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Fox Mulder

Gendry is not loyal

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Posted (edited)

To Dany. She is setting up a Stark ally as Lord of the Stormlands. Gendry is friends/lovers with Arya if Arya told him to raise his banners for the Starks against Dany he would. Forget the failed betrothal that has not happened yet at this point in the episode. I have no idea what Dany knows of Gendry but it can't be a whole lot if she gave him Storms End. That was not a smart move it was a noob move. What is next? Giving the Hound Dorne? 

 

BTW I don't hate Dany I just think it was bad writing. 

Edited by Fox Mulder

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Was it as bad as Tyrion promising High Garden to a sellsword?

And none of it will matter. There isn't enough time left for Gendry's loyalties between Dany and the Starks to be tested.

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First Gendry needs to be the Lord of Storm's End, and he is not currently. No house from Stormlands know him. He is a long term investment, not something she can use it right now.

In the long term, if he becomes Lord of Storm's End, he would do what Dany says, after all she made him a lord. Arya wouldn't, and couldn't say anything about it, she rejected Gendry's marriage offer after all.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Was it as bad as Tyrion promising High Garden to a sellsword?

And none of it will matter. There isn't enough time left for Gendry's loyalties between Dany and the Starks to be tested.

Last week I said that there wasn't enough time left to set Daenerys on a path to "madness", and that the show already had an actual Mad Queen in Cersei.

And...well... D&D managed. They did a really shitty job with it and essentially totally ruined a bunch of character arcs, and possibly the whole series by doing it, but they did it none the less.
They will certainly make the time for Gendry if they feel like it, no matter the costs to the show as a whole, but I do think that Gendry isn't important enough.

Edited by MinscS2

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14 hours ago, Fox Mulder said:

To Dany. She is setting up a Stark ally as Lord of the Stormlands. Gendry is friends/lovers with Arya if Arya told him to raise his banners for the Starks against Dany he would. Forget the failed betrothal that has not happened yet at this point in the episode. I have no idea what Dany knows of Gendry but it can't be a whole lot if she gave him Storms End. That was not a smart move it was a noob move. What is next? Giving the Hound Dorne? 

 

BTW I don't hate Dany I just think it was bad writing. 

She considers the Starks allies to her rule anyway, expect for Sansa’s ongoing snottiness. She has no real reason to assume Gendry would betray her for House Stark. 

I disagree it was a dumb move, given what she knows. It’s better for her to take the step now by legitimizing him than wait for Baratheon bannermen to fight it out amongst themselves, or risking Cersei realizing it’s vacant and filling it herself with someone loyal to her. 

Moot if Dany loses, obviously, but I get why she did it. 

I also kind of think it was a bit of a power play, considering how little she’s been shown any kind of queenly respect since she arrived in Winterfell. Kind of a remember who is actually in charge here move. 

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So long as Aegon Targaryen is one of:

The Warden of the North.

The queens consort 

The king. 

There will be no one "calling the banners" against the crown. 

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14 hours ago, Fox Mulder said:

To Dany. She is setting up a Stark ally as Lord of the Stormlands. Gendry is friends/lovers with Arya if Arya told him to raise his banners for the Starks against Dany he would. Forget the failed betrothal that has not happened yet at this point in the episode. I have no idea what Dany knows of Gendry but it can't be a whole lot if she gave him Storms End. That was not a smart move it was a noob move. What is next? Giving the Hound Dorne? 

 

BTW I don't hate Dany I just think it was bad writing. 

It's not bad writing. It makes him more loyal to him than he would be otherwise.  It doesn't have to create absolute loyalty to be useful. And he is the best known, living candidate to be Lord of Storm's End.

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21 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Jon isnt allowed to be Aegon Targaryen. The queen forbids it. 

That’s a good thing, though. Dany has spent literally years developing the idea that she’s the sole heir to the throne, and no one can stand against her claim. 

Knowing that there is another claimant will help temper her. He might not want the IT and be happy for her to have it, but that doesn’t mean she won’t have a challenge on her hands if she rules badly.

Theoretically at least.  

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1 hour ago, SuperMario said:

Was it as bad as Tyrion promising High Garden to a sellsword?

no chance in hell of that actually happening. bronn is nothing more than a useful idiot for the lannisters who will likely be killed by a woman/prostitute like he almost did in dorne.

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To me, Dany's raising of Gendry to Lord of Storm's End and then bragging to Tyrion about how she was smart too, was a move that came through the insecurities that being in the North has raised for her.  She has seen the deep-rooted loyalty that others have for the Starks (e.g. Theon, the Wildlings, the Northern Lords, the Vale Lords) and the strong relationships and respect between northern characters (e.g. contrast Sansa changing her position on Jaime after hearing Brienne vouch for him with Dany's treatment of Tyrion).  She is feeling isolated in the north, and even those characters closest to her (Tyrion, Missandei, Jorah) are very much her subordinates and not anywhere near to being able to speak their minds freely to her. 

