There's Something about Leaf

[White Night]

Bran's last chapter in ADwD is full of little treasures that are easy to overlook at first or second reading.

 

When Leaf was asked about her speaking the Common Tongue she said

Quote

For him. The Bran boy. I was born in the time of the dragon, and for two hundred years I walked the world of men, to watch and listen and learn. I might be walking still, but my legs were sore and my heart was weary, so I turned my feet for home.

According to her statement, two conclusions can be drawn:

• She learned the common tongue specifically for Bran, &

• she knew about Bran for at least 200 years.

Even if we disregard this statement completely, the following quote by Bloodraven confirms the theory that Bran's arrival was anticipated

Quote

I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one**.** I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late.

 

This indicates that Bloodraven has been waiting for Bran since, at least, Eddard's birth, i.e., 35 years ago.

 

Another significant point is the hidden greenseers that Bran sees when he goes exploring deep into places that Leaf explicitly warned him not to explore.

Quote

"Men should not go wandering in this place," Leaf warned them.

 

And when he does wander, this is what he finds

 

Quote

He even crossed the slender stone bridge that arched over the abyss and discovered more passages and chambers on the far side. One was full of singers, enthroned like Brynden in nests of weirwood roots that wove under and through and around their bodies. Most of them looked dead to him, but as he crossed in front of them their eyes would open and follow the light of his torch, and one of them opened and closed a wrinkled mouth as if he were trying to speak.

Yet they refer to Bloodraven as the last greenseer.

The only explanation I find for this discrepancy is that, perhaps, it's to convince Bran that the survival of the human race depends on him completely in an attempt to prevent him from leaving.

There are many hints in the book that Bran was not the only person approached by the greenseers of the CotF's godhood.

First Bran's first falling dream:

Quote

Bran looked down. There was nothing below him now but snow and cold and death, a frozen wasteland where jagged blue-white spires of ice waited to embrace him. They flew up at him like spears. He saw the bones of a thousand other dreamers impaled upon their points.

Quote

Now, Bran, the crow urged. Choose. Fly or die.

We can perhaps conclude that those bones are the result of failed attempts to awaken the third eye of those now deceased.

 

In addition

Quote

Old Nan told him a story about a bad little boy who climbed too high and was struck down by lightning, and how afterward the crows came to peck out his eyes.

Quote

His favorite haunt was the broken tower. Once it had been a watchtower, the tallest in Winterfell. A long time ago, a hundred years before even his father had been born, a lightning strike had set it afire.

 

 

Another interesting observation it seems that only after a near-death experience that those chosen are first approached.

Quote

Every flight begins with a fall, the crow said.'

Quote

When I was little I almost died of greywater fever. That was when the crow came to me.' - Jojen

 

It seems also highly probably that Patchface was also approached by Bloodraven when he drowned in the sea, which explains some of his strange statements. Under the sea seems to be a reference to his near-death experience because that is where he actually was when he experienced those dreams/visions.

Quote

“Under the sea, you fall up,” he declared. “I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.”

Quote

 

"Under the sea, the birds have scales for feathers," he said, clang-a-langing. “I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.”

 

Quote

The crow, the crow. Under the sea the crows are white as snow, I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.

 

I think this is a reference to Bloodraven appearing to him as a fish as opposed to crow, since he's experiencing those dreams/visions in the sea.

Remember the description of the CotF's cave

Quote

A hundred kinds of mushrooms grew down here*.* Blind white fish swam in the black river.

Quote

“Old Nan says the children knew the songs of the trees, that they could fly like birds and swim like fish and talk to the animals,” Bran said.

 

There's also the many associations of death and blood with the CotF and their weirwoods, such as this quote from Jon's dream

 

Quote

The tree was slender compared to other weirwoods he had seen, no more than a sapling, yet it was growing as he watched, its limbs thickening as they reached for the sky. Wary, he circled the smooth white trunk until he came to the face. Red eyes looked at him. Fierce eyes they were, yet glad to see him. The weirwood had his brother’s face. Had his brother always had three eyes?Not always, came the silent shout. Not before the crow.He sniffed at the bark, smelled wolf and tree and boy, but behind that there were other scents, the rich brown smell of warm earth and the hard grey smell of stone and something else, something terrible. Death, he knew. He was smelling death. He cringed back, his hair bristling, and bared his fangs.

