to get sellsails off of Lynesse Hightower. So I think this sets up Jorah reuniting with his wife. Which links into the House Hightower subplot and him meeting Sam at Oldtown.

I refuse to believe that two of Danys dragons amount to nothing. There is no NK in the books and I can’t see them staying riderless until ADOS when Dany meets Jon. ADWD already has two attempts to take those dragons in the works. So I think Jorah might have a shot at taming a dragon.

Also, I don’t think he’ll die if Daenerys is fated to die at Jon Snows hands. His whole deal is protecting Dany. It would be the ultimate failure and tragedy. I do think it’s necessary to have a character who has been with Dany from the start around in the endgame. Greyworm doesn’t quite work in this role, which is far greater than in the books. Plus if they don’t want Jon walking away from this...he’s definitely going for the head.

I agree. Mostly.

House Hightower is being built up to be a big deal. Not only in the actual book series but in the side stories found in Fire and Blood and The Princess and the Queen. Seeing the magic of Lord Hightower and his daughter Mallora clash against the magics of Euron will be a sight to see.

I reread Game of Thrones and I suddenly remembered that unlike Daenerys, Jorah saw what Mirri Maz Duur was doing in the tent. He was touched. Duur warned that no one is to look upon the "old and dark powers" of her spells. Jorah did. He was touched.

Jorah isn't a POV but his appearance takes a turn for the worse in every book. Not only that but his personality has begun to take a nosedive. Ever since he started hanging out with Tyrion, Jorah has gotten meaner and nastier. He is far from the charms of Ian Glenn. I can totally picture him trying to kill Dany in a "if I can't have you, no one can" way.

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11 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Why?

When Sansa watched Ramsay die, her primary response was pleasure. But when she watched Joffrey die, her primary response was shock and horror. When Jon watched Olly, Ser Alliser and their co-conspirators die, his was irritation.

Daenerys reacted with a numb sadness; like if you had found out someone you had just been speaking with five minutes ago died in a car accident. Like how most would act in shock.

Because her life and health were no longer in constant danger from his actions and she no longer had to maintain a hyper-alert status 24/7. Things had gotten bad between them. Some level of relief seems obvious to me.

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1 minute ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

Because her life and health were no longer in constant danger from his actions and she no longer had to maintain a hyper-alert status 24/7. Things had gotten bad between them. Some level of relief seems obvious to me.

You couldn't tell that she was relieved in a way? And you think her lack of relief is her fault or a sign that something's wrong with her and that it makes her unworthy of being queen?

Watch the following episode. Read the following Daenerys chapter.

 

(...yet Bran's lack of any sort of emotional reaction to any one thing makes him worthy of being king?)

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I'm confused as to what we're arguing about. I thought her reaction was "normal" to the extent there could be a normal reaction in such a circumstance. And I certainly have seen nothing other than the hogwash in season 8 of the show--which I'm simply not accepting as canon atm--to suggest she's not worthy to be queen.

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Just now, Hodor's Dragon said:

I'm confused as to what we're arguing about. I thought her reaction was "normal" to the extent there could be a normal reaction in such a circumstance. And I certainly have seen nothing other than the hogwash in season 8 of the show--which I'm simply not accepting as canon atm--to suggest she's not worthy to be queen.

Never mind. I'm confused too.

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7 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I agree. Mostly.

House Hightower is being built up to be a big deal. Not only in the actual book series but in the side stories found in Fire and Blood and The Princess and the Queen. Seeing the magic of Lord Hightower and his daughter Mallora clash against the magics of Euron will be a sight to see.

I reread Game of Thrones and I suddenly remembered that unlike Daenerys, Jorah saw what Mirri Maz Duur was doing in the tent. He was touched. Duur warned that no one is to look upon the "old and dark powers" of her spells. Jorah did. He was touched.

Jorah isn't a POV but his appearance takes a turn for the worse in every book. Not only that but his personality has begun to take a nosedive. Ever since he started hanging out with Tyrion, Jorah has gotten meaner and nastier. He is far from the charms of Ian Glenn. I can totally picture him trying to kill Dany in a "if I can't have you, no one can" way.

