Sansa stark have no reasons to like Dany

[Tywin Tytosson]

3 hours ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

Well, she could say that all she wants and he could tell her to shut her hole if he wanted. She’s just banking that he won’t. 

We haven’t seen anyone in show argue against Jon’s decision to abdicate, other than Sansa and Lyanna Mormont, who is now gone. 

Dont get me wrong, I think Sansa is right to do what she’s doing, but her approach is not the beat and could potentially prove dangerous for her, if dany rules and Jon dies.  

Robett Glover in effect argued that by not honoring House Stark's summons.  Yon Royce was obviously not in favor of it.  And we heard the rumble of agreement from the Northmen after Lyanna's upbraiding of Jon.  But you are correct - we saw nobody else verbally take Jon to task for it.

Agree re. Sansa not taking the best approach.  You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, after all.

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

1 minute ago, Tywin Tytosson said:

Robett Glover in effect argued that by not honoring House Stark's summons.  Yon Royce was obviously not in favor of it.  And we heard the rumble of agreement from the Northmen after Lyanna's upbraiding of Jon.  But you are correct - we saw nobody else verbally take Jon to task for it.

Agree re. Sansa not taking the best approach.  You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, after all.

I agree about house Glover. I can’t imagine any other reason to even include that bit of information unless they meant it to imply the Glovers wouldn’t come because Jon abdicated. 

Yohn Royce is not a Northman and arguably shouldn’t even be there. Where the hell is sweetrobin, his liege lord? Lol. 

I get we’re supposed to understand the northern opposition to Jon bending the knee. It’s just hard to tell whether the outcry is really that intense of if the show is just glossing it over. 

[Targaryen Peas]

Isn't there a difference between being neutral and cautious and just not liking someone?

Sansa doesn't like Dany out of nothing.

Even if Dany helped the north for her own interest. She still is the one who did the first step toward her westerosi people.

I could have accepted a cautious Sansa, and that would have proven her being intelligent, and honorable.

But she is just playing the game of thrones against someone that is definitely not an enemy, and lost way too much to prove it. 

 

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

1 hour ago, Targaryen Peas said:

Isn't there a difference between being neutral and cautious and just not liking someone?

Sansa doesn't like Dany out of nothing.

Even if Dany helped the north for her own interest. She still is the one who did the first step toward her westerosi people.

I could have accepted a cautious Sansa, and that would have proven her being intelligent, and honorable.

But she is just playing the game of thrones against someone that is definitely not an enemy, and lost way too much to prove it. 

 

Dany has already done a few things that would leave a bad taste in Westerosi mouths, and that’s biting her in the ass now. 

She burned the Lannister train. She executed the Tarlys, by dragon fire, when by rights she should have taken them prisoner. 

She has struggled to understand that her methods in Essos won’t work for her in Westeros. She can’t crucify or burn her enemies here and be accepted. 

[Targaryen Peas]

1 minute ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

She executed the Tarlys, by dragon fire, when by rights she should have taken them prisoner. 

This is the only thing I would consider "bad" 

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

1 minute ago, Targaryen Peas said:

This is the only thing I would consider "bad" 

Jon has already warned her that most people will see her as more of what they’ve always had. 

Dragons have been effectively extinct for centuries. She’s not going to win people over by swooping in and burning enemies. It’s going to terrify people. 

Dany prefers to rule by inspiring fear. Westeros will not like her methods. 

[Raksha 2014]

7 hours ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

I’m making the assumption dany has or will legitimize him as a Stark. That puts him in front of Sansa for succession. 

If she doesn’t, then yes, Sansa precedes him. It’s still a dangerous game for her to play, though.  

Edited to add that actually Bran has a better claim than Sansa, I think 

 

Bran definitely has a stronger claim to lordship of Winterfell than anyone; but he does not want it; nor is he fit for it, he barely talks and spends too much time gazing into other places and times.  Also, he's crippled; which Northern culture might hold against him.  

 

[MinscS2]

Sansa Stark have no reasons to like Dany

Sorry, but this is an outright lie. 
Sansa has at least one, major reason to like Daenerys: Her bringing her army and dragons north to fight the AotD and save Winterfell and the entire North (the one thing Sansa seems to care about this season).

She also has several reasons for disliking Daenerys, but that's beside the point.
 

[Dex drako]

you know I all you "she saved North"  really have something wrong with you way of thinking.

Dany didn't say the north, they saved the world and each other together for a threat that faced all of then equally. heck with the way the show butched all you can easily argue dany and her army wasn't even needed. even then you talk about all the people day lost but what about all the people the north lost at the same time? now you are acting like the north should be thankful to just be Dany's  slaves.

do you understand how sick that thought is?

honestly this blind love for Dany is insane, Sansa not wanting to be ruled over by Dany is not some kind of power play so Sansa can have power.

honestly this will be so much better in the book where it won't just be the north and Dany's army that hold back the WW.

[Torienne]

2 hours ago, Targaryen Peas said:

Isn't there a difference between being neutral and cautious and just not liking someone?

Sansa doesn't like Dany out of nothing.

Even if Dany helped the north for her own interest. She still is the one who did the first step toward her westerosi people.