 

I'm not convinced yet that the CotF have an evil agenda, but I do believe there's more to them than they openly reveal to Bran, and, therefore, the reader. It seems highly unlikely that they are merely pacifist creatures resigned to their eventual doom in the world that men have made and are simply working diligently to help humanity at their own expense. This is not what would be expected of GRRM.

 

Quote

"Crows are all liars", old nan agreed.

 

[Karneol]

13 hours ago, White Night said:

Yet they refer to Bloodraven as the last greenseer.

The only explanation I find for this discrepancy is that, perhaps, it's to convince Bran that the survival of the human race depends on him completely in an attempt to prevent him from leaving.

There are many hints in the book that Bran was not the only person approached by the greenseers of the CotF's godhood.

This gives me Guardiansof the Galaxy vibes. 

 

13 hours ago, White Night said:

I'm not convinced yet that the CotF have an evil agenda, but I do believe there's more to them than they openly reveal to Bran, and, therefore, the reader. It seems highly unlikely that they are merely pacifist creatures resigned to their eventual doom in the world that men have made and are simply working diligently to help humanity at their own expense. This is not what would be expected of GRRM.

 

I agree with you: We don't know their true agenda yet and that's why it is to early to put them in the evil box.

IMO we will have to wait for the next Bran chapters to find this out

[OneFretfulTrout]

16 hours ago, White Night said:

For him. The Bran boy. I was born in the time of the dragon, and for two hundred years I walked the world of men, to watch and listen and learn. I might be walking still, but my legs were sore and my heart was weary, so I turned my feet for home.

Alternatively, this passage could also mean that she learned the common tongue for another little boy named Bran... potentially his ancestor? That would imply that the Starks had connections to the CoTF till recently.

What if Leaf is afraid that our Bran might come into contact with these old Starks?

This is just another tinfoil theory, but what if there really was once before a Brandon Stark who became a Greenseer, but wanted to use this power to become immortal (usually in fantasy novels there always is a foe who wants to be immortal)... maybe he started to take over the bodies of other humans or only Starks? We hear a couple of times from different characters that warging into humans is a severe sin, so what if this is based on an actual case? Maybe there is someone like that.... an anti-Bloodraven? 

[The Map Guy]

I think Leaf and the rest of the CotF are dead. Bloodraven is warged into zombie Leaf and moving her vocal cords to talk.

If Bran can warg into Hodor and make him say "Hodor" ... mind controlled zombies can talk too!

[Lost Melnibonean]

From the OP...

Quote

...there's more to them than they openly reveal to Bran...

You betcha there is. Keep an eye on that Snowy Locks. That's a shady one, all right. 

[White Night]

3 hours ago, OneFretfulTrout said:

Alternatively, this passage could also mean that she learned the common tongue for another little boy named Bran... potentially his ancestor? That would imply that the Starks had connections to the CoTF till recently.

What if Leaf is afraid that our Bran might come into contact with these old Starks?

This is just another tinfoil theory, but what if there really was once before a Brandon Stark who became a Greenseer, but wanted to use this power to become immortal (usually in fantasy novels there always is a foe who wants to be immortal)... maybe he started to take over the bodies of other humans or only Starks? We hear a couple of times from different characters that warging into humans is a severe sin, so what if this is based on an actual case? Maybe there is someone like that.... an anti-Bloodraven? 

Throughout the series, Starks have always been associated with cold and Winter. Something that can casually be dismissed as merely a reference to their climate, but it seems that there's a more a sinister tone to it, especially their house words, WINTER IS COMING. The name Brandon Stark seems to be especially associated with the magical cold elements, such as the Night's King who's rumoured to be a Brandon Stark. Also, Branden the Builder who's linked to the Wall and Winterfell. I have a feeling as well that Coldhand's name was Branden Stark. 

Quote

Your monster, Brandon Stark.

 

[Hugorfonics]

Reminds me of Euron

Quote

Euron stood by the window, drinking from a silver cup. He wore the sable cloak he took from Blacktyde, his red leather eye patch, and nothing else. "When I was a boy, I dreamt that I could fly," he announced. "When I woke, I couldn't . . . or so the maester said. But what if he lied?"

