Sansa stark have no reasons to like Dany

[Kajjo]

35 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

That’s what bend the knee actually means. If the king or Queen is in need the ones bellow must answer his or her call. 

Well, then it was an even bigger mistake of Jon. 

[King Jon Snow Stark]

1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Exactly. I believe sovereignty is still kind of a thing. It's not Sansa's fault that the North doesnt want Dany. Forcing exhausted Northern soldiers to march south into a quagmire so Dany can get the throne isn't going to make them kneel to her. 

I don't think Sansa ever uttered a single word about her birthright or "my seat." She technically should have inherited the King in the North title but Jon usurped her. She also didn't get any public recognition for her contributions for getting Winterfell back. This was what Littlefinger was trying to point out to her, but she didn't take the bait. She didn't want that power; she wants Jon to rule and even called him good at it. 

Meanwhile Dany has used the possessive pronoun "my my my" "mine mine mine" "me me me" so many times, she sounds like Gollum. She felt entitled to what Sansa and Jon had worked for from the get go and only made the efforts to actually prove herself at Jon's urging. Now Dany is in Sansa's situation after the Battle of the Bastards, she is jealous that a man got the credit and instead of supporting him, tries to cut him off from his siblings by demanding that he lie to them. Dany now sees the Starks as an enemy because they could usurp her. This is the "villain is just a hero from the other side" in action. 

He is a war hero in the North, but they're prickly. He doesn't gain anything by making Northerners march south for Dany. I think he will have to woo the North into joining the seven kingdoms. That means wooing Sansa - yes, romantically. Sansa being in love with Jon explains everything. People it call "irrational hatred of Dany" without noticing the clues from Sansa's side. Nutter says Sansa is jealous of Dany. Dany even said that Jon "loving" Dany bothers Sansa. I think this conflict will be resolved with a cousin marriage. Varys says that Jon is the only one who can bring the North back into the Seven Kingdoms. Well, he seals that tie through marriage. Jon as king ruling by himself isn't likely to happen. He needs a cunning wife. 

Jon and Sansa getting married is better story than what they seem to have planned. 

[Nightwish]

2 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Well, then it was an even bigger mistake of Jon. 

John's mistake was rushing the story with the NK. Since the NK was sitting at the other side of the wall with no means to pass it, why the hell was he going insane to defeat him? This drove him to Dany in the first place and from there it was a mutual agreement for the greater benefit. 

The writing is such a mess that this story doesn't make sense anymore. 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

7 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

John's mistake was rushing the story with the NK. Since the NK was sitting at the other side of the wall with no means to pass it, why the hell was he going insane to defeat him? This drove him to Dany in the first place and from there it was a mutual agreement for the greater benefit. 

Being honest no one really knew at the time HOW the NK would get pass the wall. The horn of winter story got absolutely obliterated in season 4ish. They were rightfully afraid. The problem was the reasoning behind the destruction of the wall. The showrunners wanted to make a spectacle and had to make Jon and Dany do stupid things and losing for no reason a dragon to the NK so he could pass the wall. So I put the blame on the showrunners.

 

 

50 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

That’s what bend the knee actually means. If the king or Queen is in need the ones bellow must answer his or her call. 

You are right.

[Rose of Red Lake]

25 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Jon and Sansa getting married is better story than what they seem to have planned. 

It would be GRRM's planning. But thank you for not calling it CRAZY

[Nightwish]

23 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

Being honest no one really knew at the time HOW the NK would get pass the wall. The horn of winter story got absolutely obliterated in season 4ish. They were rightfully afraid. The problem was the reasoning behind the destruction of the wall. The showrunners wanted to make a spectacle and had to make Jon and Dany do stupid things and losing for no reason a dragon to the NK so he could pass the wall. So I put the blame on the showrunners.

 

 

Me too. That's why I said that the writing is a mess, making no sense. 

What was Bran doing with his extra know-it-all powers? Watching soft porn of Westeros Vol.4? Because besides romance stories he had no idea about the NK and the aftermath. Useless. 

Anyway it doesn't make sense. The showrunners did say at the "Inside the Episode" that there was no other way for the NK to pass the wall so they gave him a dragon. Nevertheless I was astonished with their inconsideration for the characters. But, the damage was done. 

Technically it was John dragging Dany into this brainless NK story, implicating the North and Dany's forces. Without a serious reason. Because we as viewers, thanks to the show runners making it even worse, know it. 