I think that making Gendry a Lord either showed her anxiety to 'buy' herself some allies, or a complete misunderstanding of how the kind of relationships the Starks have with each other and other characters are forged.  Raising Gendry to Lord will never make him loyal to Dany in the way that Gendry is loyal to Arya because of their shared history and mutual respect, and Dany is not as intelligent as she thinks she is if she thinks otherwise.

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Gendry was legitimized in that scene so that he will be the last, viable heir to the Iron Throne after Dany dies and Jon rejects it.  

That's its only relevance to the story.  

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1 hour ago, Astrotherapist said:

Gendry was legitimized in that scene so that he will be the last, viable heir to the Iron Throne after Dany dies and Jon rejects it.  

That's its only relevance to the story.  

 

I certainly hope not - Gendry has no more idea of how to be king than I do; he's an illiterate blacksmith and fighter who doesn't know how to talk to lords let alone how to manage them.  

Gendry becoming Lord of the Stormlands with a noble-born wife who has the patience to guide and teach him (Arya if she changes her mind, Sansa?, an unknown Florent or Estermont girl?) - maybe.

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1 hour ago, Astrotherapist said:

Gendry was legitimized in that scene so that he will be the last, viable heir to the Iron Throne after Dany dies and Jon rejects it.  

That's its only relevance to the story.  

If Dany dies, though, Gendry wouldn’t become heir to the IT - he’s not Targaryen. 

He’d have to reclaim it by conquest for House Baratheon, as Dany is doing despite her claims that it’s hers by birth.  

He could potentially claim it as a Targaryen from a few generations ago, but there are also other recent-ish Targaryen bloodlines that could dispute him. 

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2 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

I certainly hope not - Gendry has no more idea of how to be king than I do; he's an illiterate blacksmith and fighter who doesn't know how to talk to lords let alone how to manage them.  

Gendry becoming Lord of the Stormlands with a noble-born wife who has the patience to guide and teach him (Arya if she changes her mind, Sansa?, an unknown Florent or Estermont girl?) - maybe.

And he hardly knows how to use a fork! :lol:  But he would be sympathetic to the plight of the common man --something Varys values very much.  Varys made sure Gendry went with the Night's Watch before the purge of Robert's bastards by the Goldcloaks, and it was probably Varys who got him the apprenticeship with Tobho Mott in the first place.  I think he's been a strand in the Spider's web, perhaps a back-up plan should the Targaryen restoration fail or become a bad choice. 

Gendry would do alright with a competent Hand....like Davos perhaps? 

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1 minute ago, Astrotherapist said:

And he hardly knows how to use a fork! :lol:  But he would be sympathetic to the plight of the common man --something Varys values very much.  Varys made sure Gendry went with the Night's Watch before the purge of Robert's bastards by the Goldcloaks, and it was probably Varys who got him the apprenticeship with Tobho Mott in the first place.  I think he's been a strand in the Spider's web, perhaps a back-up plan should the Targaryen restoration fail or become a bad choice. 

Gendry would do alright with a competent Hand....like Davos perhaps? 

OMG I adored that fork line lol. Can you imagine Dany admitting she doesn’t know something like that? Wouldn’t happen. 

Gendry would be an excellent king, assuming he made smart choices regarding his advisors. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

If Dany dies, though, Gendry wouldn’t become heir to the IT - he’s not Targaryen. 

He’d have to reclaim it by conquest for House Baratheon, as Dany is doing despite her claims that it’s hers by birth.  

He could potentially claim it as a Targaryen from a few generations ago, but there are also other recent-ish Targaryen bloodlines that could dispute him. 

He's the son of the late King Robert Baratheon with a better claim than those who actually followed him -- Joffrey, Tommen or Cersei Lannister!  His claim will be asserted on his behalf by someone, in the absence of a better candidate.  

Edited by Astrotherapist

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

OMG I adored that fork line lol. Can you imagine Dany admitting she doesn’t know something like that? Wouldn’t happen. 

Gendry would be an excellent king, assuming he made smart choices regarding his advisors. 

Who should be his advisers? Sansa - Hand? Arya: masters of whisperers?

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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13 minutes ago, Astrotherapist said:

He's the son of the late King Robert Baratheon with a better claim than those who actually followed him -- Joffrey, Tommen or Cersei Lannister!  His claim will be asserted on his behalf by someone, in the absence of a better candidate.  

If Dany sits the throne and reestablishes the rule of House Targaryen, House Baratheon has no claim. They can assert all they want, but they would have to claim it either by right of conquest, or by claiming illegitimacy of Dany’s Targaryen heir. 

If dany doesn’t sit the IT, then yeah he has a good claim. Presumably she didn’t legitimize him expecting she’s going to die before she sits the throne so in her mind it’s a moot point. 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Who should be his advisers? Sansa - Hand? Arya: masters of whisperers?

Davos as hand. The others, I’m not sure yet. I’d be cool with Arya as mistress of whispers. No Sansa. 

Lots of good options in the books but not so much in the show. 

Edited by The_Spanish_Inquisition

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