Victarion could smell the sea through the open window, though the room stank of wine and blood and sex. The cold salt air helped to clear his head. "What do you mean?"

Euron turned to face him, his bruised blue lips curled in a half smile. "Perhaps we can fly. All of us. How will we ever know unless we leap from some tall tower?" The wind came gusting through the window and stirred his sable cloak. There was something obscene and disturbing about his nakedness. "No man ever truly knows what he can do unless he dares to leap."

"There is the window. Leap." Victarion had no patience for this. His wounded hand was troubling him. "What do you want?"

"The world." Firelight glimmered in Euron's eye. His smiling eye.

 

[Gramse]

On 5/10/2019 at 12:40 AM, White Night said:

Bran's last chapter in ADwD is full of little treasures that are easy to overlook at first or second reading.

 

When Leaf was asked about her speaking the Common Tongue she said

According to her statement, two conclusions can be drawn:

• She learned the common tongue specifically for Bran, &

• she knew about Bran for at least 200 years.

Even if we disregard this statement completely, the following quote by Bloodraven confirms the theory that Bran's arrival was anticipated

 

This indicates that Bloodraven has been waiting for Bran since, at least, Eddard's birth, i.e., 35 years ago.

 

Another significant point is the hidden greenseers that Bran sees when he goes exploring deep into places that Leaf explicitly warned him not to explore.

 

And when he does wander, this is what he finds

 

Yet they refer to Bloodraven as the last greenseer.

The only explanation I find for this discrepancy is that, perhaps, it's to convince Bran that the survival of the human race depends on him completely in an attempt to prevent him from leaving.

There are many hints in the book that Bran was not the only person approached by the greenseers of the CotF's godhood.

First Bran's first falling dream:

We can perhaps conclude that those bones are the result of failed attempts to awaken the third eye of those now deceased.

 

In addition

 

 

Another interesting observation it seems that only after a near-death experience that those chosen are first approached.

 

It seems also highly probably that Patchface was also approached by Bloodraven when he drowned in the sea, which explains some of his strange statements. Under the sea seems to be a reference to his near-death experience because that is where he actually was when he experienced those dreams/visions.

 

I think this is a reference to Bloodraven appearing to him as a fish as opposed to crow, since he's experiencing those dreams/visions in the sea.

Remember the description of the CotF's cave

 

There's also the many associations of death and blood with the CotF and their weirwoods, such as this quote from Jon's dream

 

 

I'm not convinced yet that the CotF have an evil agenda, but I do believe there's more to them than they openly reveal to Bran, and, therefore, the reader. It seems highly unlikely that they are merely pacifist creatures resigned to their eventual doom in the world that men have made and are simply working diligently to help humanity at their own expense. This is not what would be expected of GRRM.

 

 

Great catch, interesting to read.

 

[Karneol]

12 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Reminds me of Euron

 

Reread this yesterday and was instantly reminded of this thread.

On 5/10/2019 at 12:40 AM, White Night said:

It seems also highly probably that Patchface was also approached by Bloodraven when he drowned in the sea, which explains some of his strange statements. Under the sea seems to be a reference to his near-death experience because that is where he actually was when he experienced those dreams/visions.

What bout Euron beeing also approached by Bloodraven because he also has GS abilities? What about both don't answer this call and abusing or ignoring their abilities?

[dialt]

19 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

I think Leaf and the rest of the CotF are dead. Bloodraven is warged into zombie Leaf and moving her vocal cords to talk.

If Bran can warg into Hodor and make him say "Hodor" ... mind controlled zombies can talk too!

I don't know if she's dead, but....  you can be right, somehow.

There's definitely something weird...

I do not remember the exact quote, but what we learn in that chapter is also that the COTF speak the tongue of ravens/crows - and vice versa - because they use to skinchange into them.

So how did she learn to speak the tongue of men? Skinchanging... into a human body?
Or the contrary, maybe? 

That said, I am currently working on an essay about the 5 prologues.
In short I believe that some themes and entries are "recurrent". That one may find them in every prologue and that if so, it is done purpose to oreshadow the endgame and/or hide clues about the main misteries of the serie.