I could have accepted a cautious Sansa, and that would have proven her being intelligent, and honorable.

But she is just playing the game of thrones against someone that is definitely not an enemy, and lost way too much to prove it. 

 

I can understand a cautious and even an envious Sansa.

But the Sansa whose face expresses nothing but hate and disdain whenever she deals with Dany - and sometimes even with Jon: I can see no rational and even no emotional reason for this. 

This character-twist seems completely illogical and incomprehensible to me. - Unless this face is just the result of bad writing / bad acting / bad directing.

[Joey Crows]

11 minutes ago, Torienne said:

I can understand a cautious and even an envious Sansa.

But the Sansa whose face expresses nothing but hate and disdain whenever she deals with Dany - and sometimes even with Jon: I can see no rational and even no emotional reason for this. 

This character-twist seems completely illogical and incomprehensible to me. - Unless this face is just the result of bad writing / bad acting / bad directing.

Sansa has moved beyond caution and envy in her approach to life. She has learned hard lessons that have left her cynical and forced her to strive for a position of power and authority that ensures she won't be at anyone else's mercy. She spent a very formative time observing Cersei and the court in KL. She's learned to always look for advantages over her peers. And she's come full circle from the little girl who dreamt of the capitol because she saw her Northern upbringing as provincial. She now sees the North, her home, as an opportunity to be safe and in control. And to have that she must be in control of the situation. So Dany is an obvious threat regardless. The fact that Jon bent the knee to her only deepens Sansa desire to prove that the North, the Stark family, and her immediate circle are the most important things right now, and she's the only person smart enough to sustain that.

[Targaryen Peas]

1 hour ago, Dex drako said:

you know I all you "she saved North"  really have something wrong with you way of thinking.

Dany didn't say the north, they saved the world and each other together for a threat that faced all of then equally. heck with the way the show butched all you can easily argue dany and her army wasn't even needed. even then you talk about all the people day lost but what about all the people the north lost at the same time? now you are acting like the north should be thankful to just be Dany's  slaves.

do you understand how sick that thought is?

honestly this blind love for Dany is insane, Sansa not wanting to be ruled over by Dany is not some kind of power play so Sansa can have power.

honestly this will be so much better in the book where it won't just be the north and Dany's army that hold back the WW.

They can refuse being under her rulling. But plotting against? (which is what Sansa looks like doing)

She lost a lot, and the north too. But the north alone wouldn't have survived. And, compared to other rulers on Westeros, she took a risk fighting with them, when she could have played it Cersei. 

Sansa is ok being rulled by Jon. But not Dany, so she isn't independentist. Just thinking that Dany is a threat.

The whole thing isn't "I don't want to be ruled by X or Y" it is:

"Daenerys IS a threat" 

 

[KingMudd]

13 hours ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

Sansa is making a very poor showing here, IMO. She has no claim to Winterfell whatsoever. Jon was KitN, abdicated and is now (presumably) legitimized and warden of the north  

You have no clue what your are talking about. Sansa has one of the best claims to Winterfell. Sansa is Ned's heir after Bran and Bran has abdicated. This is why eveyone wanted to marry her to their children throughout the first half of the story and was a pretty major part of her storyline.

Jon is a Targaryen and also never legitimzed himself when he thought he was a Stark. He also never took control of Winterfell from Sansa when he was king. Sansa is Lady of Winterfell and Jon was allowed to be based there during his reign as KitN. Jon is now a nobody. Warden of the North is a just a title, Jaime was going to be appointed Warden of the East and he had no lands as well.

[MagicPen]

So after reading the OP i finally understood why Dumber and Dumber gave Arya the magical powers to kill the NK. This way there's room for justification for Sansa's toddler tantrum.

If Jon would have saved the north like the story clearly points since the first bloody book, Sansa would have no base in her claims, yet now she can say its dragons + zoomgz bad ass assassin Arya.

 

[MagicPen]

14 minutes ago, KingMudd said:

You have no clue what your are talking about. Sansa has one of the best claims to Winterfell. Sansa is Ned's heir after Bran and Bran has abdicated. This is why eveyone wanted to marry her to their children throughout the first half of the story and was a pretty major part of her storyline.

Jon is a Targaryen and also never legitimzed himself when he thought he was a Stark. He also never took control of Winterfell from Sansa when he was king. Sansa is Lady of Winterfell and Jon was allowed to be based there during his reign as KitN. Jon is now a nobody. Warden of the North is a just a title, Jaime was going to be appointed Warden of the East and he had no lands as well.

Except that nobody is who all the men want to fallow, not Sansa. So her technically having claim means fuck all, its why Jon was declared KIN in the first place, people value him more than Sansa.

Nobody proclaimed her the white wolf and the saviour of the North. 

[KingMudd]

13 minutes ago, MagicPen said:

So her technically having claim means fuck all

This whole story is based around claims. People didn't want the mad king anymore so Dany and Jon's claims mean fuck all then. People made Cersei Queen which makes all other claims mean fuck all then.

