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Aegon Targaryen and the IT

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Why does everyone say Jon won't be king? This seems to be a very popular thought.....I've always been of the opinion that he WILL rule. 

And don't give me this. "Jon just doesn't want the IT" BS. 

Oh, you mean like he didn't want the LC of the NW?! Ya, ok, we see how that worked out.

He will be a king (of the North or the IT, I can't say). 

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I feel like he's gonna get greased or end up going north...and since we have all heard the few theories about who rules at the end, I'm ok with there being a ruling council or somebody unexpected on the throne.  

I feel like they've been punching us in the junk over and over about Dany/Jon being unable to compromise and rule together, so I don't see both of 'em surviving.  A Dany-goes-batshit next episode seems likely and I think she may take a dirtnap.

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10 hours ago, Wik said:

Why does everyone say Jon won't be king? This seems to be a very popular thought.....I've always been of the opinion that he WILL rule. 

Well, he might, it is still a possibility. 

Personally, I even give him a reasonable chance to end on the Iron Throne. I bet more on him dying, though, and the Iron Throne being destroyed.

The end is open. We will have to see.

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1 hour ago, dannyk65 said:

I feel like he's gonna get greased or end up going north...and since we have all heard the few theories about who rules at the end, I'm ok with there being a ruling council or somebody unexpected on the throne.  

I feel like they've been punching us in the junk over and over about Dany/Jon being unable to compromise and rule together, so I don't see both of 'em surviving.  A Dany-goes-batshit next episode seems likely and I think she may take a dirtnap.

Ya, I feel like this happens and then Jon is kinda cowed into it by Sam and the others, JUST like he was for LC of the NW. 

1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

Well, he might, it is still a possibility. 

Personally, I even give him a reasonable chance to end on the Iron Throne. I bet more on him dying, though, and the Iron Throne being destroyed.

The end is open. We will have to see.

Ya, I just think Dany has been someone due to bite it and I think Jon survives and takes the throne. I mean maybe I am reading TOO FAR into it, but he IS Fire and Ice.....right??? 

And has 100% displayed traits of stability that Dany just simply doesn't. 

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I think Jon wont be King because it is a legitimate theory that he will be, and Dumb & Dumber seem to think that the way to write Game of Thrones is to "sUbVeRt ThE aUdIeNcE's ExPeCtAtIoNs", meaning that the King/Queen will probably end up being someone that makes zero sense, because D&D wanted some nonsense twist. 

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Perhaps there will be no IT. What if Dany dies, and each of the 7 kingdoms revert to independent realms as they were before they were conquered by the Targaryens? Jon would be KitN, Yara becomes Queen of the Iron Islands, and so on. I'm not convinced this will happen, but it's something to consider.

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12 hours ago, Wik said:

Why does everyone say Jon won't be king? This seems to be a very popular thought.....I've always been of the opinion that he WILL rule. 

And don't give me this. "Jon just doesn't want the IT" BS. 

Oh, you mean like he didn't want the LC of the NW?! Ya, ok, we see how that worked out.

He will be a king (of the North or the IT, I can't say). 

If anything he'll be the new "King Beyond The Wall".  

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7 minutes ago, Astrotherapist said:

If anything he'll be the new "King Beyond The Wall".  

:lmao:

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The way the show has been set up, yes it would make sense for him to be king. But because D&D are in charge, it won't happen and it will be Irri or some random character that is probably dead but magically isn't.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Wik said:

:lmao:

TORMUND: We need room to wander.
I'll take them back through Castle Black as soon as the winter storms pass.
Back where we belong.
JON: It's where he belongs too.
A direwolf has no place in the south.
Will you take him with you? He'll be happier up there.
TORMUND: So would you.
JON: I wish I was going with you.
This is farewell, then.
TORMUND: You never know.
You've got the North in you.
The real North.

Opening scene of SE1EP1: Rangers leave the tunnel from Castle Black and ride into the wilderness.

Final scene of SE8E6: Jon leaves the tunnel from Castle Black and rides into the wilderness. 

Edited by Astrotherapist

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56 minutes ago, Wik said:

I mean maybe I am reading TOO FAR into it, but he IS Fire and Ice.....right??? 

Open to interpretation, and there will probably never be a single conclusion. 

Melisandre said in S7 that she had "brought Ice and Fire together", referring to Jon and Daenerys, but who's to say that it actually refers to any characters at all? Ultimately, Ice and Fire are very prominent elements in this saga.

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12 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

The way the show has been set up, yes it would make sense for him to be king. But because D&D are in charge, it won't happen and it will be Irri or some random character that is probably dead but magically isn't.

"Yes. And, you know, the major beats. I mean, obviously, we're talking here about several days of story conferences taking place in my home in Santa Fe, New Mexico. But there's no way to get in all the detail, all the minor characters, all the secondary characters.

"The series has been extremely faithful, compared to 97 percent of all television and movie adaptations of literary properties. But it's not completely faithful. And it can't be. Otherwise, it would have to run another five seasons.