One of those is precisely the idea of other languages, that men do or do not understand/speak and creatures speak/cannot speak.

I also believe that is tied somehow (but how and why?) to AGOT Bran I, and what Nedd says "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die"

[The Map Guy]

On 5/10/2019 at 2:39 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Keep an eye on that Snowy Locks. That's a shady one, all right.

Yea I think Snowy Locks is the worst one too, just by her name. 

 

On 5/11/2019 at 8:02 AM, lalt said:

I do not remember the exact quote, but what we learn in that chapter is also that the COTF speak the tongue of ravens/crows - and vice versa - because they use to skinchange into them.

Don't believe anything they say. They are all liars! I'm sure that Bloodraven wargs back and forth between Coldhands & Leaf. He can only do it one at a time.

On 5/11/2019 at 8:02 AM, lalt said:

That said, I am currently working on an essay about the 5 prologues.
In short I believe that some themes and entries are "recurrent". That one may find them in every prologue and that if so, it is done purpose to oreshadow the endgame and/or hide clues about the main misteries of the serie.

Would love to read it. I am sure a lot of the stories in ASOIAF are recycled stories of one another. Once everything is said and done, we will see a bunch of parallels between completed stories and characters.

[Pontius Pilate]

Her wandering was spying.  Know thine enemy.  Now they know how to spark war between the houses.

[Seams]

On 5/11/2019 at 8:02 AM, lalt said:

One of those is precisely the idea of other languages, that men do or do not understand/speak and creatures speak/cannot speak.

I also believe that is tied somehow (but how and why?) to AGOT Bran I, and what Nedd says "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.

I love this! I look forward to reading your essay.

I was recently wondering about the "dark wings, dark words" proverb and its connection to swing / sword wordplay. If dark words come from dark wings, do dark swords come from dark swings? Or vice versa? 

We know of at least one dark sword: Dark Sister. 

And I bet "swings" -- dark swings, in particular -- can refer to a hangman's noose as well as a sword swing. Maybe any kind of capital punishment?

What else can swing? A door swinging open or shut?

But I digress. Our current topic is the character Leaf.

On 5/11/2019 at 8:02 AM, lalt said:

... the COTF speak the tongue of ravens/crows - and vice versa - because they use to skinchange into them.

This seems like a key observation. GRRM doesn't want to put in talking animals or fauns with parcels and an umbrella and cross the line into cute and whimsical. So he gets that animal pov by giving us humans or humanoid characters who have special powers to become or understand animals, trees, stone, etc. These characters often have qualities that immediately dispel the possibility of cute: Bran likes the taste of blood when Summer eats raw flesh; a wolf's head is sewn onto the neck of a murdered man; Arya uses a cat for spying as part of her assassin training; Dany's dragons steal sheep and eat a human girl; stone men carry disease. 

In other cases the "animal pov" comes through the actions of characters associated with a certain sigil: I'm afraid we need to keep a close watch on characters associated with the Crakehall boar, for instance. Littlefinger's choice of a mockingbird symbol is not a random association. Further information comes from nicknamed characters: the Hound, the Stallion that Mounts the World, the Old Bear, the Red Viper. 

So what is the meaning of Leaf? As others have pointed out, some kind of tree POV. But also that raven / crow association. An early Catelyn POV told us that ravens can fly back and forth through the door between life and death. (Crones can peer through that door.) So skinchanging a raven might give a being the power to communicate with the dead or to facilitate rebirth. 

I believe trees may BE the doors between life and death. (Or, at least, one version of that door.) We see certain characters climb trees (Will in the AGoT prologue, watches from a tree as Ser Waymar gets iced; Arya practices with her wood sword in the branches of a tree; Wex Pyke climbs a tree and is able to see Rickon and Osha leaving Winterfell; Bran tries to get warged Summer to run up the trunk of a fallen, leaning tree in the gods wood, but the wolf is unable to complete the task) and others are hanged on trees. I guess being hanged from a tree is a one-way trip through that door between life and death. (And that ties into the swing / sword and wings / words wordplay again.) I don't remember Jon Snow climbing a tree, but he dreams of a tree growing at the Milkwater and sees his brother in it (usually people assume the brother is Bran, but he is never named). Jon also encounters the heart tree at the wildling village White Tree, which is Craster's home town. A hollow in the tree trunk contains burned human skulls.