 

14 minutes ago, MagicPen said:

its why Jon was declared KIN in the first place, people value him more than Sansa

That's when the northerners thought he was a Stark and wasn't going to sell them out to anyone. He bent the knee after Dany decided to help. We haven't seen much of the northerners since this happened so we can't be sure how happy they are with Jon atm.

[Rose of Red Lake]

6 hours ago, Dex drako said:

honestly this blind love for Dany is insane, Sansa not wanting to be ruled over by Dany is not some kind of power play so Sansa can have power.

Exactly. I believe sovereignty is still kind of a thing. It's not Sansa's fault that the North doesnt want Dany. Forcing exhausted Northern soldiers to march south into a quagmire so Dany can get the throne isn't going to make them kneel to her. 

I don't think Sansa ever uttered a single word about her birthright or "my seat." She technically should have inherited the King in the North title but Jon usurped her. She also didn't get any public recognition for her contributions for getting Winterfell back. This was what Littlefinger was trying to point out to her, but she didn't take the bait. She didn't want that power; she wants Jon to rule and even called him good at it. 

Meanwhile Dany has used the possessive pronoun "my my my" "mine mine mine" "me me me" so many times, she sounds like Gollum. She felt entitled to what Sansa and Jon had worked for from the get go and only made the efforts to actually prove herself at Jon's urging. Now Dany is in Sansa's situation after the Battle of the Bastards, she is jealous that a man got the credit and instead of supporting him, tries to cut him off from his siblings by demanding that he lie to them. Dany now sees the Starks as an enemy because they could usurp her. This is the "villain is just a hero from the other side" in action. 

1 hour ago, KingMudd said:

That's when the northerners thought he was a Stark and wasn't going to sell them out to anyone. He bent the knee after Dany decided to help. We haven't seen much of the northerners since this happened so we can't be sure how happy they are with Jon atm.

He is a war hero in the North, but they're prickly. He doesn't gain anything by making Northerners march south for Dany. I think he will have to woo the North into joining the seven kingdoms. That means wooing Sansa - yes, romantically. Sansa being in love with Jon explains everything. People it call "irrational hatred of Dany" without noticing the clues from Sansa's side. Nutter says Sansa is jealous of Dany. Dany even said that Jon "loving" Dany bothers Sansa. I think this conflict will be resolved with a cousin marriage. Varys says that Jon is the only one who can bring the North back into the Seven Kingdoms. Well, he seals that tie through marriage. Jon as king ruling by himself isn't likely to happen. He needs a cunning wife. 

[Torienne]

29 minutes ago, KingMudd said:

This whole story is based around claims. People didn't want the mad king anymore so Dany and Jon's claims mean fuck all then. People made Cersei Queen which makes all other claims mean fuck all then.

 

"People" didn't make Cersei Queen.

People hated her intensely - if you remember her walk of shame. And people got atomized by her wildfire.

[Kajjo]

Back to the title question: Sansa has no reasons to like Daenerys

Yes, that is true. "Liking" someone is a very personal, individual issue and based on emotions. There can be people you respect, accept or work with quite well and you still don't like them. You cannot like someone because you simply want to like him.  So I can fairly easily accept that Sansa does not like Daenerys. They are very different types of women, Daenerys one is the girlfried of Sana's brother, Daenerys is wanabee-queen. There are more than enough issues that could cause not liking each other.

Why is it important whether they like each other? It's not, at least not as as fundamental issue.

The question is more whether Sansa respects and trusts Daenerys. She does not trust her and the two sisters have made clear that they don't trust her. Not because of the romance to Jon, not because of personal issues, but because of this greed for power, her ruthlessness, her commanding style and wannabe-queen nonsense. The sisters are right here.

Sansa should, however, be somehow grateful for Daenerys joing forces, offering her armies and dragons and helping to win the Great War. Daenerys and the North stood side by side and won together. This should count for something. But I don't remember Jon promising his troops to join the war against King's Landing. Daenerys joined the great War, because the Nightking was an essential threat to ALL not only towards the North. 

 

[Nightwish]

37 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Back to the title question: Sansa has no reasons to like Daenerys

Yes, that is true. "Liking" someone is a very personal, individual issue and based on emotions. There can be people you respect, accept or work with quite well and you still don't like them. You cannot like someone because you simply want to like him.  So I can fairly easily accept that Sansa does not like Daenerys. They are very different types of women, Daenerys one is the girlfried of Sana's brother, Daenerys is wanabee-queen. There are more than enough issues that could cause not liking each other.

Why is it important whether they like each other? It's not, at least not as as fundamental issue.

The question is more whether Sansa respects and trusts Daenerys. She does not trust her and the two sisters have made clear that they don't trust her. Not because of the romance to Jon, not because of personal issues, but because of this greed for power, her ruthlessness, her commanding style and wannabe-queen nonsense. The sisters are right here.

Sansa should, however, be somehow grateful for Daenerys joing forces, offering her armies and dragons and helping to win the Great War. Daenerys and the North stood side by side and won together. This should count for something. But I don't remember Jon promising his troops to join the war against King's Landing. Daenerys joined the great War, because the Nightking was an essential threat to ALL not only towards the North. 

 

That’s what bend the knee actually means. If the king or Queen is in need the ones bellow must answer his or her call.