"I don't think Dan and Dave's ending is gonna be that different from my ending because of the conversations we did have. But they may be on certain secondary characters, there may be big differences."

-George R.R. Martin on 60 Minutes April 14th, 2019

I wouldn't expect them to deviate from Martin that much on the big stuff, major character resolutions like Jon's.  It's still essentially his story.  It would be flagrant disrespect on their part to disregard his major outcomes which would really bite them in their collective ass later when (if) he publishes his final two volumes.  He could also just come out and publicly denounce it if they did.  

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Astrotherapist said:

TORMUND: We need room to wander.
I'll take them back through Castle Black as soon as the winter storms pass.
Back where we belong.
JON: It's where he belongs too.
A direwolf has no place in the south.
Will you take him with you? He'll be happier up there.
TORMUND: So would you.
JON: I wish I was going with you.
This is farewell, then.
TORMUND: You never know.
You've got the North in you.
The real North.

Opening scene of SE1EP1: Rangers leave the tunnel from Castle Black and ride into the wilderness.

Final scene of SE8E6: Jon leaves the tunnel from Castle Black and rides into the wilderness. 

LOL, and then Tormund and Jon can leave happily and free their fierce romance. Hugging tightly onto each other the cold, stormy nights inside their small but always warm wooden cabin. Sometimes Ghost joins them at nights and finally all their enemies are dead. Only Bran is left to watch their little sins every night, cunningly smiling from the council room. THE END. LOL

Edited by Nightwish

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2 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

LOL, and then Tormund and Jon can leave happily and free their fierce romance at last at the woods. Hugging tightly onto each other the cold, stormy nights inside their small but always warm wooden cabin. Sometimes Ghost joins them at nights and finally all their enemies are dead. Only Bran is left to watch their little sins every night, cunningly smiling from the council room. THE END. LOL

Yeah I just read your scorn in the Ghost thread too.  You keep visualizing bestiality which says more about you than anything else. 

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5 minutes ago, Astrotherapist said:

I wouldn't expect them to deviate from Martin that much on the big stuff, major character resolutions like Jon's.  It's still essentially his story.  It would be flagrant disrespect on their part to disregard his major outcomes which would really bite them in their collective ass later when (if) he publishes his final two volumes.  He could also just come out and publicly denounce it if they did.  

And here we have GRRM essentially saying that subverting expectations just for the sake of it is bad storytelling.
That they surprise the reader/audience in the short run, but ruin the story in the long run.
If you put down hints and foreshadowing in character arcs, then follow trough with them. Don't make unexpected left turns just because the people watching/reading are starting to catch on.

Oopsie...

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Just now, Astrotherapist said:

Yeah I just read your scorn in the Ghost thread too.  You keep visualizing bestiality which says more about you than anything else. 

You are not serious right? Well if you can’t understand  humor and that I am sarcastic with the script, can’t help it. 

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32 minutes ago, Astrotherapist said:

Opening scene of SE1EP1: Rangers leave the tunnel from Castle Black and ride into the wilderness.

Final scene of SE8E6: Jon leaves the tunnel from Castle Black and rides into the wilderness. 

I don't subscribe to the "King-Beyond-the-Wall" part, but this would probably be the most beautiful and visually satisfying ending I can imagine right now. I could see him just sort of wanting to become free. He has lived by his duties all his life and died for them as well. I don't think it would be out of character for him at this point to say "you know what we're done fighting here, now I'm fucking tired, I just wanna go home and be left alone". He was always a Stark / a Northerner more than anything. After whatever goes down in KL, he might just want to get as far away from that place as possible, live his life in the North and hopefully go to Ghost begging for forgiveness.

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17 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

And here we have GRRM essentially saying that subverting expectations just for the sake of it is bad storytelling.
That they surprise the reader/audience in the short run, but ruin the story in the long run.
If you put down hints and foreshadowing in character arcs, then follow trough with them. Don't make unexpected left turns just because the people watching/reading are starting to catch on.

Oopsie...

The very nature of his work is subversive --of fantasy tropes, yet many fans expect those anyway, becoming attached to "the hero" character and favorable, winning outcomes, like Aejon taking the Iron Throne just as Tolkien's Aragorn took the throne of Gondor in the end.  

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6 minutes ago, Aderyn said:

I don't subscribe to the "King-Beyond-the-Wall" part, but this would probably be the most beautiful and visually satisfying ending I can imagine right now. I could see him just sort of wanting to become free. He has lived by his duties all his life and died for them as well. I don't think it would be out of character for him at this point to say "you know what we're done fighting here, now I'm fucking tired, I just wanna go home and be left alone". He was always a Stark / a Northerner more than anything. After whatever goes down in KL, he might just want to get as far away from that place as possible, live his life in the North and hopefully go to Ghost begging for forgiveness.

I don't either really which is why I couched that phrase with "if anything".  He has the leadership intangible and Tormund acknowledged that at the feast, but there's no need for it anymore, not in that setting anyway. 

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