The three main parts of a tree may be significant to the notion of the door between life and death: roots below the earth, like a crypt or grave; the trunk in the human realm and the branches and leaves in the world of ... what? Air? Magic? Snow? Rain? Flight? Nesting and perching birds? All of the above? Should there be four categories with branches and leaves separate? Do we treat stumps differently from trunks? Jaime has a special dream when he rests his head on a weirwood bole one night. And I almost forgot! Seeds. Very important. (The seed is strong. Bran's weirwood paste is made from seeds.) And that requires us to think about fruit and nuts. Tyrion steps over a burning log when he uses the secret passage through the fireplace to reach Tywin and (to his surprise) Shea in the Tower of the Hand. The potential symbols keep coming. 

This leads to complex symbols such as the House Blackwood heart tree that is dead and that fills with ravens who roost there every night. Bloodraven comes (in part) from this House as his mother was Missy Blackwood. Roots, trunk and branches but no leaves and (apparently) no life.

Another path toward understanding the purpose of Leaf might be to examine other leaves in the text:

• Dany's Shade of the Evening drink is made from the blue leaves of black-barked trees. 
• The Brotherhood without Banners takes Arya to see a woman called the Lady of the Leaves who believes that Ser Beric Dondarrion is dead and rejoices when they tell her he has revived. She and her followers live secretly in trees but have to move elsewhere in winter when the leaves will fall.
• Are the pages of a book another form of leaf? If so, what does the burning of the Winterfell library symbolize? Or Joffrey's destruction of a valuable book with his new sword? Or Roose burning a book and letters at Harrenhal? 
• Arya puts rushes on the floor of Roose Bolton's chamber at Harrenhal. Do rushes fall into the same category as leaves? Or are they closer to grasses, which are associated with Dany and Ser Jorah in the Dothraki Sea?
• Catelyn refers to the humus on the ground in the gods wood at Winterfell. This is the term for decaying organic matter that forms from layers of rotting leaves over many years; it nourishes soil in the manner of compost in a garden. It's interesting to contrast that with hummus, which is a paste made from beans (chick peas). Kind of like Bran's weirwood paste?

Of course I have to return to another old bit of wordplay: "leaf" and "flea". I believe GRRM wants us to compare Flea Bottom with a forest and/or the land of the Children of the Forest. There aren't a lot of trees in Flea Bottom, but the forge of Tobho Mott is located there and may be a different kind of doorway between or among realms. (The doors of Mott's shop are weirwood and ebony, I believe, like the House of Black and White.) If you are at all open to anagrams, possibilities such as "Tobho Mott = hot bottom" or "to hot tomb" and "Flea Bottom = leaf to tomb" seem to evoke an idea similar to the idea of trees crossing worlds - below the earth, on the earth and in the air; life and death.

As I mentioned when listing Jaime's weirwood dream, above, "bole" is another word for a tree trunk. In Flea Bottom, the common food is a "bowl of brown," and it can contain mystery meats ranging from pigeon to human flesh. Tyrion directs Bronn to kill Symon Silvertongue and suggests disposing of his body in a pot shop in Flea Bottom, leading to Tyrion's later claim to be the cook for Singer Stew. Since the CotF call themselves Singers, this seems like another leaf / flea parallel. 

The op poses the question of whether the CotF have an evil agenda or just some kind of hidden agenda. The author seems to take pains to discourage us from thinking in terms of good and evil. (Or he leads us into a trap where we think we have correctly identified who is good and who is evil, only to discover that apparent evil behavior was motivated by a larger good.) I think the CotF may still be trying to get rid of Andal rule; to return to rule by the First Men. (Possible anagram: "The Bran Boy = Throne Baby.") Is this evil? Only if you support the Andal heir(s) or the Seven Gods. Won't the CotF be surprised if they think they are helping to overthrow the Andals but are instead stoking the fires of the Red God, whose priestess burns humans and weirwoods as well as the masts made into likenesses of the new gods. Out of the Freya and Pan, into the fire. 

[White Night]

13 hours ago, Centurion Piso said:

Her wandering was spying.  Know thine enemy.  Now they know how to spark war between the houses.

True.