 

Yeah I mean Alysnne being from “the greens” as opposed to the Blacks? Bit of Mormont iconography peaking in there as well as the colours of two of Danys dragons.

I think Jorah will always be loyal to her. It now feels like foreshadowing when he claims that “there will be no man truer to you than me” given that a certain man she loves stabs her. I think in the final chapter he does snap out of his morass a little bit has become a more fearsome character. But he still cares for Dany and he does refer to her as “the Queen” implying he’s been chastised over disrespecting her. He has no reason to say that to Tyrion.

But, if Lynesse did show up, it would be a test of loyalty for Jorah. Does this woman, who is supposedly as beautiful as Dany (plus actually willing to be with him) more important than his duty to Dany as Queen? Jorah chose love over duty with Lynesse once, could he overcome that? 

As an aside I love how Maestor Aemons love vs duty doesn’t apply to Jorah. He has a genuinely clear situation where the woman he loves is his Queen. 

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13 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I agree. Mostly.

House Hightower is being built up to be a big deal. Not only in the actual book series but in the side stories found in Fire and Blood and The Princess and the Queen. Seeing the magic of Lord Hightower and his daughter Mallora clash against the magics of Euron will be a sight to see.

I reread Game of Thrones and I suddenly remembered that unlike Daenerys, Jorah saw what Mirri Maz Duur was doing in the tent. He was touched. Duur warned that no one is to look upon the "old and dark powers" of her spells. Jorah did. He was touched.

Jorah isn't a POV but his appearance takes a turn for the worse in every book. Not only that but his personality has begun to take a nosedive. Ever since he started hanging out with Tyrion, Jorah has gotten meaner and nastier. He is far from the charms of Ian Glenn. I can totally picture him trying to kill Dany in a "if I can't have you, no one can" way.

I think it is more likely that jorah will kill whoever might have a relationship with danny out of jelousy than actually hurting her… The most I think him capable of doing is try to rape her.

I have no idea how grrm will handle the hightowers, We are led to believe that they have magic but have no idea what they can do. But I don t know if they won t join euron instead of fighting him… It would be an interesting aliance that could have a real shot at having the IT or wanting something very sinistre (euron seems to want to become a god and have a baby worthy of someone…) 

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In the books, it will be more clear that Jon betrays Dany for the Starks, perhaps Sansa. Emilia suggested this in an interview this week:

“She thinks she can have it all with him, that he can give her what she’s been craving her whole life. And he turns out to be not what she thought and he will choose someone over her.” - Emilia Clarke, LA Times

Also foreshadowed in:

“What if Daario has betrayed me and gone over to my enemies?” Three treasons will you know. “What if he met another woman, some princess of the Lhazarene?”

- Daenerys, ADWD

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Something that stuck out to me when I re-read ACOK was when Maester Luwin told Bran he "truly was his father's son" as he lay dying. Even as a little kid, there was something impressive about how Bran was holding his own at Winterfell.

For a long time, I thought it was very likely that Bran would be king at the end. Once he became robotic on the show, I started to change my mind. Turns out I should I have just listened to my gut. 

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Something that stuck out to me when I re-read ACOK was when Maester Luwin told Bran he "truly was his father's son" as he lay dying. Even as a little kid, there was something impressive about how Bran was holding his own at Winterfell.

For a long time, I thought it was very likely that Bran would be king at the end. Once he became robotic on the show, I started to change my mind. Turns out I should I have just listened to my gut. 

At the very least his arc deserves his becoming Lord Stark of Winterfell. Maybe he can keep the title of Prince even in the style of the Dornish when an independent North is re- integrated.

If he becomes King, I'm sure the George will write it better than the stand up routine we got.

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Posted (edited)

Martin wanted 13 seasons, HBO wanted 10 seasons, D&D 7. Why would Martin wanted 13 if he did not finished the story ?

Why D&D couldn`t handle the plot for seasons 4,5,6,7 and 8 if Martin gave them material for 13 seasons ?

Why would anyone wanna leave his most successful project to move to a dead one ?

Edited by Pacala

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