I can't go on...honestly...this is so stupid LOL

 

 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

1 minute ago, Nightwish said:

Anyway it doesn't make sense. The showrunners did say at the "Inside the Episode" that there was no other way for the NK to pass the wall so they gave him a dragon. Nevertheless I was astonished with their inconsideration for the characters. Nevertheless, the damage was done. 

They honestly said that? What the fuck is wrong with them? What about the horn of winter? The horn of something else? What about the magic that holds the Wall together? They just throw everything by the window and forgot about it? I'm astonished.

[Nightwish]

4 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

They honestly said that? What the fuck is wrong with them? What about the horn of winter? The horn of something else? What about the magic that holds the Wall together? They just throw everything by the window and forgot about it? I'm astonished.

Yes they did.

Their stupidity is astonishing:

“The Wall’s kept these things out for 8000 years. There’s no real reason that it can’t keep doing that unless something puts a hole in the Wall,” explained showrunner D.B. Weiss in HBO’s post-episode rundown. “There’s one thing on the board from the beginning that is now big enough to do that, and that’s a dragon…Winter is here and it’s all hitting the fan from all directions.”

http://time.com/4918048/game-of-thrones-the-wall-viserion-ice-dragon/

So I suppose Bran was watching Westeros Soft Porn Vol 4 after all. LOL

[Ser Loras The Gay]

5 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Yes they did.

Their stupidity is astonishing:

Woah. I can't believe this. I don't want to believe this.

[Nightwish]

5 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

Woah. I can't believe this. I don't want to believe this.

Yes they make John and Bran appear like useless brainless delusional morons and they are actually proud it. 

“Hey fans winter is coming”

[MinscS2]

So basically, if Bran hadn't sent that raven to Jon, panicking about the AotD moving towards the wall, Jon wouldn't had freaked out about going back north, and Tyrion wouldn't had come with the crackpot idea of capturing a wight, which ultimately led to Daenerys going north and giving the NK a way to destroy the wall in the first place.

Well played 3ER, just when I thought you couldn't become more useless.
Oh ...wait...

 

[Nightwish]

35 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

So basically, if Bran hadn't sent that raven to Jon, panicking about the AotD moving towards the wall, Jon wouldn't had freaked out about going back north, and Tyrion wouldn't had come with the crackpot idea of capturing a wight, which ultimately led to Daenerys going north and giving the NK a way to destroy the wall in the first place.

Well played 3ER, just when I thought you couldn't become more useless.
Oh ...wait...

 

Exactly!!!!

Bran doomed them. 

Haha, this is so hilarious. I have started amusing myself with this crazy useless script, at least to get a satisfaction out of it because there is nothing left to do other than laughing at it. 

[madhikun]

The main thing that I don't like out of this whole Sansa storyline is that they have made her (and Arya) into the Lannisters 2.0. Why don't you like Dany? She's not a Stark. LOL okay that's logical. 

 

This season has actually managed to make me NOT root for the Starks. Sansa and Arya have always been brats (not sure if I'll ever forgive Sansa for humiliating Tyrion at their wedding and Arya has had no redeeming character development other than she can fight now) but their ties to Ned and his honor have always made them stand out from the crowd until as of late. Sansa and Arya are both just smaller versions of Cersei now. Sansa with the manipulation and Arya with the mercilessness. Really sad to see what their characters have become. 

[snow is the man]

Sansa is just selfish and has been made to be obsessed with power. What she does makes no sense. The north could not stand up to cersei or dany and yet sansa seems to think the north is invincible. Also when sansa broke her promise to jon so quickly and for no real reason I lost all respect for her. 

 

Dany fought the others with the north at great personal  cost to her and her army. And tyrion made sense when he said with jon in the south sansa would be the power in the north. I really don't get sansa anymore.

[sweetsunray]

On 5/9/2019 at 3:27 PM, Nightwish said:

That’s what bend the knee actually means. If the king or Queen is in need the ones bellow must answer his or her call. 

Actually it has never been that straightforward. During the Dance of the Dragons, Rhaenyra sent her sons to various parts of the kingdom to rally the lords to fight for her. And it were marriage offers that made them agree to it. More, NO ARMY fought South of Moat's Cailin without a marriage deal, except for Robb's (but he had to agree to a marriage deal with the Freys). They either got a Targ princess promised to them, or a Tully daughter, or a Lord Baratheon, etc... Marriage is the binding contract to make those bleeding for someone else, whether queen, king or lord, your future family.

IMO Sansa looked at this as

• Dany came north with dragons and armies to fight for the living in exchange for Jon bending the knee. Done, ok. That's the bargain.
• Sure, she didn't trust Dany upon arrival, and welcomed an outsider as icily as any other Lord of WF has done the past 300 years whenever a Targ dared to visit. But she apologized and warmed in epi 2 when Dany came to talk with her, and then smiling she brought up "so what happens after we get rid of Cersei?" (wink, wink, say no more, wink wink, hint hint)... And Dany's reply was "Oh, I'll be queen." Sansa can't say "OK, you want us to fight your precious throne. We'll do that if you marry Jon." That's so totally not her place to come and say that outright. But Sansa was basically making clear she wanted something in return, and Dany didn't get the hint, despite her saying she loves Jon.
• It gets even weirder at the feast for Sansa, when Dany makes a bastard (remember that Sansa still thinks of Jon as Ned's bastard at this point) she never shared a conversation with in her life Lord Baratheon of Storm's End, while Jon is still a bastard, without a castle, and only recognized as Warden of the North (a military title really), and thus unable to get taxes from any land. 
• Sansa makes herself scarce. It looks like she is annoyed, but she is also giving Jon and Dany space to resolve whatever they have going on that has not yet resulted into a marriage offer. Everybody gets drunk and retires to rooms that aren't always their rooms. That should do the trick, right?
• The next day there's the battle talk about going South to take out Cersei. Sansa wants to delay, sure for practical reasons, but I would assume she also wants time so these two finally get married. Hell, their own father Ned Stark didn't go to battle during the rebellion with Hoster Tully, before he bedded Catelyn Tully. But no, Jon agrees to leaving South ASAP.
• That's when both sisters want a word with their brother. They want to know what the hell is going on. "She's not one of us." It's a statement that evokes the natural reply, "She will be after I help her get the throne. We're going to marry," if there had been marriage talk between Dany and Jon, as both Sansa and Arya can expect. Except that's not the answer they get, so it becomes startling clear that marriage hasn't been talked of or is a problem. If Dany doesn't want to marry Jon, but wants him to fight for her South, then they want to make clear to him that while he may be in love, this Queen doesn't want to be part of their pack, and therefore she isn't. To them it would seem that Dany is manipulating him to do whatever she wants for sex. Dany could potentially drop him as her lover at a whim and decide to marry Lord Gendry Baratheon for all they know. No, they don't ever say that directly. But it's the logical subtext.
• Then they learn Jon's identity, and the puzzle pieces fall into place. Sansa can get why Jon isn't jumping to get into a marriage deal (because Dany is his aunt), while it becomes also quite clear why Dany doesn't want to marry, and that she's the one wanting to keep his identity secret: she doesn't want a consort or share power.

A lot of Sansa's frostiness is actually typically Stark and Northern. But the show absolutely failed several times in using the opportunities in previous scenes to showcase that Starks and Northerners in general haggle like fishwives. They had 2 opportunities to showcase this in Jon: book-Jon haggles with the Iron Bank as LC and with Tormund to let wildlings pass. The show dropped it. They had the opportunity to let Stannis do his tour around Houses to gather support against the Boltons. Instaed they had Jon and Sansa do it, to make Northern lords look like "The North forgets" instead. So, now when it becomes a crucial point of Stark ways of haggling for tit-for-that, no viewer gets it, unless you have knowledge of the books.

Anyhow, if the adience expected a marriage agreement between both Jon and Dany by the end of this episode, then so did Sansa. She already expected it at epi 2, when Dany proclaimed to love Jon, and basically anyone at the castle had seen those 2 frolic with dragons. And she especially knows that such alliances come with marriage deals - she herself was engaged to Joffrey to convince Ned to be Hand. Arya may not have thought of it before epi 4, but after Gendry proposed to her immediately after being made Lord Baratheon, she too is indirectly given a clue to wonder, "Euhm, what's up with Dany and Jon?"

[Raksha 2014]

5 hours ago, madhikun said:

The main thing that I don't like out of this whole Sansa storyline is that they have made her (and Arya) into the Lannisters 2.0. Why don't you like Dany? She's not a Stark. LOL okay that's logical. 

 

This season has actually managed to make me NOT root for the Starks. Sansa and Arya have always been brats (not sure if I'll ever forgive Sansa for humiliating Tyrion at their wedding and Arya has had no redeeming character development other than she can fight now) but their ties to Ned and his honor have always made them stand out from the crowd until as of late. Sansa and Arya are both just smaller versions of Cersei now. Sansa with the manipulation and Arya with the mercilessness. Really sad to see what their characters have become. 

 

I always applauded Sansa for humiliating Tyrion at their wedding.  She was a prisoner of Tyrion's family, married to him because his family decided it after his sister arrested and imprisoned her father and his nephew executed him.  It's not as if an agreement was made between Robb (the head of House Stark after Ned's death) and the Lannisters to make peace by marrying Sansa to Tyrion; Sansa would probably have obeyed her brother.  Sansa had endured months of humiliation and abuse by Lannisters; she did not want to marry into their family; but was not given a choice.  Her refusal to kneel to let Tyrion cloak her was a quiet protest against a marriage that was made not in the interest of her family, but in the interest of the family that was killing her own.

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

14 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

I always applauded Sansa for humiliating Tyrion at their wedding.  She was a prisoner of Tyrion's family, married to him because his family decided it after his sister arrested and imprisoned her father and his nephew executed him.  It's not as if an agreement was made between Robb (the head of House Stark after Ned's death) and the Lannisters to make peace by marrying Sansa to Tyrion; Sansa would probably have obeyed her brother.  Sansa had endured months of humiliation and abuse by Lannisters; she did not want to marry into their family; but was not given a choice.  Her refusal to kneel to let Tyrion cloak her was a quiet protest against a marriage that was made not in the interest of her family, but in the interest of the family that was killing her own.

Tyrion was also terribly treated by his family, didn’t want the marriage and ultimately was very kind to Sansa. 

I mean, I totally get why she did what she did under the circumstances, but Tyrion didn’t really deserve the humiliation she forced on him. 

[madhikun]

20 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

I always applauded Sansa for humiliating Tyrion at their wedding.  She was a prisoner of Tyrion's family, married to him because his family decided it after his sister arrested and imprisoned her father and his nephew executed him.  It's not as if an agreement was made between Robb (the head of House Stark after Ned's death) and the Lannisters to make peace by marrying Sansa to Tyrion; Sansa would probably have obeyed her brother.  Sansa had endured months of humiliation and abuse by Lannisters; she did not want to marry into their family; but was not given a choice.  Her refusal to kneel to let Tyrion cloak her was a quiet protest against a marriage that was made not in the interest of her family, but in the interest of the family that was killing her own.

I'm glad you think that and I do truly hope that was the reason why she did that. When I read it I purely saw it as Sansa being the brat she always was and couldn't stand being married to a short person. Tyrion from what I remember (it's been at least five years so I may be shaky) was always kind to her. She could have protested the marriage in other ways but from what I saw she purposely made fun of his height. 

[Tywin Tytosson]

On 5/9/2019 at 11:23 AM, MinscS2 said:

So basically, if Bran hadn't sent that raven to Jon, panicking about the AotD moving towards the wall, Jon wouldn't had freaked out about going back north, and Tyrion wouldn't had come with the crackpot idea of capturing a wight, which ultimately led to Daenerys going north and giving the NK a way to destroy the wall in the first place.

Well played 3ER, just when I thought you couldn't become more useless.
Oh ...wait...

 

Maybe the 3ER or something else (eg: R'hollor, Asshai sorcerers) was manipulating things to take a shot a the Night King?

No undead dragon, no collapse of the Wall, no attack on the 3ER, etc.   NK lives and Permanent Winter is still a threat.

Just brainstorming.

[Darksnider05]

1 hour ago, madhikun said:

I'm glad you think that and I do truly hope that was the reason why she did that. When I read it I purely saw it as Sansa being the brat she always was and couldn't stand being married to a short person. Tyrion from what I remember (it's been at least five years so I may be shaky) was always kind to her. She could have protested the marriage in other ways but from what I saw she purposely made fun of his height. 

You do understand Tyrion is a member of House Lannister and thus her enemy no matter what he says in that situation.  There can be no true kindness in that situation for her as she's a prisoner regardless of his intent.